#61 [url]

May 4 11 1:24 AM

QUOTE
Many camgirls are probably only interested in money 


They all are in this for money otherwise it would be hobby and not job, and even if friendship is possible and can exist in some cases, the guy's thought that they can be friends BECAUSE he sent money was proven to be wrong already as he related in his experience.

I havent said it's not possible to be friends, I said it doesnt mean they are friends if he sent them money so stop putting words in my mouth while I'm only honest cause I have no other interest in saying nice fake words.

QUOTE
never go into a camgirl's chat room with the intention to become friends with her; it won't happen.


It's truth, me like others I'm not looking for friendship in my chatroom, the pay per minute for show and conversation/fantasy is fair enough, why complicate things?

QUOTE
“You can easily judge the character of a man(person) by how he(they) treats those who can do nothing for him(them).”


I'd say rather only God can judge

But if you want to talk about character, the guys who pay for "friendship" of beautiful cam girls are not 100% genuine, they know they can do something for them being in attention they dont get in real life, good time etc.. If it were about a poor kid from Africa on cam, he wouldnt donate for a possible friendship either, he would be meaningless as he could do anything for him :-) and thats worse than a front face reality words

And yeah, I wish all the cam girls be honest like me and dont create the ilusion of friendship in order to receive money. Plus the whole donation thing is inefficient - a model can earn more from privates than talking for ages with a guy that sent them once - and i've seen that, some guys think that if they sent something they are entitled to stay in their room forever..

Oh, right, I forgot the truth hurt.. Ok, they all love you, want you in their rooms even without money, just because you are so wonderful So if you split the persons and "judge" them about how nice they talk with you.. well, you deserve to be lied or actually you lie yourself :-) till the next guy come on CGN complaining he has his pocket and heart broke and the 'evil" cam girls cheated him :-)

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

#62 [url]

May 4 11 2:25 AM

They only want you to stay in their room because you might tip or private them. Witty banter does not pay the utility bill.

#63 [url]

May 4 11 9:16 AM

From Donkykongll:

QUOTE
Actually, what happened a couple of times is that camgirls seemed to enjoy my company without payment. One camgirl begged several times that I should stay and don�t leave the room. I didn't tip much then. Later she said she didn't have time for me anymore and then started to say negative things, and then the atmosphere turned worse and worse. I chose to leave her alone.


"...seemed to enjoy..." They seemed to enjoy your company? And by the end of your own written paragraph you can't figure it out, huh?

Here's my observations, so try to follow me. These girls, ladies, women are working. They're trying to make money. You are reluctant to pay them their time, but they don't know that. You are a potential customer. Once they find out that you are there to have Facebook and talk and window shop, they need to get rid of you. You are an obstacle to them working.

You don't see that? What do you think, they are there for fun? "Hi, I take my clothes off, invade orifices, but I must do it on cam because I am an exhibitionist?"They were nice enough to try to "qualify" you and once they saw that you are wasting their time, rightly so, carrajo, vayate, salgas, cabron, please go get a Facebook account.

QUOTE
Another camgirls EXPLICITLY said to me that she didn�t take her clothes off and accepted that I only came to talk. Only thing was I joked that I wanted to know the other girls who worked at her studio. I kept on begging so at the end she said that I shouldn�t come back. I actually did come back several times, so that simply meant the BAN-button. That was really a cool girl.

Wow, you are one arrogant SOB, with all due respect. You enter a place of business, so to speak and turn yourself into an obstacle, worse an annoyance, and you have the "chtuzpah" (the unmitigated audacity) not to even see this? Good golly, man, you are a cabron. How the hell is a cam girl supposed to to do her best to earn a living with guys like you who behave like you populating their chatrooms? "Hello Mrs. Landlord, I have no rent but Mr. Kong made me smile today with his great online persona and rather than pay you, let me tell you about our developing friendship."

Do you see where I'm going with all this? And I don't intend to insult you. But in case you miss my point, please allow me to continue.

QUOTE
I seems that in some cases camgirls just want some company without payment. It really happens. But sometimes you become sick of a person if your see him to long. I'm probably the kind of person who can make good friends but can also turn good friends into enemies. I have to LEARN the good ways.

You really don't get it. These girls are working. Pay them. "Hi, come to my place of business, distract me from my work, I'm in this for the online fun and fetish, I'm starving and face eviction but no, I don't want money because I'm too sexed up to think about paying bills."

You have to tell me what you don't understand, you have to. Tell me where you disagree with one single point that I'm making.

OK, you aren't going to pay to play, that's your business. But why the heck would you dare take up someone's time when they are working? Pay attention to these words: For you it's fun and chat; for the model it's time and work. If you are going to continue in your cheapskate online antics, enter a room, freeload and say nothing. Better yet, pay your way, credits or tokens, however the site calls the purchase.

At the end of your spo-called day, you've chatted and shared your great online personality and half the way around the world you show off your wit and wisdom. At the end of that cam girl's day you've wasted her time, perhaps driven off a potential paying customer, and she earned less or nothing thanks to a debonair chap such as your charming self being in her chat room. "Hey, I rated and admired, gave you five stars."

"Mrs. Landlord, instead of rent I have five stars and a really fun chat log filled with pithy comments and fun emotes, oh, I even felt a tingle. Now, time to pay my phone bill with the same palaver because just like donkykongll, I also have no money."

I hope that by now that you see my point. Friendships do happen (rarely) but the relationships you're looking for are unlikely to ever happen (to you) and your online search for hand-holding is not fair to the model whose time you waste. Your own written words ought to tell you that. The models see you, are patient enough with you and do their best to get you the heck out of their way once they correctly size you up.

When you next go to work, tell your employer that instead of a paycheck all you really want is some appreciation, a pat on the back, a smile and some kind words. See how much gas you can put in your tank with that kind of salary.

.
.
You stuck your forearm up the backside of an antelope
and you didn't know that you're going for a ride?

#64 [url]

May 4 11 9:50 AM

Reuters....... 5 *Stars* for your post)))

Donkey .....

QUOTE
But sometimes you become sick of a person if your see him to long. I'm probably the kind of person who can make good friends but can also turn good friends into enemies. I have to LEARN the good ways
.....

Camgirl and others have told you how it is at cam sites.... u should know by now after indulging in your porn habit all these years…........


Maybe it’s time to check out other chat rooms if you want to make friends , or join a Real Dating site where there is no payment involved , where Real people are looking for Real friendships, and leave the Porn chat rooms for wanking and fantasy and not bothering the girls


The reverse side also has a reverse side

#65 [url]

May 4 11 1:27 PM

QUOTE
I have an update on me.

I have built up some good relationships with camgirls and really became friends with them. I even sent one money. And I helped her with calling men in the lounge. Some men called me a pimp.

But all the time the good relationship became very mean. I have been banned by camgirls dozens of times. The last girl even complained that I only came to chat and that I never tipped (I only had 4 privates). That hit me very hard.

For the time being, I am done with camgirl-sites. It gives me a bad feeling.

(by the way, a camgirl heard rumours that some camgirls are being extorted. They are threatened that their pictures are released. But I don't know if it's true.)


You became a client, a customer, a marked man, a potential the minute you entered and paid for services rendered.

The minute you crossed that boundary you are just another client. You will never ever change that fact and no matter how hard, or how respectful or how gentlemanly, or how helpful you have been to anyone in that environment, you are just another "Duck".

Take what you learned and move on with the knowledge of knowing better now.

These women are there as Reuters and others stated to your post, to earn a living. nothing more and nothing less.

There are anomalies, where I have seen and experienced knowing a woman who works as a cam model who have asked for you to come and visit them in their chat and work as a "friend". If you do not play the "game" there, and both model and visitor understand the reason and purpose you are there, then all will be fine, as long as you do not interfere, annoy, disrupt, or become a negative impact at her place of work.

The ironic thing here, is that some of these women as I think DK was stating, or thought was his case, was that he interpreted his semi-intimate connection as being closer that the relationship was in reality. He may have been asked to come keep a model company or to portray some skewed idea of a friendship within the environment of the job, but that is not the norm as far as what friendship or love is all about in reality.

You learned your lesson, DK, I hope you take that and grow upon it with the knowledge and understanding that you are a potential client and a target in their environment. You can never ever change the fact that you paid in the past especially if you exchanged a commercial price for whatever you or she did on any of these type of websites.

I wonder, what some people would say if two individuals met not within the environment of a womans work and both became good friends. Whereas, as friends, each one gave of themselves to genuinely help the other in the true sense of the meaning of friendship. One where a person, was there for support, concern, and love of another individual, which then blossomed into a genuine trusting friendship. Which later another person assisted the other out financially or in an equal and supportive manner.

I wonder if some here would come up with some theory, that it is "all about the money" as well, when the commercial environment is not the case. Or would some theorize that even away from the persuasive fantasy world of the job of a cam model, that one could say, "Well they still got your money".

Save a ho or help a friend.......................

I hope you all see the differences I simply described.

Get the F out of that environment DK, you will feel better and use what happened to you, to find something more substantial and more genuine.

What is described perviously, is not a place where respect, integrity, honor, or friendship and love are true and real. Only when you remove the commercial exchanges, and the fantasy, can you find true friendship and/or true love.

Disclaimer: Unless someone has learned the art of the con. Be wery wery careful you wascal wabbit.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

#66 [url]

May 5 11 12:45 PM

I doubt what you say that camgirls only expect the big bucks and are only nice in return for tips.

Camgirls are people too. Not just the mere 'homo economicus'.

Compare it to other professions. If you talk to a waitress, and the contact is friendly, is the only reason she is friendly to you because SHE EXPECTS A TIP?

I think that is true sometimes. But I think many times people like good company. Even if that company is paid for.

People also hire entertainers at parties. Are these entertainers only friendly because they are paid for that? I think not. They are there because they are paid for it. But they are friendly and enjoy the social interactions because people in general enjoy good company!

I think it is also true for the camgirls.

But there are certainly camgirls who are only friendly for tips, I don't doubt about that.

I think the friendship I had with some of the camgirls was real. But I screwed it.

BTW: I'm also on a datingsite. I have nice chats on that. But no date yet.

#67 [url]

May 5 11 7:14 PM

QUOTE
If you talk to a waitress, and the contact is friendly, is the only reason she is friendly to you because SHE EXPECTS A TIP? 


Duh, maybe in her case she's nice because if she wouldn't be, she'd get fired :-) so it's part of the job description and "recommended" attitude.

QUOTE
They are there because they are paid for it.


In free chat the cam girls are not paid (most of the times), so the stress of getting or not getting a client because at the end of the shift she might have a smaller income if she doesn't, is not fun at all.

Obviously nobody can convince you to the contrary, so if you want to check, try to talk with the waitress on her free time :-) and see if she's still nice or if she'll even talk with you at all.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

#68 [url]

May 5 11 11:53 PM

QUOTE (DonkeyKongII @ May 05, 2011 07:45 am)
I doubt what you say that camgirls only expect the big bucks and are only nice in return for tips.

Camgirls are people too. Not just the mere 'homo economicus'.

Compare it to other professions. If you talk to a waitress, and the contact is friendly, is the only reason she is friendly to you because SHE EXPECTS A TIP?

I think that is true sometimes. But I think many times people like good company. Even if that company is paid for.

OK, you don't seem to get it. I would like you to pick apart my previous posting to you, line by line and state clearly what you disagree with and why. State clearly what you found vague and ambiguous and why you think so.

A waitress? Even if you don't tip her, she still gets paid. True, she's paid a slave wage and true, she gets taxed by the IRS as if you did tip her, but still she ends up with some money for her time.

Most videochat perofrmers ONLY walk home with money of customers/members tip her or have private sessions with her.

And yet, you still want to argue and you still want to insist that it's ethical for you to cruise from chatroom to model until you can find someone to share your wondeeful self with and pay nothing to her while she waits and hopes and prays that some member who is a complete opposite from the likes of you will help her to earn a living.

Maybe I give up. You're right. These models are in fact video-cam perverts, going gonzo because they are both exhibitionists and nymphs, that's why they do this day after day after day.

I wish I knew how to have such fun, sitting on bed hour after hour, plastic appliance buzzing away in one of my hands plunging in and out of some part of my body and lo and behold, I must stop in the middle of it all to type the code for a funny and unique emote to post, but hey, I'm so talented that xI can stop mid-frenzy, post, not lose a beat and prwtty soon Ill be getting my 6th big orgasm for my shift, and it's real, not faked.

Please chat with me in private message for a few hours while I lie here doing as I described.

Do one more thing, good buddy (a little CB lingo, as in ''breaker 19, genius passing in the breakdown lane), don't just have one cool login name and membership, use two different web browsers (e.g., Chrome and Firefox) and sign into the cam site with two different memberships, both you. Why? Oh are you silly, one membership for you and one for your massive Donkykongll ego!

Please dare to tell me that you don't get it now.

Pay the gal. Tip your waitress. Send a gratuity to your bartender. Say thank you to your delveryman with Ben Franklin talking for you.

Pay and pay handsomely. Your stupid 100 tokens cost you $10.00 USD and from that magninmous gesture of your big tip the model might see $2.50 USD of it. Don't be so stupid (as I was not too long ago) and think that $2.50 buys a lot in Romania. They have the same costs if not more than we spoiled Americans have.

The best thing that you can do for a model is to take her private.

The Lounge? You are either dumb or just plain old really dumb, when you pimp in The Lounge, the scum there purposely go to the model's profile page and rate one or two stars to try ti bring down her cam score. Those lovely and fine human beings arw resentful of pimping activities. Stop it.

You wanna help a model? Take her private and let her earn some money. That's how you help a model.

In time, maybe youu might develop a relationship with one, but it's rare, unlikely and so darned difficult when the object of your infatuation (if I can use such a word) is almost 5000 miles a way, ''just about a moonlight mile on down the road.''

Don't try to bed your waitress, bartender, deliveryman, videochat hostess or the cashier at Walmart. Leave them alone.

Do you belive in vampires? I don't. But I do belive in energy vampires, people like you who suck the energy-blood Out of a person.

.
.
You stuck your forearm up the backside of an antelope
and you didn't know that you're going for a ride?

#69 [url]

May 6 11 12:15 AM

A simple question arises now.....

Why did you help your "friend" quit camming, Reuters?

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

#70 [url]

May 6 11 12:51 AM

QUOTE (TRAINER @ May 05, 2011 07:15 pm)
A simple question arises now.....

Why did you help your "friend" quit camming, Reuters?

That's a good question. But there's two types of answers, one that I can post here for public consumption and then the real, unexpurgated version that I'm apt to give if you and some others were to call, email or private message me.

In short, she hated MFC more than anything. She hated camming, leading a secret life. She hated freeloaders, hand-holders (doesn't include me, lol) and just the kind of member to whom I recently coined three vitriolic responses. The emotional drain of these hand-holding, MFC-is-Facebook, date me, marry me, pm me but no privates or tips for you premium members sucked the life and energy right out of her.

So the circumstances presented themselves and I suggested let's try something else in life, and that's what we're doing.

We? Yes. We are a we. And it ain't easy on either of us. 5000 miles is 8000 km and that's one huge distance that not even Marshall McKluen's Global Village can shrink for me or for her.

Why did I help her? That's what partners do, they help each other.

But I'll tell you something, I haven't thought too much or too deeply about my true and/or real motivations. That's the stuff of therapy and psychoanalysis and soul searching and introspection. I won't dispute that my motivations do have selfish component. 100% altruistic? No. 100% with no strings attached, unconditional care and help? Absolutely.

.
.
You stuck your forearm up the backside of an antelope
and you didn't know that you're going for a ride?

#71 [url]

May 6 11 1:30 AM

Thank you for your answer.

I can not refute anything in your description regarding MFC and the atmosphere in which that environment is all about.

If you do not mind me quoting you here, so I can enlighten others.I will highlight some of your observations and then add a few things to elaborate.

.

QUOTE
In short, she hated MFC more than anything. She hated camming, leading a secret life. She hated freeloaders, hand-holders (doesn't include me, lol) and just the kind of member to whom I recently coined three vitriolic responses. The emotional drain of these hand-holding, MFC-is-Facebook, date me, marry me, pm me but no privates or tips for you premium members sucked the life and energy right out of her.


MFC is not the only web site that has those issues described in that paragraph. But you do point out what I have been saying about things in the past. Thanks.

And you also point out that there are women who do not enjoy the work as well.

You took it upon yourself to step up to the plate and save her and lead her to another place. Perhaps there are more women who need that type of assistance as well, don't you think so?

If that is the simple observation, then why choose and pick a person of one's own choice? I understand your selfish motivations as you have described, and trust me, I have seen it quite often in the past.

In an altruistic objective manner, I would say that there are many more just like your friend. Do you think there are other ways to help others in a more impersonal fashion other than self motivated individualism also?(Just a simple alternative point there).

I will say MFC does not hold the monopoly on what you described in regards to the marriage, date me, pm me, email me, actions of visitors. It is spreading out like a virus infects its host.
I can attest to the fact that is not only the freeloaders who do that above, and that at times it is a tool used by some to hook a member in as well.


QUOTE
But I'll tell you something, I haven't thought too much or too deeply about my true and/or real motivations. That's the stuff of therapy and psychoanalysis and soul searching and introspection. I won't dispute that my motivations do have selfish component. 100% altruistic? No. 100% with no strings attached, unconditional care and help? Absolutely.


You should think closer and deeper about motivations on both sides. It is impossible to have no strings attached as you describe. Trust me on that observation. Take a step back and look closely at the "no strings attached" admission, you will then think more clearer. Take that as some helpful advice.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

#72 [url]

May 6 11 5:19 AM

QUOTE (TRAINER @ May 05, 2011 08:30 pm)



QUOTE
You took it upon yourself to step up to the plate and save her and lead her to another place. Perhaps there are more women who need that type of assistance as well, don't you think so?

Yes and no. While I don't mind the turn of events, I didn't push her or plan this. Circumstances and opportunity arose, a confluence of events, and we decided that enough is enough. But other than what I've written previously, I'm not at liberty to paste a life story onto a public forum. The whole idea of leaving the world of videochat is that your "life" doesn't have to be on display. Of course, in videochat "your life" is quite the metaphor, isn't it?

It's an absolute that many people in front of the videochat camera would like a ticket out. And there are many models who don't need or don't want to leave the industry. Some people are not happy with a job no matter what job it is. Let's all agree that being a cam girl is a unique job in a unique industry. Describing it with any other terms is likely to place value judgments on the person and the industry, and I don't judge even if that means that I have to surpress feelings and opinions that would otherwise naturally surface and find expression in a weighted word.

QUOTE
If that is the simple observation, then why choose and pick a person of one's own choice? I understand your selfish motivations as you have described, and trust me, I have seen it quite often in the past. 

In an altruistic objective manner, I would say that there are many more just like your friend. Do you think there are other ways to help others in a more impersonal fashion other than self motivated individualism also?(Just a simple alternative point there).

I didn't go Repunzel-hunting. The way to help those in distress, I don't know, that's for more creative minds than miine. You surely don't do it by perving on MFC. You do it in person, in the places where it's needed. Church groups, that's where. Let them do it.

And then there is this forum, unique. It doesn't supply grants or pay stipends. It is a support group of sorts. I hope it is.And not a support group for members, but for models. Members don't need a support group. I don't know what they/we need as an amalgamation of sorted folks, but a support group for members? Models come first. The heck with members. We can find our own ways of surviving.

QUOTE
  I will say MFC does not hold the monopoly on what you described in regards to the marriage, date me, pm me, email me, actions of visitors. It is spreading out like a virus infects its host. I can attest to the fact that is not only the freeloaders who do that above, and that at times it is a tool used by some to hook a member in as well.

You want my opinion on a member who might be hoodwinked or perhaps misled or maybe he thinks he's on a primrose path to date-a-model only to find out that she's a halogram? I say this, tough luck. Next time try Facebook or Twitter or hang out in a decent grocery store, pretending to have questions on how to buy the right kind of produce. Cut your losses and move on, no revenge, no retaliation, no hanging out in the MFC Lounge and trying to give the model a bad day, none of that.

QUOTE
You should think closer and deeper about motivations on both sides. It is impossible to have no strings attached as you describe. Trust me on that observation. Take a step back and look closely at the "no strings attached" admission, you will then think more clearer. Take that as some helpful advice.

Gee, I hope I never have to prove you wrong. But in case the sad day comes, you'll be quite wrong then, just as you are now. No strings attached means just that. Unconditional means just that, no small print, no hidden agenda. If my friend needs to un-friend (de-friend?) me on Feisbuk and tell me nada mas para mi, Heaven forbid that she should have to consider tolerating me because I provide help and pay for things. I don't pull a carpet out from under a person's feet ESPECIALLY since on the outset I said that such an eventuality won't happen by my choice. You know, if I go tree-hugging like the Kennedy fellow or Sonny Bono, those types of circumstances are a bit beyond my control. But for me to even utter the words, "You can't do this, look at all I've done for you..." Nope, not out of my mouth. The monarch in the movie THE LIBERTINE had that patronizing attitude, "Look at all I've done for you." Ain't happening from me. So if that's what I call "unconditional caring", there you go.

I said several times, the worst that can happen to me is a broken heart and some lost money. I am not fond of broken hearts. But when I pldge support, one thing's for sure, I won't be jumping off any bridges because that pledge is a line in the sand. So I don't even get the luxury of being suiciadal like any normal "Dear John" shunted lover. If I want that I'll have to experience it vicariously in some movie. There I go saving Reounzel (even thoiugh I said this isn't my story) and she decides to run off with the village smithy, just like a woman!!! LOL

I hope I'm not pasting more private details.Again, the Big Idea is to become a private person. To wit, I'm hoping for the beneficence of her former studio to erase some history, a Richard Nixon moment, please.




.
.
You stuck your forearm up the backside of an antelope
and you didn't know that you're going for a ride?

#73 [url]

May 6 11 12:03 PM

I think you are missing the point.

You are attached by strings, if you are not you would not even be posting here.

Unconditional love is a love that has no boundaries,no judgements,no concern for anything but for the person and in what manner and fashion they need help or love, as opposed to "no strings attached" statement.

Unconditional love is the love for someone irregardless of how ugly they are or how bad or good one is. A beloved pet has unconditional love for its owner irregardless of how ugly the owner is. Although, if that owner is abusive towards the animal, of course, the animal will eventually turn against the one who is abusive eventually. Another example is a parents love for their children, no matter how good, bad, ugly, good looking their child is in reality, they love them unconditionally. Even loving someone, who was once beautiful and became disfigured and you still love them and adore them is another form of unconditional love.

As far as the strings being attached if you are not entangled with this woman, as you say, then can you cold turkey, stop your relationship now? Go ahead, do it now, I dare you. I am sure you can not. Because simply, you have strings attached.

Perhaps, you do not want to have control or any power over her, or wish to impart your ideas or thinking upon her, at any cost, but you both came to a mutual agreement as to what you both weighed her situation as being and then with advice and discussions amongst yourselves,cme to some sort of conclusion and plan.

QUOTE
I didn't go Repunzel-hunting. The way to help those in distress, I don't know, that's for more creative minds than miine. You surely don't do it by perving on MFC. You do it in person, in the places where it's needed. Church groups, that's where. Let them do it.


Alas, you did do it. You did it on MFC and not at church. You were there perving just like DK was. Just like every other person was there for. The obvious is written in your own language and your own words here and now. I am not going to argue the point, but your admission here is contrary to what you view it as.



QUOTE
QUOTE
You should think closer and deeper about motivations on both sides. It is impossible to have no strings attached as you describe. Trust me on that observation. Take a step back and look closely at the "no strings attached" admission, you will then think more clearer. Take that as some helpful advice.

Gee, I hope I never have to prove you wrong. But in case the sad day comes, you'll be quite wrong then, just as you are now. No strings attached means just that. Unconditional means just that, no small print, no hidden agenda. If my friend needs to un-friend (de-friend?) me on Feisbuk and tell me nada mas para mi, Heaven forbid that she should have to consider tolerating me because I provide help and pay for things. I don't pull a carpet out from under a person's feet ESPECIALLY since on the outset I said that such an eventuality won't happen by my choice. You know, if I go tree-hugging like the Kennedy fellow or Sonny Bono, those types of circumstances are a bit beyond my control. But for me to even utter the words, "You can't do this, look at all I've done for you..." Nope, not out of my mouth. The monarch in the movie THE LIBERTINE had that patronizing attitude, "Look at all I've done for you." Ain't happening from me. So if that's what I call "unconditional caring", there you go.


You do not have to prove me wrong. I am not wrong. You are assisting her personally. You know her intimately. You are deeply involved. I do not need any specifics but just what you have written about already. You have strings attached now , you just don't acknowledge it, nor do you want to admit it. If you have no strings attached then stop now, whatever you are doing with her. Walk away.

What you are describing, is that after all the hard work, or the time and effort you have been involved in with her, that if she decides to stop friending you, or being intimately involved with you(how can that even be possible if you say there are no strings attached) that you will not be hurt or annoyed etc etc. That is something entirely different.

Ok,for example, so I showed you my real birth certificate proving beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I am born in the USA, and then another person comes along and says nope, it is not real, it is not true, I am not a citizen, bla bla bla. I truly hope you see my point here and now.

Then you do not care about the other half of the crowd there(the members). Wow, you sound like a few others now. That world is a shithole, plain and simple. There are good and bad members as well as models. Who is judging now, hmmm by your statements.

Like I am stating here and previously, if you truly wanted no emotional fallout, no "strings attached", no personal involvement but to do the altruistic thing for a person or persons in a bad situation. Then step back, and acknowledge that it can be done in a more impersonal manner and fashion, then you or anyone else, as an individual, are describing here.

What people seem to be missing, is that you, Reuters, and others, individually, choose and pick a singular person, and get involved with them. You enter into a persons personal lives, and become a string attached. If you want to be altruistic and with "no strings attached", then I suggest not to get involved in the individualistic manner you chose. The problem is the blinders worn by people blind them to the obvious.

All these "white knights" going around with their own agendas, or forms of assistance, and self centered motivations, are choosing and picking their own person to sponsor, so to speak.

If you truly want to help people, with no personal involvement but for the best for them, and not for yourselves, then there is another path and methodology.

One fine example, is to assist a group of people with training, supplies, education and monetary assistance without embedding oneself into an individuals life. Supply the constructive tools for people to learn and become independent of their own and on their own, by unknown people from wherever without intruding into their personal lives. To me, that is altruistic and less "string attached".

Just because you think and say, it ain't so, does not mean it ain't so.

I could care less what you are doing that you are afraid to admit here in public, it has no relevance to what you want to believe and what the reality is.

I suggest you take a step back as I advised you, and stop argueing semantics. It just won't work on me. Been there done that, you are not the first nor will be the last person to do what you are doing.

Do not take what I write here as offensive. I am being objective here.

Good luck.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

#74 [url]

May 6 11 1:03 PM

Hey Camgirl, you want to build a relationship with no strings attached?)) no personal involvement….it would be best for you , and not myself.

QUOTE
Like I am stating here and previously, if you truly wanted no emotional fallout, no "strings attached", no personal involvement but to do the altruistic thing for a person or persons in a bad situation. Then step back, and acknowledge that it can be done in a more impersonal manner and fashion, then you or anyone else, as an individual, are describing here.

What people seem to be missing, is that you, Reuters, and others, individually, choose and pick a singular person, and get involved with them. You enter into a persons personal lives, and become a string attached. If you want to be altruistic and with "no strings attached", then I suggest not to get involved in the individualistic manner you chose. The problem is the blinders worn by people blind them to the obvious.


Trainer ....... have a look at this doco when you have the time……..

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-miracle-baby-of-haiti

this baby drew many people into her life ....changed their lives forever.... but what started as a simple act of mercy had unpredictable and profound consequences for everyone involved....... what started out as Alturistic ... well... watch the film



Then ask your self what you are doing here on this forum. ……

The reverse side also has a reverse side

#75 [url]

May 6 11 3:33 PM

Well when I get the chance to view that I certainly will,Facile.

I want to add, if you really want a no strings attached relationshisp while helping a model out, do as I have done in the past.

Take them private, for hours. Simply because it is their job. Do not get involved in their personal lives or circumstances. Be totally faceless, with no expectations. I did that for quite awhile in the past people.

I had no inclination to get to know the person for whom they are. I knew I was paying for a service rendered.

But alas, some took it upon themselves, to ask for my personal info. Who the hells knows what their motivations were, until you actually do get involved personally with that person whom I just happened that I met at their job as a chat host.

Then ask yourselves why they are telling you all their problems. Why they are involving you inside their personal issues or lives. See that happened to me often enough in the past. In each and every personal relationship where I got intimate with someone, the final motivation for them was to befriend me, so they can get some material or financial gain from me.

I was a dollar sign to them. There was no true friendship, or true love. All I was, was just another target, another potential dollar or euro. No matter how skewed they created that love or friendship it was always about the greenbacks in the final conclusion for them, even though I did not seek, intitiate or want to get more deeply involved with them. I was too nice a guy in the past.

I learned my lessons quite well. As my good friend says, "A camgirl wants you for your money". "They are not interested in you as a friend, nor a lover." What I described here, is the purpose and the environment in which individuals work and individuals play at. You can spend tons of money on anything and end up with nothing of value in the end.

In the end, I, personally, learned some valuable lessons about circumstance and the personal lives of others.

In the end,after all was said and done, I met a true friend without any commercial exchanges of being their client. I just met a friend, a person, in the truest sense and value of the word and definition.

I will never ever be a client again in that world of fantasy, lust, and desire. To me, it is all a game and a fantasy where bullshit reigns and greed overcomes all sensibilities and logic.

Yeah isn't that personal of me to write that.

All these women whom you take upon yourselves, being so concerned for, yet nothing changes the deep rooted problems and issues that they are born and raised into. Yet you all still want to save this one and that one.

Take some advice, and realize that if people want to change a horrible situation then it is up to them to want and desire it. Not by picking and choosing your selection of your choice. That just isn't humane or fair for the rest. The capitalistic greed is destroying many, I think it is time for a change.

What about the rest of the world, people? Are there not people in the USA, who are in dire predicaments as well? Or anywhere else on this planet? Am I to assume, that only the women I meet online on a porn site are the only people in the world with problems. Yet they are there to earn a living and I most certainly paid them for their time. But in the end, it mostly was complete utter bullshit.

I can not change my past, but I can change the present and my future with the knowledge and experience and learn from it all. I suggest,again, that there are other paths and choices to help people. We just are too selfish to get past our own selfish motivations and egos.

I do not agree with the work as whole but I can certainly understand why some have no other choice but to choose it. I think therein lies the root of the problems for many, we just don't want to make that connection but dance around it all.

Do as you want, do as you wish, it does not change much in the grand scheme of things. You want meaningful constructive change, then do it for everyone, not just for yourselves and a few select others. And do it with integrity and honesty, anything other than that is selfish and egotistical.

I got to know some truly intelligent and interesting people in all these years, and in the end, only a few were true to themselves and with me. Unselfish, honest and respectful they were and are. I would not, and will not have it any other way in reality.


Just a simple conclusion and opinion, from some idiot who crossed one boundary in their life. Take it for what it is worth. "It is what it is", or is it really?


P.S.- Facile I could not watch the video from the link you provided but found other related videos and info.

What I am doing on this forum, I ask myself that all the time. Probably wasting my time and effort.

Can you imagine all the good that could be done for others, Facile, if all of the "white knights" decided to try some different approach?

Here are a few stats for you all to ponder over.



QUOTE
Size of the Industry $57.0 billion world-wide - $12.0 billion US
          -Adult Videos $20.0 billion
          -Escort Services $11.0 billion
          -Magazines $ 7.5 billion
          -Sex Clubs $ 5.0 billion
          -Phone Sex $ 4.5 billion
          -Cable & Pay Per View $ 2.5 billion
          -Internet $ 2.5 billion
          -CD-Rom $ 1.5 billion
          -Novelties $ 1.0 billion
          -Other $ 1.5 billion
Porn revenue is larger than all combined revenues of all professional football, baseball and basketball franchises.

US porn revenue exceeds the combined revenues of ABC, CBS, and NBC (6.2 billion)

Child pornography generates $3 billion annually

Internet Porn Statistics

Pornographic websites 4.2 million (12% of total websites)

Pornographic pages 372 million

Daily pornographic search engine requests 68 million (25% of total search engine requests)

Daily pornographic emails 2.5 billion (8% of total emails)

Average daily pornographic emails/user 4.5 per Internet user

Monthly Pornographic downloads (Peer-to-peer) 1.5 billion (35% of all downloads)

Daily Gnutella “child pornography” requests 116 thousand

Websites offering illegal child pornography 100 thousand

Sexual solicitations of youth made in chat rooms 89%

Youths who received sexual solicitation 20%

Worldwide visitors to pornographic web sites 72 million annually

Children's Exposure to Pornography

Average age of first Internet exposure to pornography 11 years old

Largest consumer of Internet pornography 12-17 age group

15-17 year olds having multiple hard-core exposures 80%

8-16 year olds having viewed porn online 90% (most while doing homework)

7-17 year olds who would freely give out home address 29%

7-17 year olds who would freely give out email address 14%

Children's characters linked to thousands of porn links 26 (including Pokeman and Action Man)

Adult Internet Porn Statistics

Men admitting to accessing pornography at work 20%

US adults who regularly visit Internet pornography websites 40 million

Promise Keeper men who viewed pornography in last week 53%

Christians who said pornography is a major problem in the home 47%

Adults admitting to Internet sexual addiction 10%

Breakdown of male/female visitors to pornography sites 72% male - 28% female

Women and Pornography

13% of Women admit to accessing pornography at work.

70% of women keep their cyber activities secret.

17% of all women struggle with pornography addiction.

Women, far more than men, are likely to act out their behaviors in real life, such as having multiple partners, casual sex, or affairs.

Women favor chat rooms 2X more than men.

1 of 3 visitors to all adult web sites are women.

9.4 million women access adult web sites each month.


Here is where I obtained these statistics:

https://wsr.byu.edu/content/national-pornography-statistics



For those who could not view the link Facile posted,

Here is the article regarding what Facile:

QUOTE
The Miracle Baby of Haiti

At barely a year old, Landina Seignon has cheated death many times over and endured agonising injuries. When she was just a month old, Landina was severely injured in a fire that nearly claimed her life.

She was being treated in hospital when Haiti's devastating earthquake struck in January, killing 300,000 people and reducing whole buildings to rubble. She lay under debris for two days.

The survival of this tiny fragile infant was remarkable and led to her being seen by David Nott, a British surgeon who was volunteering in Haiti. He realised she needed specialist surgery, which could be performed at Great Ormond Street Hospital.

Nott campaigned to bring her to the UK, and was joined by Channel News reporter Inigo Gilmore, who filed reports about her each day. Landina made headlines around the world, becoming a symbol of Haiti's earthquake tragedy and the country's ongoing battle for survival.

Eventually, with the help of the charity Facing the World, Landina was brought to London and underwent two complex operations. But difficult questions remained over her future as she faced the prospect of returning to an orphanage or foster home in Haiti.

Returning to Haiti, Gilmore searched for Landina's family and was eventually led to one of Port au Prince's most notorious slums, to the home of Landina's mother, whose name could not have been more fitting: Marie Miracle.

Marie had grieved for her lost baby after being told she had died in hospital. The film follows her joyous reunion with the baby she never dreamt she would see again, and documents the process of them learning to bond as mother and daughter.

The Miracle Baby of Haiti follows the extraordinary chain of events that led to her rescue and the many individuals and organisations that played a role in saving her life - and are committed to securing her future.


http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-mir...ies-1/episode-1

One life, now multiply it to encompass a greater effort and pool the resources as a whole, imagine the possibilities. I am all for helping my fellow human Facile, care to join me?

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

#76 [url]

May 6 11 10:03 PM

QUOTE
Hey Camgirl, you want to build a relationship with no strings attached?)) no personal involvement….it would be best for you , and not myself.


"Relationship" means strings attached by default :-) Otherwise it would be just conjectural approach and not relationship.

QUOTE
You can spend tons of money on anything and end up with nothing of value in the end.


Let's not exagerate. Spending tons of money for those who have them can mean quality time, their favorite model getting naked, fantasies and maybe that doesnt mean anything for you, but for many clients means a smile on their face in the end, so they spend because they consider it's worth.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

#77 [url]

May 7 11 1:17 AM

Hi Trainer. I feel like we have embarked on parrallel conversations. Here's why. I'm not at all interested in ''unconditional love'' either as a philosophical construct or as a test of sincere, genuine affection.

I made no mention of this. I did say clearly that my largess, my ''caring'' is unconditional and not predicated on any relationship with this lady.

Unconditional love is usually the thing of parents to children.

And my so-called ''white knightism'' or e-knight heroics are nothing of the sort. I had no such quest, no prior design and I'm no Sancho Panza.

While I care a great deal about the plight of any poor soul, anyone in distress, anyone downtrodden, I'm not looking to open an institution or swt up a fund or participate, that's not my thing. My charitable activity is a private matter between me, the bestowed and our Creator.

So many shoes don't fit me. ''If the shoe fits, put it on.''

No, I was not perving on MFC, not that I know of. It depends on how you define ''perving'', no? You might say that anyone in a cam-girl's chat room is perving. Or does the perve have to make sex requests and talk erotic using the parlance of adult-oriented speech. I guess that leaves me out of the descriptive realm of perve.

But hey, I'm no angel. While I'm not about to admit an Onanistic practice of ''filling the tissues'' with some biology, it's a tacit understanding that this is what might draw one (even possibly yours truly) to the famous home of free live porn. I never went private, participated in group, made a sexual request or anything other than login, squat my ciber-tuchus in my favorite chatroom and chat and yak and practice my typing from Hell and spelling from purgatory.

A friendhip develops, a circumstance occurrs and the next thing I know I am involved in a personal relationship, no longer a cyber-putz (me, that is, not the model), but the real me and the real her. What was a virtual friendship gets suddenly transformed into something real, rare (sorry DK, but on a rare occasion these things can happen but you still need to have respect enough for the models to just leave them alone) and tangible.

I have no more involvement with cam-sites, hence no opportunity to interact with any model, needy, greedy, or funny and witty, none.

Again, this is a public forum, so I've said enough. In private, my wors might take on a whole new context, no need to parse or be vague. One thing I tried to avoid is to obfuscate. If I say smething that seems to conflict with something previous, either I have a faulty memory or something. Clraifications are made *maybe* in an email or PM, but for sure over thw phone. I am skeptical to commit details to the written word.

Unconditional love? Why do I care? I'm into Romanian romance not French literature or Proust.





































.
.
You stuck your forearm up the backside of an antelope
and you didn't know that you're going for a ride?

#78 [url]

May 7 11 4:28 AM

Trainer, here is a better artical ........

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...ne-year-on.html



Ill find a site that has the video when i get home. ( i can't view video when at work..... so no YouTUBE FOR ME for another 2 weeks)))))..... the doctor opened Pandora Box when he helped that baby..... and there were strings attached , as you will see when watchiing the doco...........



QUOTE
One life, now multiply it to encompass a greater effort and pool the resources as a whole, imagine the possibilities. I am all for helping my fellow human Facile, care to join me?


Yep!, Sure.!..... Im no white knight, had / have no desire to help anyone in the cam world.... sure i spent $1000's . but was all entertainment ... my comic relief as you will))...........

Unless your Bill Gates, hard to make a change ........

White Knight....Ha Ha!! ... they pick and choose based on looks..... and personal connection ...... with strings attaced)))

In the online world it’s hard to see Truth, what’s reality!!..... So much bullshit floating around...... So I only hepl people when I can see the Truth of the situation and do what i can with the resources available to me......... its not in porn land)))))



Camgirl... what about a busisnes relationship?))))))

The reverse side also has a reverse side

#79 [url]

May 7 11 3:20 PM

I am really surprised. Can friendship really not exist in a work situation?

Are your colleagues and your clients all dairy cows that you should be milked as hard as possible to get some financial benefit?

Are clients and service providers always each others enemies who hold each other in contempt?

Why couldn't a barmaid and her customer become friends?

Is all labour oppression?

I think friendship between a camgirl and a client is possible.

PERIOD!!!!



Or as camming really such a different job?

#80 [url]

May 7 11 3:52 PM

So Reuters, will you admit now you have many strings attached? By the way your post regarding parcels, implies the how attached you are. Now stop saying otherwise.

The last few posts here highlights the overall theme of "it is what it is".

You all are running around saving those that you decide are worthy candidates. It is so obvious. I am talking about no strings attached, nothing you expect to gain personally but the knowledge of helping others with out any benefit to yourselves.

You get so entangled into it, that at times you appear to even contradict yourselves.

Go ahead do what you wish. But never say one thing and do another. It just doesn't cut it in my book.

I will post something in silver section to highlight what other people do for others and like I have written in the past, the obvious fact is that many many others are reaping the benefits of empathy and compassion in oh so many ways.

My point is:

None of you can deny the obvious fact that there are women who are in distress, no less, men and children as well. In the truest sense of altruism, any assistance does mean you expect no things in return for your efforts. Yet, I am certain you and others as well as me, get something in return for "attaching your strings" into someone elses business. I am not telling you not to help an individual out, but would assistance be better served for many more than your singular individual choices.

Alas, you could care less or care nothing for anyone else in the objective observance of each persons efforts and assistance. I guess one of us or all are being selfish and self centered then.

I agree with what you wrote camgirl. But you now see the overall picture of what does occur everywhere.

Check out my post in silver section, when I get the opportunity, where I will prove your point that you mentioned a long time ago regarding the psychological implications of foolish white knightism. I never disputed it. And perhaps it might shed some light on what really occurs behind the scenes and what some of your colleagues go about as to the "perks" of the business.(I will mention your buddy, who I shall not name here, incorrectly, made a major misinterpretation of a post of mine elsewhere and then blindly dragged an innocent into something that was not what was written about).

I add, once again, that they should apologize to them again and stop being such an ignoramus and misjudge things in a biased way. That was between him and I, and I will never forget the inconsiderate stupidity that exposed itself and ignorance in that manner.

DK, I would be very wary of what you are comparing things to. The camworld, is unlike any other job out there, except for parallels, to stripping and entertainment at almost any cost.

I have seen an increasing numbers of pregnant women performing on MFC. How about that for pushing limits further?

I am awaiting skype shows for a price whilst some are in labor next?

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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