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Oct 27 12 9:04 PM

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These two articles were "placed" in the Romanian Press by the Owners of Studio 20 as part of a PR campaign to improve the image of the Cam-Models by "telling the truth.." Oh Well..
UL

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VIDEOCHAT: How wealthy can you become by undressing during a crisis?

The Most sexy and rich "computer operators"

February 22, 2011

20642 views
"Members are people who are tired of their wives and want to relax, to see something beautiful. In their minds, the girls from the internet are perfect. To make his clients should note, for example, that one of they have a dog whose name is Jim. "
Andreea
responsible HR Pro Studio
While most young people can hardly find a better paid job, those who agree to give up clothes in front of strangers on the internet earn money to make them forget about modesty. After a tour of the major studios in the capital videochat, I learned that there are places that encourage illegal activities, such as working from home or the couple, but that, in most cases, videochat is a profession like any other, with program shift, regulations, incentives, teambuilding and penalties.


"You have talent as an actress, you open challenges? This is your chance. Videochat hire you as a performer. We do not lie, we care, guaranteed minimum wage can reach 500 euros to 4,000 euros, paid fortnightly, legality 100% flexible ".

Sounds like an ad for a studio videochat job. Internet find hundreds, so you have a choice. All internet and job highlights: a model wearing videochat chat online with strangers in front of a webcam for the provider, upon request, various erotic shows. Employment requirements unproblematic: You must be over 18 years and know English at beginner level.

Customers are American sites and pay a fee per minute - between 1.99 and 6 euros - to speak in private with the girls. Each model can determine the price at this time. The total amount you collect these sites, 30% is studio. Half of this percentage lies model.
We decide to try our luck at three studios, as reporters undercover to see what is hidden behind a job that apparently gives you a substantial gain in economic crisis.

Computer Operator undercover

First on the list is Videochat Bucharest, located in a house near the ASE, opposite the Church of the Assumption. We do not know whether God approves of this activity, but preventing pornography law, location of videochat studios at a distance less than 250 meters from schools or places of worship is prohibited.

We welcome Anca, a young woman of 27 years in charge of recruiting virtual geisha who ask us to fill out a questionnaire with questions about experience, knowledge of foreign languages, health and personality. Question: "Accept the legal work?".


We find that after the first three months working on service contract "if the job suits us" we draw up a contract of employment for the post of "computer operator".
We must work in shifts of eight hours, five days a week. There is no fixed salary, working on commission: get 50% of the money it receives from the studio of our performance. "In the first month you can earn 12-14 million, but as you gain experience, and reach 50 million," invites us Anca.

"When you start webcam, you're a character"

"In times of crisis, non-adult version of video, or just a conversation with members on various topics, it is not profitable, why not practiced. Conversation and make adult version but need to do and an erotic show" explains Anca.
There is a free chat where you can see all the customers and not allowed to sit naked, just talk to them, convince them to enter the private chat. "Then it's up to you. Webcam When you start a character," says Anca.


Dance, strip out or use sex toys. The studio offers to suit your order, you can pay them in installments. If you want to earn more, you have to do to please members. Anca warns us that there are some rules and in private: "no perversions, food and feed."

To make money is better to be sociable, talk to as many users and make your loyal customers. But you should never change their personal data to that site administrators will close your account and will penalize studio.


So you can start working you must have a fictitious profile, with a brief description and photos, for which you get a photo shoot at the studio. Three held sensual - a bathing suit, a dress, a lingerie Suit-sufficient.
Sites can not be accessed from Romania, so members can not find. "We should not be afraid, your computer can not jump on you," reassures us Anca.

"We are not porn, just entertainment"

The second interview. Pro Studio, Stefan cel Mare area. A villa with 22 rooms and 70 girls involved, some even working there for four years.
We welcome Andrea, responsible for human resources. We say that the studio is working with ten sites soft, so it will have to accept pleas members who want to see perversions. "Remember, do not porn, just entertainment," says Barbara.

"Members are people who are tired of their wives and want to relax, to see something beautiful. In their minds, the girls from the internet are perfect. To make his clients should note, for example, that one of they have a dog whose name is Jim. "
Andreea
responsible HR Pro Studio


"Members are people who are tired of their wives and want to relax, to see something beautiful. In their minds, the girls from the internet are perfect. To make his clients should note, for example, that one of they have a dog whose name is Jim, "she advises.
Everything seems legitimate, we are assured that the company says all we need to record revenues and contracts administration.

"How are you, horny?"

We meet and Georgiana responsible for training new employees. She worked as a model, but now only helps the girls - even to type lines in their place, and they just make the show. But conversations are not very complicated, most starting with "How are you, horny?" or "Where are you from, horny?".


How talk to the trainer, Elena comes from a room, one of the girls who work at Pro Studio for a month and a half. He won the first period only five million, and the next, reached 20. "At first it's hard, but if you keep the job you money," says excited.

Real estate web design and videochat

The third stop. Ardiente Studio is located in a block of Alba Iulia Square, behind a door that says "DML Business Group LLC".
Opens himself the owner, Dan, who complain that I called an hour onwards, to have time for cleaning. I wonder why the door is written "Ardiente Studio" and says it has more companies dealing with real estate, web design, and video chat. To make sure that everything is legal and framed on the wall recording from the Trade Registry, and we can see.


"I have to shady, but I understand if you are afraid because I've heard all sorts of stories. One of the girls who worked for us was seized from a studio in the Union, another worked on a video chat from Piata Romana where there is a library of vibrators, used jointly by girls, "says Dan.

Teambuilding paid by studio

Dan has an ace up its sleeve: the studio that sponsors and organizes teambuilding offering performance bonuses. This summer, the team went to great three days, the costs are borne by employers. In addition, if girls are more than $ 2,000 in two weeks, receiving incentives: a session at the hairdresser, massage or a subscription to the gym.


All girls have an employment contract that receive the minimum wage for age and medical insurance. Models can even take credit. "Let six months before, to increase the card wage labor, so to get approval from the bank," assures Dan.
There are just bonuses and penalties but mostly about ignoring hygiene rules: keyboard and mouse wipe with alcohol both before and after working hours, the dishes must be washed after use, and the studio is going only slippers. Other penalties get if you go on YouTube or Messenger, if you late for work or missing without notice.

Legislation in Romania

Videochat activity is regulated by Law 196/2003 on preventing and combating pornography, supplemented by Law 496/2004. Activity is permitted as long as no harm dignity, the decency and public morality.


The carrying erotic demonstrations in other areas than those arranged and approved by the National Regulatory Authority for Communications and Information Technology. Therefore encourages studios and pay work home commit a crime. As torque and work illegally. In addition, pornographic sites have passwords and access allowed adults only after a fee is charged per minute.

What risks are exposed to models

Videochat studios existed for more than 10 years, and unofficial figures show that in Romania there are several thousand such places. Most are open in university centers, because over 50% of the models are students. However, there is no official statistics on the number of young people who work in this industry.


In the "golden age of videochat" between 2002 and 2006, a good model can earn $ 10,000 per month. Now profit decreased considerably. However, for 4,000 euros per month, but can make models currently, more and more girls are willing to take risks "job" attach the studio, threats, sexual advances or refusal by employers pay wages.


"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

Last Edited By: UncleLewis Oct 27 12 9:12 PM. Edited 2 times

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#1 [url]

Oct 27 12 9:06 PM

posted on June 5, 2011
CanCan/Showbiz/Internal Showbiz

Videochat, springboard to the stars

Unemployment, low wages, job insecurity and rising prices push young people to jobs that do not agree or are undervalued. But a job to us is still bad saw gains more ground and it becomes legally be happy more and more girls. Among them, Andreea Popescu and Marina Dina, two artists who practiced this profession.

Videochat, springboard to the stars
Even if people are still suspicious of videochat, assimilating it with pornography and illegal, the firms that have such a range of activities and operating for several years are satisfied. "When we talk of video we like bears to honey: if you do not get the jar is easier to comment negatively about it. In reality it is a job like any other.

Has a program, salary, bonuses , rules. It can be adult or non-adult character and a thousand shades between the two extremes, "said one of the representatives Pro Studio, one of the companies working in the field. He agrees that negative reputation videochat appeared by hundreds of illegal studio apartments unsanitary and black employees.

"When we speak of a job 100% legal, as in any country in Western Europe or North America. November we had the last two years over ten controls from NAFA Economic and Financial Guard or we have not received even a One fine! And if talk of morality , then put in the balance and pay 3,500 lei per month , plus bonuses that come and £ 10,000 or more! flexible or program that allows students to work full time. Know an offer similar to the other field legal? "asks rhetorically managers Pro Studio. As if their girls are willing are able to do including a virtual tour of the firm or chat with people working there for years, very good conditions.

Moreover, videochat was a ramp launch for Andreea Popescu, dancer and former lover Delia's Michael Bendeac . She recognized without any problem that this job helped. As did Marina Dina, who won extra money called Maya, then came assistant TV, the show "Wicked, give 'good'.

Author: Alex Cristea

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#2 [url]

Oct 27 12 9:19 PM




Why we are the best in the videochat?

http://www.studio20.ro/modele-castiguri-22

Here's proof that Studio20 is the market leader in Romania. In the following we will argue in detail why STUDIO20 is the best, why STUDIO20 is number 1 in Romania, higher than the competition!

First, it is management. This studio is designed for 2 people, 2 real professionals, professionals who currently are the oldest people in the industry in Romania. November I entered the industry 12 years ago. I do not know if counting currently 5 people in Romania who are VideoChat for 12 years.

I started the modern videochat by elements of originality and excellence which have been copied, adapted and used the entire market.

These elements include:

  1. 1. Scenery - we were the first in Romania to have used wallpaper and photo wallpaper, at a time when all industry backgrounds using satin, cotton and similar materials;
  2. 2. Revenue laws - we were the first we assumed and we said all proceeds ( Top Business Diploma ) while the entire market with offshore work sites and black money;
  3. 3. Contracts with models: I was the first studio who completed model form of contract, legal and viable (commission contract then) declares its agreement whereby all revenue models, contract made ​​their collections evidence that many models were able to access credit to buy a house under that contract. What was important was that those contracts was recorded at accounting and abideth not registered anywhere that has worked in the industry (such as books remained at work);
  4. 4. Truth - we were the first who tried to give a positive image videochat site, press the emisuni standing prime and telling the truth ( Romania, I love you ) and in print ( Romania Libera , Cancan );
  5. 5. Superior conditions - we were the first to offer comfort, great comfort models, as you see in photos and videos with our studio.

And the story would go on forever if I made ​​mention everything new in videochat. This is because we continue to be first today, and we promise to do it tomorrow.

Why are we today pioneers? These lines come testify that we put another brick in the videochat modernization. We have created a business climate in this industry really after us ing rules guiding management in company with a chart. Having a well defined company departments and trainuite (HR, marketing, technical, managers, training and so on), I managed to make the models feel when they come to our studio feels the same thing every man who works in a multinational in a club in a bank. In other words we were able to help them perceive the job as a normal job.

We will be the first in the industry to get real testimonials from our models. You to document online at all studios and let us know if there is at this time a studio that site or have posted his interview with models interviews in which models speak with pride about the achievements from this job. I am convinced that you will waste your time and you will not find these testimonials, and are equally convinced that if you look over 1-2 years, absolutely all sites will Testimonials models profile.

This is proof of the fact that all copies and that our industry is good, because we are at the forefront in the process of modernization and normalization videochat site, an area which is regarded as normal and worldwide however stated so hard in Romania.

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#3 [url]

Apr 8 15 4:48 PM

the press and media, even they used it for advertising, brought them more bad than good. Models showing on TV what fancy cars they drive, what expensive houses they live in, while other categories are low payed, made the authorities to check them out and they have problems now. I always said it is better to be low profile, of course, at the level of a studio with over 1000 models, it's hard to be discrete.

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headcleaner

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#4 [url]

Apr 28 15 12:54 PM

The best of what ?
Training girls to became "friends" with suckers they ripp off day after day while sites are sensed to provide sexual interactions and forbid any personnal relations !?
http://www.businesscover.ro/un-investitor-roman-vrea-sa-aduca-industria-de-100-mil-euro-videochat-ului-legalitate/
Doing narrow surveillance of the camgirls scamming under their eyes but encouraging personnal e.mails or phone calls instead of having a citizen and responsible reaction !?

Or waiting the moment when the relation between the client and the girl starts inflaming, moment which is the right one to change orders and open a "psychological violence rush" based on humiliations and insults !? Coz at the end, this is what happens : first an institutionnal scam, second an institutionnal harassment.

The best of what except a conspiracy to defraud and its "extended crimes" ?

 

Last Edited By: headcleaner Apr 28 15 6:37 PM. Edited 1 time.

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#5 [url]

Apr 29 15 12:46 PM

Heartbreak Hospice.

Hello headcleaner.  What can I say? "I feel your pain?"  I doubt that would help. However if your look at the hundreds of posts starting with "A Wanker's Tale," we have tried to provide a space where clients could talk about the heartache they experienced when their long distance love-affair with some young model they met online turned out to be a commercial transaction that would last as long as their credit line. At the same time, we have a great many cam-model members who came here to volunteer as "Model e-knights"  andwho spent hours trying to talk some poor guy down from the romantic day-dream that was ruining his chance of finding happiness IRL - in real life. 


But that wasn't what motivated us originally. We came here to find the evidence that the cam industry was a front for the Russian Mafia and that most cam-models were trapped in lives of exploitation and virtual slavery. While we did find some evidence that supported that belief, we also found a lot of evidence that didn't.. As I have said many times, most cam models come on line to "make bank," and in the hope of earning many times the going minimum wage in their country - be it Arizona or Ukraine.  They work with their studio owners or web master as partners in a commercial business where they are "sexual entrepreneurs" giving sex shows and companionship to clients under conditions of greater safety and security than in traditional sex work.  And of course they "don't just do it for the money...They do it for a shit-load of money.."  But that doesn't work out as planned all too often.

They don't do it because they are evil people. Often they feel guilty about manipulating the feelings of their clients, but they do it anyway, because it's their least bad choice in a labour market that only offers low wage temp work - and where their university degrees are worthless.  They also do it because they do it so well, and because;  "people will believe the most amazing things."
What can I say?  Read the testimony that people have given here..hundreds of times over the past decade.. But don't think for a minute that we are partners with the people who run this global business. We're here to map the network and to reveal the tricks of the trade and warn off the newbies of the risks they run - be they models or clients.

UL
Meanwhile..This is what they think about it..

I have the pussy! I make the rules!

do u agree with her ??? on Twitpic

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

Last Edited By: UncleLewis Apr 30 15 4:23 PM. Edited 3 times.

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headcleaner

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#6 [url]

Apr 30 15 1:55 AM

Hello UL

As a starter, i would like thank you for your replies - be here or on the this topix forum has been discontinued. You shed my light about both what motivated you and what you actually do here, or rather you convinced me your personnal approach is sincere.
I must confess i'm still sceptic about the purpose "to map the network and to reveal the tricks of the trade and warn off the newbies of the risks they run - be they models or clients". That's the reason why i stayed in a reader role since december 2010 when i found out your forums for the first time. And the fact you titled your reply "Heartbreak Hospice" confirms my scepticism, makes clear you underestimate what are my own motivations, statements and purposes. First because you're a foot in that field by a manner, second because you can't know i have gone beyond that state for years now.
Your "They don't do it because they are evil people. Often they feel guilty about manipulating the feelings of their clients, but they do it anyway, because it's their least bad choice in a labour market that only offers low wage temp work - and where their university degrees are worthless.  They also do it because they do it so well, and because;  "people will believe the most amazing things." illustrates well the "model centred" vision which makes me uneasy.
Because my vision is your words are actually a legitimation of that manipulation, moreover justified by an unfavorable economic context. This is how I always percieved CGN, and why I prefered to post on the thread called Romanian cam girls on Topix three years ago, coz that place made me the feeling to be more "client oriented" than CGN. Maybe i should not have made the step to subscibe here at the end, but the thread's discontinuation last january 2015 drove my decision.

As a sign of my respect of what you do here, i'll try to limit my speeches to the topic i started - this topix forum has been discontinued - where I'll suggest another way to consider the "client experience", as long as i'll handle with probable disaggreements i'll get as reactions.
Sincerly yours.



 

Last Edited By: headcleaner Apr 30 15 2:12 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#7 [url]

Apr 30 15 2:59 AM

Yes headcleanerand UL for that matter, no matter what, everyone in this world of cam gets burned in some way. Some more than others, but everyone does. Even those with the best of intentions, or the highest standards, have themselves changed for the worst in some manner. A number of the reasons for these ill effects for both member/customer and for models, you pointed out very clearly. The intentional chaotic system at studios and lack of full information from the beginning for both, is enough alone to facilitate abuse to both.

I was also following that and other topix threads, it seemed burned members/customers were mostly abused there by other posters. Here you might get a reaction, but no one ever really wants to put others down. Although I might owe an apology for a rude word or two, but also......

my highest respect and regards to you, in reply to your latest post to UL.

"I am very little inclined on any occasion to say anything unless I hope to produce some good by it."
Abraham Lincoln

"I was mute with silence, I held my peace from good; and my sorrow was stirred up."
Psalm 39:2

There is what one knows, there is what one knows they don't know, and there is what one does not know what they do not know.
(mis-quote from an arrogant and dangerous fool, who had at least these wise words to say, if he had only used them to guide his actions)

Last Edited By: noname01 Apr 30 15 3:16 AM. Edited 4 times.

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#8 [url]

Apr 30 15 2:36 PM

CGN may be made up of Vindictive Losers, Subversive E-Knights and Sneaky Trolls - but not really Web-Pimp Fanboys.

Headliner, What you have said about CGN being "Model Centered" is very debatable, to say the least. On the models forums, CGN was known for being a client forum made up of Angry, Frustrated Vindictive Losers who spent their time tearing models down as manipulative vixens. Or we are known as a gang of "e-knights" riding to their rescue who end up undermining Models' sense of self-esteem and professional achievement by constantly promoting a "victim vibe" that presented them as the "victims" of abusive bosses, aggressive clients or sneaky pirates -instead of seeing them for the successful Entrepreneurs "who got this down" that they were.. Lastly we have been accused of "trolling our own members" by trying to collect information and testimony on the global reach of the studio system..
So allow me to say you wouldn't be the first person to be unhappy with what we do here, and you won't be the last..
UL

See Below.

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

Last Edited By: UncleLewis Apr 30 15 4:21 PM. Edited 4 times.

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#9 [url]

Apr 30 15 4:27 PM

UL

The quote is from an actress, playing a role, a fantasy. LOL

Worst of all, the words were probably even written by a writer who is a man.

But not unlike the subjects herein making the same type of statements, the difference between reality and fantasy is a thin line that intersects more than any of us realize.

I'd rather hear those as honest words from a real woman, in a direct statement to a man, or a woman.

"I am very little inclined on any occasion to say anything unless I hope to produce some good by it."
Abraham Lincoln

"I was mute with silence, I held my peace from good; and my sorrow was stirred up."
Psalm 39:2

There is what one knows, there is what one knows they don't know, and there is what one does not know what they do not know.
(mis-quote from an arrogant and dangerous fool, who had at least these wise words to say, if he had only used them to guide his actions)

Last Edited By: noname01 Apr 30 15 4:36 PM. Edited 2 times.

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headcleaner

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#10 [url]

May 3 15 6:44 PM

UL
What i said was "i always percieved CGN like (...)", i didn't asset it as an indicutable truth, then that part of my post wasn't matter of debate.
As i however wrote on another topic, you created a diversion. Coz what's not debatable is you actually legitimated scam, justifying it by economic pressure.

Allow me a first analogy with drug dealers or bank robbers who grew up in impovered areas with that question : Do they benefit any immunity motivated by their living conditions ?
In the same way with poeple you call "vindicative losers" in case of vengence : Do they benefit any immunity in the name of their material and psychological harm ?

Ofc no. Sometimes circumstances explain an act without even being mitigating factors, sometimes they are simply proved to be the crimes motivations.
But criminality is always a choice.


 

Last Edited By: headcleaner May 4 15 4:51 AM. Edited 4 times.

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#11 [url]

May 4 15 1:37 PM

Meeting in Real Life

Scam? As in "Breach of Promise"? I think that if you look at most models' profile pages, you will see they usually go to great lengths to let members know that they will never meet them in real life. In other words, that they're not looking for a boy-friend, or available as an escort for prostitution, etc. etc. Of course, if you look at the Web-site rule books that we have posted here, it becomes clear that most web-sites sanction models severely for exchanging personal contact information with clients, or promising to meet them in real life. They do this because they don't want their girls contacting their clients directly off site as independent agents who have cut out the web-pimp middle man. There's a commercial logic at work here about customer contact that most web-sites seem to follow - with the exception of Myfreecams. 

At the same time, Cam-girls are encouraged to talk a lot about "friendship" with clients which is about as real as being somebody's Facebook Friend. As one model put it on SW: "Men are like little puppies who have to be carefully trained to understand that their money = my time."  Needless to say, you can find that quote, and lots like it, in "The Quote of the Day." It was not meant as encouragement to clients to waste their time and money looking for anything else on these web-sites other than the opportunity to pay a "fap tax" of $5 a minute in order to give THEMSELVES a hand-job...But for most wankers that might be enough to make them "fanboys" of some Romanian Cyber-Sex Goddess for life..or until their credit card is maxed out.

What to do in private? "MAKE THEM FALL IN LOVE WITH YOU.." lol
EB

QUOTE


Is there any cam site I can go on, make money, and not be nude?

    
QUOTE
Originally Posted by sxxxxxx 
    What site do you use? & what do you do in private? That's what I'm most nervous about, I feel like I would be all awkward because of my nervousness haha

Dude. I don't know. You can probably use any site. If you are young and cute, and can commit to 4+ days per week on cam, try MFC. If you are anything else, try Streamate. I can't vouch for the traffic anywhere else. You really just have to get out there and try something.

What do you do in private? You MAKE THEM FALL IN LOVE WITH YOU. Engage with your viewer, and everything will fall into place.


You're nervous about being awkward? Guess what... you WILL be awkward for a while. You will probably lose a few viewers because of it. You will fuck up sometimes. You will go mute sometimes. You will hate your viewer, panic, and turn off your computer sometimes. We've all been there, that's normal. Welcome to the world of 'trying new shit'. ;-

Needless to say, it's this kind of quote that makes CGN such a good friend to the industry.. n'est ce pas?
UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

Last Edited By: UncleLewis May 4 15 3:38 PM. Edited 8 times.

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headcleaner

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Posts: 41

#12 [url]

May 4 15 3:53 PM

Sites rules you invoke are not applied.
Le me start by telling personal contact informations are given by the girls to clients who obviously don't "guess" theses informations. The girls do it coz they are trained for that as loyalty programs, because no business can make profits whithout clients loyalty. No "sexual stuff" and only sexual stuff need and "friendship" - even just as a Facebook's meaning (do notice FB friends are generally "real life friends" for most of poeple).

Having told that, i never said every camgirls were scammers. I just state that industry is organised to stay unpunished in case of scams, you would recognize it isn't exactly the same assumtion. Then i don't need replies drawing attention on "most of girls". My point is scamming girls, with that again too much rare position consiting to shame the whole value chain as it's called in strategic management, not only the link of that chain who's the girl. Some of theses girls are arranging meetings with their clients, it is an established fact, no need to remind most of them don't.

I don't need any digression about "most of girls", "sites rules", or any else considerations like "privacy rights". My point / case is only about scamming camgirls arranging meetings with their clients in purpose of being more wealthy again (ironicle or cynical ?)... a compromissing situation which ask many questions about the pretended 100 % legal propaganda usually spread, more again considering everything is under narrow admins control both on sites and studios sides, worst being aware no legal action can have a chance in the total "anonymosity" reigning in that field, as well as a strong impunity fragrance is dispensed by air.

But i must thank you for still giving ammunitions to me by continuing to point mislead clients as wankers.
Coz you're the only one to believe it doesn't make the forum you're the admin a "model oriented one" (and be sure i moderate my own words).





 

Last Edited By: headcleaner May 4 15 8:09 PM. Edited 3 times.

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#14 [url]

May 9 15 1:26 PM

Headcleaner, I don't know if you have noticed, but this forum ceased to be a forum where cam-models or studio admins are active about four years ago.  It has continued on more as an observatory of the global sex industry - and increasingly the Anti-Trafficking abolitionist movement - than anything else. If you want to engage active models - other than our member cam-girl - then why not try your luck on Stripper web's "camming connection" or Ambercuties forum?? Chances are that you will encounter lots of "smart bitches" there who will be more than happy to hand you your head on a plate and "give you a run for your money.."  Don't say that you weren't warned, but if you want to debate active sex workers that's the place to do it.

UL
P.S. Our Web-master Slider is French..as are some of our founding members, so it made sense to move to a French host.

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

Last Edited By: UncleLewis May 9 15 1:54 PM. Edited 2 times.

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headcleaner

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#15 [url]

May 9 15 8:08 PM

UL

I don't know if you have noticed, but i don't believe a second your cam-models and studio admins here are inactive.
And i prefer to consider your insinuation about my intention to engage girls as a bad joke (provocation ?), given each one of my posts is the evidence i'm looking for the studio's owner(s) and admin(s) who employed the camgirl who ripped me off (among various other charges also argued). Given each one of my posts is an advocacy against the protagonists of my affair, of every analogous "scams" involving videochat players.

That said, i won't blame CGN historical members for their commitment in the Anti-Trafficking abolitionist movement "counter-attack". I understand better than you imagine what are sex working human rights issues, be they defense or promotion, whatever the intervention domains. As well i know how two civil society movments founded on opposite vision and statements can't find any common ground.
Better than you imagine, i insist, I'd say especially in that context of non-consensuel cause facing all sort of moralisms and obscurantisms.

Just don't expect i allow anybody to cheat poeple about what happens on videchat. Don't expect i'll allow anybody to justify it's scams and violence reign.
Not even in the name of sex working human rights action. Less again in that name.
However, don't belive i want it's "abolition". I just say that business won't reach it's ethical mutation as long as ghost companies will run sites, studios will stay kept safe from public eyes, and camgirls locations will remain uncertain.

Don't say that you weren't warned.

PS : I would regarding the word observatory better talk about informal online forum, because i'm on my side rather formal than obtuse like you said. About human and social sciences research, let me remind you you didn't answer my questions.

Last Edited By: headcleaner May 9 15 9:14 PM. Edited 7 times.

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#16 [url]

May 9 15 9:37 PM

Engage as in debate.. And the only model who's active here is camgirl. No admins.

If you want to talk about the industry or share information that you have found, you're welcome to do it here.
But there's nobody here who represents the industry tel quel. For that you must look elsewhere.. 
Stripper web; AmberCutie's forum, or the Romanian web-forums like chat-live.
We quote from them here.
UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

Last Edited By: UncleLewis May 10 15 1:47 PM. Edited 2 times.

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headcleaner

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#17 [url]

May 10 15 3:37 AM

UL

I think i probably impugned you motives you haven't in two or three posts, then accept my apolgizes if applicable.

I nevertheless read some of your chats with "smart bitches" on Stripper web or Ambercutie and i have no doubts that if you couldn't find a common ground with them yourself about common issues, my chances to open a dialogue with them are clearly near to zero !!! BTW, my own "quest" being Romanian, possible i'll "fight" with poeple on Chat-live a next day ? But it wouldn't change the result : replies telling i should act like a grown up man after a sentimental scam, while i wrote many time the charge is at least a conspiracy to defraud. Bad faith vs body of evidences.

Every one having a dark past know perfectly there are two types of irremediable liars : junkies and bitches. As an ex alcholic, i've been a junkie. I'm cured, because i among other things did the required introspection work which let me free. The deep truth is theses girls are also addicts, cheated by a ditorted vision of being ladies and having reached a professional success, overshadowing that success is based on a polymorphic manipulation they are victims themselves.. I wait the moment when scammers in the field will do the same work instead of insulting their "vindicative frustraded victims who should better learn to enjoy life".
This the condition for their self esteem recovery, and it has nothing to do with the sexual nature of their job, too much often percieved beeing the stigma, stigma itseelf being denounced as their self esteem trouble. In other words, they feel bad coz they lie to themselves, not coz they are sexworkers.

They lie to themselves by refusing they are money addicted, this is of course the motive of their crime in case of ripp off. They also lie to themselves by believing their clients are guilts by naïvity. That naïvity is in fact their opportunity, while their organisation offers them a mean (be that organisation a website or a studio). And the formula motive plus opportunity plus mean equals crime. It works actually even if independant camgirls are in direct contract with sites, because according your own words, no admins control them, what makes site's rules can't be applied. It could also work in another situation of which i'm not concerned, lest well i must say : escorts providing sex through sites and lying to their clients about their feeling for them in order to get extra money. As camgirls as escorts are explicitely selling sex on their profiles, not an accompanionshift. That accompanionshift can't justify that money if a emotional blackmailing based on lies influence(d) the client's decision. The manipulation is ofc easier to prove if repetitive emails, instant messagers or phone messages are kept. I'm already hering the famous objection "but clients gave/sent money on their own initiative"... I just reply then why multiplying proceedings obstacles ? It presumes more a premeditation than an inncocence... I recognize the "escort case" is less obvious, also because clients of theses services are more careful to preserve their reputation or simply more financially secure.

BTW, This is a difference between sexworkers human right defenders and me. They (you) plead for sex working standardization and professionalisation, i plead for sex workers release. Not coz they are slaves of men tyrany as anti-traficking or prostitution abolitionnists do claim, but slaves of their own perception of what's real life, of what are core and basic values like integrity. I don't remember what artist said in interview something like "poeple shouldn't do anything they can't talk about having a drink between friends". This is one of my points, another motivation why I spread heavily this criminalization message : in order to help scammers in particular to realize what they actually do, not what they imagine doing. In a comparable way with my own past when i imagined being able to stop drinking without help, i got used to believe i was not ill, i was lying to myself by denying i didn't make harm in my family environnment, close circle or neighboohood.

By consequences, i can't delight camgirls come as volunteers to chear up "poor guys" as you wrote. Theses girls are not therapists, unlikely they somethimes say while they obviously make more harm than good. There are actually other key points founding my advocay. Scams are the fact of a long pervert narcicssic manipulation which is the reflect of the girls personnailty, still little capricious and untutored children, unconscious of their actions issues. The potential result is videochat industry is in some situations guilt of endangering other life in extension of conspiracy to defraud, particulary when the "ripped off wankers" are vulnerable persons.
That pervert narcissic personality defines as well escorts as camgirls, however giving lessons of maturity to the victims they literally devasted without even being aware of their responsability (guilt), what explains their denial. But if my advocacy is pefectly indubitable, and you know it well UL, it's because that pervert narcissic personnaility itself is the product of what i call a sectarian process.

(I'im quoting you)
"Cams-whores" are not born, Sniiper. They are the final product of a institutionalized education process, not a character flaw. These women must be recruited, socially conditioned and carefully trained. And in the end, it's sometimes true that when these girls have had "their humanity squeezed out of them by this job," they then become the 'victims turned predators' that you describe so well"
http://camgirlnotes.fr.yuku.com/topic/889/Model-Alert-Snipers-Have-Hacked-Video-Archives#.VVGvV5PLJmE

Definitely, poeple having numerous lessons to learn before to be qualifiable as grown up persons are not clients...
Definitely, observing things is one thing, learning from the same things is another thing.

Poeple in that field will have to face up their acts a next day. Because that field is sect, recruiting naïve girls in order to scam poeple all over the world, under the mask of adult entertainment.
Nothing more, nothing less.

Because the list of the criminal charges against them is already very long.
 

Last Edited By: headcleaner May 12 15 8:10 AM. Edited 18 times.

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