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NewShoes

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Feb 8 09 3:18 PM

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Also, I completely agree with that quote from Belea79.

My sex life sucks. My husband gripes because I refuse to do any of the work (no need to be graphic here, you get the idea lol) and in general I have no libido.

I find that he'll try and turn me on and I get so irritated.. I'm like take me out to dinner, buy me flowers. GET ME A NANNY. Don't touch me.

lmao. poor guy. this was his idea too. hahah
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#2 [url]

Feb 8 09 5:23 PM

NewShoes, I have to gain some understanding here. And I apologize in advance -- I am not trying to offend, but your last post just hit me broadside.

As I understand your post: Your sex life is non-existent, and you seem to imply it is a fallout of your cam work - work that was as much (or more) your husband's idea as yours.

So if I can draw a further implication, it seems your marriage is now strained to some degree (how much is uncertain) due to your work. And likely to become more strained, not less.

And your comment is "lmao"?

So again forgive me, but I must ask: Does this mean that the money (which you noted earlier is quite significant) is more important than your relationship?

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#3 [url]

Feb 8 09 5:38 PM

That's how I perceived it as well and I was being kind and sweet instead of being a prick.

Seems to me it's kinda like a bad joke in the way you wrote it.

In the game of seduction, there is one rule, never fall in love.

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#4 [url]

Feb 8 09 5:40 PM

Guys.. go easy please...
This topic is for models.. and this job is hard enough to talk about as it is already -without lots of questions that sound like sarcastic needling.
So no third degree here...please.
UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#5 [url]

Feb 8 09 5:46 PM

Go easy please?

Yeah let's really talk about it.........

That third degree can work both ways don't you think?

I am keeping my tongue here now,Uncle.

In the game of seduction, there is one rule, never fall in love.

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#6 [url]

Feb 8 09 5:51 PM

Yes, it can Bittersweet.. just not in this topic...
Don't make me move it to the Restricted Models Section.
UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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NewShoes

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#8 [url]

Feb 8 09 6:31 PM

First,Yeah money is definitely more important at this point.

Second- my husband is only home 1.5 days out of the week because of his job. So before you get all "OMG" about me not caring about my relationship.. you should take into account that im essentially a single mom. I work all night, go to bed at 4am, wake up at 7am.. take care of all the errands, anything my kids need and I do ALL the household work. Im a good enough mom that my 3 year old can read and my 2 year old knows the entire alphabet and phonics. My nanny is only available 3 days a week, so aside from those three days (and only in the mornings) i do this on my own.

Before I started camming we were on WIC and literally made $200 less than we needed just for bills (not groceries and gas.)

On top of all of that one of my kids is chronically ill and we still are getting the runaround from doctors.

So. .YEAH. I dont prioritize sex in my life. Im gunna "lmao" about it because Im not about to sit around crying because I have no sex life anymore.

I could have a sex life again and be on welfare instead.. would you prefer that?

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#9 [url]

Feb 8 09 8:24 PM

No, I wouldn't. I was just respectfully trying to understand, since you broached the subject of the sex life, and I didn't anticipate the piling on.

I appreciate your sharing such personal aspects of your life and recognize that tough decisions have been made. I apologize again; no offense was intended.

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#10 [url]

Feb 9 09 3:50 AM

Money, money walks, money talks. But the question is? With new found wealth or a increased income at the expense of others, family, friends, members, children and themselves, justify the means?
Does the cash justify the reality? Can cash warp ones sense of true happiness and inner being?
Do you think that money can change a person's outlook on life? As to what is real and what is perceived? Can it give them a false perception of reality and their own exsistance?
And in the end will you be content, satisfied that you were all you could be and enriched the lives of all who crossed your path?

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NewShoes

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#11 [url]

Feb 10 09 7:24 PM

QUOTE (tben @ February 09, 2009 03:50 am)
Money, money walks, money talks. But the question is? With new found wealth or a increased income at the expense of others, family, friends, members, children and themselves, justify the means?
Does the cash justify the reality? Can cash warp ones sense of true happiness and inner being?
Do you think that money can change a person's outlook on life? As to what is real and what is perceived? Can it give them a false perception of reality and their own exsistance?
And in the end will you be content, satisfied that you were all you could be and enriched the lives of all who crossed your path?

Alright tben.

Does the ends justify the means? How many ways do I need to say this? Really? Quit pretending like Im being materialistic. Cash is not warping my sense of true happiness and inner being. Let me tell you what did warp it- not knowing where my kids next meal was going to come from because I was out of WIC checks, not being able to buy clothes that fit them, toys for them to play with, put them in a good school, or in swimming, ballet, and soccer lessons. We dont even need to start thinking about all the meals I used to skip because I was afraid 3 days from then my kids wouldnt be able to eat.

Im making a lot of money now.. and I still dont live extravagantly. I live exactly like I did before... the difference is my kids have TONS of new things to enrich their lives. And before you say Im spoiling them- I hardly think that purchasing age appropriate toys to teach them valuable skills is spoiling. I dont have a coach purse. I dont have gucci sunglasses, I dont have an ipod, a GPS, a videocamera, or an Iphone. And we are a one car family.

What ungodly reason do you have for thinking that providing for my family makes me shallow? That this is at the expensive of my family and children.

False perception of reality and my own existence? Are you high? I know exactly what my reality is. I know exactly where I am in life. I know who I am, what Im doing and who I'm doing it for.

No. Money is not warping my sense of reality. I still know whats going on in the world, that people are starving everywhere, that war is going on. I know their are servicemen and women risking their lives for my freedom- hell, my best friend was blown up a few months ago on deployment. I KNOW whats going on. Enriching the lives of all who cross my path has little to do with my job.

I've got news for you.. a lot of women need to work. A lot of women work full time, away from their families and children.. and make barely enough money to cover the extra expense of daycare. Im pretty sure im enriching my kids lives AND my husbands (he no longer has to work a second job at nights.) And before you tell me its about enriching other peoples lives as well, I donate my resources and time whenever I can.



This is not about money in a sense of getting rich. This is about living comfortably.

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NewShoes

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#12 [url]

Feb 10 09 7:29 PM

I dont believe in blackmail.

I knew that my family and friends could eventually find out.. if someone is going to try and blackmail me? Screw them. I'll just tell my family first and expose that person for trying to blackmail.

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NewShoes

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#13 [url]

Feb 10 09 7:42 PM

QUOTE (Dean12345 @ February 08, 2009 05:23 pm)
NewShoes, I have to gain some understanding here. And I apologize in advance -- I am not trying to offend, but your last post just hit me broadside.

As I understand your post: Your sex life is non-existent, and you seem to imply it is a fallout of your cam work - work that was as much (or more) your husband's idea as yours.

So if I can draw a further implication, it seems your marriage is now strained to some degree (how much is uncertain) due to your work. And likely to become more strained, not less.

And your comment is "lmao"?

So again forgive me, but I must ask: Does this mean that the money (which you noted earlier is quite significant) is more important than your relationship?

Also.. Dean, something I learned my sophomore year of high school: If something needs to be prefaced with "no offense" (in your case "I apologize in advance") It is probably best left unsaid.

Here are some examples:

No offense, but your baby is pretty ugly.
No offense, but I think you're a shallow piece of trash.
No offense, but you're a dimwitted idiot.


They all offend anyway. People are not going to not take offense because you apologize before hand. Its like saying I'm sorry and then proceeding to throw bologna all over your car. Or saying I'm sorry before I post pictures of a hot girl on craigslist accompanied by your phone number.

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#14 [url]

Feb 10 09 9:24 PM

I am using my perogative as moderator to split this topic...

I think that this side discussion pissed some of us off, but still raised a pertinent question about camming - and all sex work - that's not immediately about money...And that is what is the human cost for the sex worker of doing repeated sex acts upon themselves that are not truly desired, but performed on command for a client's pleasure - in response to his desire and not their own...

Both Belea79's and NewShoes' responses to my questionnaire suggest that the "price of pleasure" for clients is often paid by the sexual performer in the form of the loss of sexual feeling and responsiveness- a kind of emotional and physical exhaustion. That is what the medical literature finds with regular sex workers who experience "cold violence" at the hands of clients and pimps.. These sex workers learn to keep his or her own body at a "psychic" distance while at work in order to better tolerate the stress of enduring repeated sexual penetrations that are not "desired" - however much we might believe that they were "consensual" because the client bought and paid for them. Over time, these performers can become numb to sexual feeling entirely - in what has been called a "splitting of the self" into two persons. one professional and public..the other real but hidden.

So could this be also true of commercial sexual relations in the virtual world of camming? It may be all "fantasy play," but the sex acts models are asked to perform on themselves remain all too real. Could this be what Belea and New Shoes are getting at with statements like this one:

"From my experience i can say that real sex life is gonna be shitty after long periods of work, u get home and u want to be hugged not fucked and u get a feeling of distrust among ppl because u hear only lies at work, so for models it's worse. For customers i don't really know but i can guess...nothing will change for them"

Sounds like it to me... Or am I totally off base here?

Discussing this sort of issue is hard - even painful- but considering the true human "price of our pleasure" should not be seen as inherently offensive to sex workers.
Indeed maybe it could be seen as an attempt at recognizing your dignity as human beings and making a start toward making amends for past assaults and injuries - however awkwardly that sentiment is expressed.

UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#15 [url]

Feb 11 09 12:15 AM

Believe me when I say I have experienced both sides of the coin.


I can admit, I can no longer afford things I once was able to. And yes, they are now the necessities of everyday living. It always is about choices. Always is, always will be.

It is about the choices we make in our lives.The choices we made whether they were right or wrong, and how we deal with the results. It is about making a concerted effort to listen, to learn and to understand each persons explainations and reasons, of the how and why we got where we are at this time in our lives.

It also is about what paths we all took or take to justify a means to an end. This discussion now has touched deep feelings within myself personally.It is also about the how and the why and the what, that got us where we all are and those choices made.

How many times should I personally write a long winded post trying to get a point across to only seem like a bitter angry person? Or to read another person not agree and get angry or antagonize another.
Perhaps I can understand exactly what someone feels and what they are attempting to convey as well.

Are we all bad people? Have we all made mistakes? Is everyone as open and honest? Is it about the haves and the haves not? Is it about right and wrong?

Once again, do we all deserve what we all get?

Everyone deserves the right to be happy, to be safe, to be healthy. Such is life.

People decide whatever paths, to get where they believe they need to be, and people can agree or disagree with them.

There are people who are in similar circumstances and do not choose the same paths as another. That is a personal decision for each person. It is not fair to condemn or judge if one way is better than another way in justifying the means to the end. But it is about the way we obtain what we all desire in life that may cause problems and disagreements between us all.

What matters the most, is the type of person you are, and how you and others treat each other. To some it is not the end result but how each gets there.

I could add personal admissions, but why bother? I could add personal experiences that would make my point of view seem the proper means to an end, just like anyone else here.

I just had hoped people can find it within their minds and souls to be open, honest, and receptive to an opposing view or ideology. It seems it boils down to ones moral, ethical, or sociological ideals as well.


In the game of seduction, there is one rule, never fall in love.

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#16 [url]

Feb 11 09 8:33 AM

Well put Bittersweet.
No need for my rebuttal. Your thoughts expressed why we are here. To learn and educate ourselves. Not judge, but to be open and honest, a free exchange of thoughts and ideals. To learn.
In the end as you say. "It seems it boils down to ones moral, ethical, or sociological ideals as well."


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#17 [url]

Feb 14 09 3:52 AM

I just thought I would comment on this too. At least the original poster's topic. My girl has absolutely no sex drive either. I'm glad I saw this post coz I was beginning to think it was just me. We've talked about it, but seeing it come from a complete stranger as well validates it (for me). She's told me she has a friend that does it for a German website and she lives with her bf and doesn't want to be touched, kissed..anything. And my girl is afraid to become like that. She already rarely flirts or teases me, and I, like I said, was beginning to wonder if it was me. I totally understand, and she says she's glad that I understand it's coz of her job, but I still wondered if maybe it was just an excuse...does she really want me?...that sort of thing. But now seeing this puts my mind at ease, and I can see now that it's not just us that has these issues.

I still have a drive. She turns me on like no other woman ever has, but when she goes back to work (thankfully, she hasn't had to work very often the past year or so, but when she does all hell breaks loose emotionally for us both) my drive disappears. It took my a little while but I completely understand. So, yes, her job affects us both.

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#18 [url]

Feb 14 09 4:00 AM

QUOTE (UncleLewis @ February 10, 2009 10:24 pm)
...And that is what is the human cost for the sex worker of doing repeated sex acts upon themselves that are not truly desired, but performed on command for a client's pleasure - in response to his desire and not their own...

Both Belea79's and NewShoes' responses to my questionnaire suggest that the "price of pleasure" for clients is often paid by the sexual performer in the form of the loss of sexual feeling and responsiveness- a kind of emotional and physical exhaustion. That is what the medical literature finds with regular sex workers who experience "cold violence" at the hands of clients and pimps..  These sex workers learn to keep his or her own body at a "psychic" distance while at work in order to better tolerate the stress of enduring repeated sexual penetrations that are not "desired" - however much we might believe that they were "consensual" because the client bought and paid for them. Over time, these performers can become numb to sexual feeling entirely - in what has been called a "splitting of the self" into two persons. one professional and public..the other real but hidden.

So could this be also true of commercial sexual relations in the virtual world of camming? It may be all "fantasy play," but the sex acts models are asked to perform on themselves remain all too real. Could this be what Belea and New Shoes are getting at with statements like this one:

Yes I would say so. That makes total sense.

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#19 [url]

Feb 15 09 1:18 AM

Yeah I know you do not wish to read a response from me.


So what are you going to do about it? Support her in her work, keep her company while she works there? Are you willing to watch a part of this woman's psyche you care so deeply for, wither and become some alter ego because of this?

Do you not read between my lines? I am not just throwing crap against a windmill so I can appear as some heartless, uncaring asshole.

Do you catch my drift again? As much as you care and love this person, will you be able to handle or accept and be capable of dealing with the aftershocks?

Do you believe for one second I do not understand anything regarding this at all?

I wonder, if all these women working in this industry say they put up with all of it so they can have a better life. To afford things they could otherwise never be able to afford before.
A few years in cyberia, and I can put myself through school to obtain a better job and make more money, isn't that one of the means to an end you all speak about?

And duh, it is about the money in the end isn't it. Throughout history, there have been great people that never graduated from any College or University with that prized piece of parchment or degree. They went on to effect a change, for society for the good of mankind. Do you need a degree to be smart?

And what of all the people that never entered this business and still strived and got what they needed in the end. Are you dismissing all those people, or are you off handedly, discriminating and belitteling them and their hard work as well, because they did it a different way?

Seriously, let's have a real discussion about it.
My Mother and Father lived in the worst of times,were dirt poor, and were worse off than anything or anyone I have spoken too these days and damn it, they made it!!!! And they lived in Eastern Europe too. So what ye say now?
How much and long are you and her willing to continue with the consequences and any possible repercussions because this is the job they need to survive? Will you both be the same after it is all done and finished? hmmmmm............

In the game of seduction, there is one rule, never fall in love.

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#20 [url]

Feb 15 09 4:43 AM

QUOTE (Bittersweet @ February 15, 2009 02:18 am)
Yeah I know you do not wish to read a response from me.

You had me right here.

I just wanted to share my experiences just like NewShoes was doing. That's all. That's what this forum is for. So other people and models can see that they are not alone and share their feelings and experiences. I feel their pain and I concur with UL's assesments. That is all. Why must you be so damn judgemental?

Seriously, I'm not asking for your approval. You don't know me, my "friend", our relationship or how we live our lives. I don't think you understand a thing. Only your own bitter self interests. You act as though your agenda is to make everyone as bitter and angry as you. And if we are not, there must be something wrong with us. It's getting old, and it doesn't help.

Your absurd line of questioning is going to push people away and no one will want to share their feelings or thoughts if they are going to be judged by their "incorrect" answers. Case in point.... I saw this thread last night and felt good. It helped -- which is one of the main reasons I come here. Then tonight I read your post and it pisses me off and makes me not want to ever share again or come back. You talk down, assume things and then leap to other subjects that are completely off topic. Take UL's advice. Please.

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