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Apr 25 09 4:11 PM

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Hi

I have been a member on MFC for approximately 2 months now. Intially, i naively thought the girls on these sites would be uneducated girls who did not mind doing the job as it was well paid. However after reading some profiles and speaking to the models, i found a significant number to be very educated and currently studying at college/university etc.

What i would like to know is, are there no other work alternatives, to allow them to pay their school fees. There must be thousands of students who have to pay for their education, but i dont see them all on these sites. I feel really sorry for these girls but at the same time is this just the 'easiest' way for them to earn quick money.

These girls are just like my peers when i was at university and in a strange way i have alot of respect for them but find it unimaginable why an educated girl would resort to this especially with the risk of pirated copies of their performances now circulating the web.

I look forward to your replies

Dean
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#1 [url]

Apr 25 09 4:16 PM

Welcome Dean..

Your questions are shared by many of the members here. Indeed if there's anything that has united us all, it is the effort to understand why this new kind of "Virtual Sex Work" has attracted so many university educated women from "middle class" backgrounds. Look at our discussion with Bailey here, and you will see that this pattern of recruitment is also true of mature industrial countries like Australia, the UK and the US as much as it is of Eastern Europe, Latin America or Russia.

I think that you look at the pinned topics in "Models Issues" and "Sexual Tourism" and "The Situations in xxxx" you will find many threads that deal with your question.

And of course, the same is true for the topics in "The Doc's Reading Room," where I would recommend that you look at my "Preliminary Research Findings."
Thanks for joining in the conversation, dean.

UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#2 [url]

Apr 25 09 5:27 PM

Dean, the sad part that you will eventually discover as you speak with older models
is that many of them have graduated with advanced degrees and still need to
work cam sites.

You never know for sure if you are told the entire truth when speaking with a
model; at least I do not. But, you will hear some say that it is simply not possible
for a woman to find a job that pays enough for a reasonable apartment, food
and clothing in a big city.

It is hard to really know. I think back to just graduating from college - could I
have afforded to move to NYC, into my own apartment, in a good area,
in Manhatten, right after school? Probably not. I would need roommates.
Probably lots .

So, in the end, I don't know. You are right though, there must be many thousands
of such women in Romania, and most are not on cam sites or other sex
work, I would assume.

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#3 [url]

Apr 25 09 7:24 PM


I think the lure of money affects us all. Many of the top girls who are also students, make enough money in 1-2 weeks to pay for their education. However they still continue to put in the hours over the month. Materialism has affected the whole world and unfortunately these girls are not immune from this. In their profiles, many note that they are driving BMWs and Audis.

There is one model who i have offered to send some money to help with her costs but what worries me is as you mentioned, many just continue after their studies with the cam world. I think to myself, i am trying to help her so she has to work less but if she will continue after, is there any point.

Additionally why should these girls have a nice apartment, clothes etc. Life is not easy, you have to comprimise at times, drive an older car, smaller appartment, cheaper area..I left uni with 25000 of debt (student loans) and still paying it off. There must be companies in romania who will provide a loan for your education costs. The more i think about it, the more my 'sympathy' diminishes.

ps, unclelewis this is a great site and i applaud you for your commitment to helping the models

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#4 [url]

Apr 26 09 4:07 AM

It would not surprise me if there are no loan options for education in Romania.
Scholarships are an option for some. But, I do not think education costs what
it does here. So, that being said, is doing the normal thing - eg: working as a
waitress in a restaurant an option? Can a person make enough doing that to
live with 3-4 other people, pay tuition, buy books, and eat Mac and Cheese?
I have no idea; I do not live in Romania. And what about outside of Bucharest?
Are there less expensive places to live that also offer a good education?

One woman told me she makes about $1,000/month. However, while she has
a very high "cam score", she is never close to the model of the month or whatever
MFC calls it. So, I would guess the top ones earn 2,3 x that amount. But, they also
seem to work crazy hours. 60 or more hours a week? And the top earners are
usually younger - early 20s.

But, one way some of the top earners are making it is by getting pretty raunchy in
free. Others, just lucky with very good looks and the right age to know what to
do.

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#5 [url]

Apr 26 09 5:30 AM

Hello Dean, and rs3,
This is a topic that im constantly struggling with. I wonder if these girls are being truthful with there profiles which some say for example : Occupation/Major: Sociologist
School/College: University
As time goes by and the months turn to years it makes you wonder why there still there.
I do know that in Eastern Europe theres a few camgirls who claim to be in serious debt.
They told me the reason there still doing the job.
Apparently if they wanted a "regular" job , the debt they owe would be painfully attatched
to there wages. " Much like child support is in the USA ". Perhaps there able to avoid paying it in chat.
It dont leave you enough to rent ( pardon my language ) a f-ckin 1 bdr studio, not to mention food and all that applies to surviving.
So anyway, i thought id throw my 2 cents in and i wish you guys the best .

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#6 [url]

Apr 26 09 6:11 AM

Sort of like the old days in the US with company towns and stores, no doubt.

One girl I saw got breast enlargements and paid with a wad of cash she flashed on
cam. My first thought was: I wonder who owns her now? She hadn't been
on long enough to earn that kind of money.

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#7 [url]

Apr 26 09 3:12 PM

Guys, most of these women on MFC work for legal studios - and in Romania for instance can get regular working papers after a certain time on the job... so this counts as a "good job" because it pays so well in comparison to most other service sector employment.

A studio admin from Bucharest told me in March that more than half of her recently hired models are either students or university graduates, and this confirms the data I collected two years ago that's posted in "Preliminary Research Findings. Even so I think that we are seeing more women with only High School level education recently on MFC.

Overall we are seeing women who have tried all the alternatives - and found that this is their "best option for now." As one Romanian model with an MA in Tourism told me last Spring; "I found that my degrees were worth nothing, so I decided to try using my body for awhile." This model lasted about five months online before quitting. But others stick with it because it pays enough to support them and to help their families.

We must remember what we are told over and over again: "I am not stupid. I know what I am doing. I choose to do this work.. and now I don't wanna talk about this shit anymore."

So most of the studio models seem to feel that while "they have no choice" - especially if they want to stay in school - they also don't want to be seen as "victims who are in need of rescue." Especially rescued by a bunch of "pervs." One model told me last week: "You are wrong to think that we are toys for these pervs. That's only true if you allow it. If you are smart, then they become your toys instead."

Another Romanian model remarked : "Don't be so quick to judge Cam Models. You only know what they choose to show you. So why are you talking about something when you have no experience of it?"

I think that the conversation must start from there, or it won't start at all.

UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#8 [url]

Apr 26 09 11:23 PM

Good point UL,
One thing ive noticed over the past couple years is that there`s been less begging for
credits from most of the girls in chat. I think thats what made people think that there
suffering. As far as there " best option for now " attitude, lord only knows how long that will take. I feel a little sorry for that Romanian model who fought tooth and nail to achieve her degrees. But then again, one doesnt go through 4 to 6 years of college to become a doctor or lawyer without knowing the outcome of all there hard work.

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#9 [url]

Apr 27 09 1:56 AM

Yes, if there is one thing I've learned from here, it is that it is very unlikely any model
I've spoken with holds me in very high regard. I find that rather ironic, but that's
ok.

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#12 [url]

Apr 28 09 10:10 PM

Be careful where and what answers to these apparent riddles you seek a logical answer to,you may not like what you find, or learn too much.

Some friendly advice.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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Lesia

Talkative

Posts: 28

#13 [url]

Apr 30 09 12:49 AM

I'm Polish, not Romanian, but here there is no option of getting a 'student loan' for a nice, low % that you start paying off after you graduate and earn money... like for example in the UK.

Alternatives? Of course, there are many!
I'm 19 and I had a real job for 3 months I was a receptionist in an office. Working 8am-6pm, 10h a day, 5 times a week. Now I'm going to school 3 days a week, doing nothing most of the time, just having fun. And living the same life

I could work 4 days a week, go to school 3 days a week... But what's the point? This is easier, more convenient (I work from home, don't have to g anywhere, noone tells me what to do) and pays off better My family knows, my friends know, my boyfriend does it with me... I lead a happy, easy life. I'm in love, I have a nice appartment, loving family, I educate myself (in a course now and learning 3 languages) I don't have to check how much something is before I buy it, a lot of free time and most importantly, PEACE OF MIND. I'm free and I don't have to do anything.

If someone with higher morals prefers to slave away 7 days a week, why not let her do it? Each to their own

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#14 [url]

Apr 30 09 1:18 PM

Thanks for sharing you point of view, Lesia.

How much could you earn as a receptionist compared with what you earn online?

It's interesting to learn that you work as a freelancer with your BF.

Aren't there some hidden costs for your relationship in doing this kind of work?
Look at what New Shoes had to say about the impact of doing cyber-sex on her personal sex life with her husband.
Not true for you?

http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=1148

UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#15 [url]

May 2 09 4:26 PM

QUOTE (rs3 @ April 26, 2009 05:07 am)
It would not surprise me if there are no loan options for education in Romania.
Scholarships are an option for some.  But, I do not think education costs what
it does here.  So, that being said, is doing the normal thing - eg: working as a
waitress in a restaurant an option?  Can a person make enough doing that to
live with 3-4 other people, pay tuition, buy books, and eat Mac and Cheese?
I have no idea; I do not live in Romania.  And what about outside of Bucharest?
Are there less expensive places to live that also offer a good education?

One woman told me she makes about $1,000/month.  However, while she has
a very high "cam score", she is never close to the model of the month or whatever
MFC calls it.  So, I would guess the top ones earn 2,3 x that amount.  But, they also
seem to work crazy hours.  60 or more hours a week?  And the top earners are
usually younger - early 20s.

But, one way some of the top earners are making it is by getting pretty raunchy in
free.  Others, just lucky with very good looks and the right age to know what to
do.

eg: working as a
waitress in a restaurant an option? Can a person make enough doing that to
live with 3-4 other people, pay tuition, buy books, and eat Mac and Cheese?
I have no idea; I do not live in Romania. And what about outside of Bucharest?
Are there less expensive places to live that also offer a good education?


I do live in Romania so...I know and I can say that is impossible to work as waitress and take care of ur bills, school, family... and whatever else u need. I quit school so I won`t say now that I want to get back in webcam work for this, but I still have a family that i must help, bills and other personal things...and most important ...i have to live:D I used to have a "normal" job and couldnt live with money that I earned there...around 200 Euros. And about places outside of Bucharest...well I lived near Bucharest and there's no future there...

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#16 [url]

May 2 09 7:58 PM

It's funny, the more I think about all this, how much my opinions
have changed just in the time that my notes have appeared in this
thread.

They are still changing, but the real question I struggle with is
this: normally I can befriend many an intelligent woman. This does
not make mean any more than exactly what it says. It most certainly
has nothing to do with sex and sexual attraction.

So, for reasons I am not going into, one travels about the internet
looking at porn, and one comes across a website like liveprivates et
al. Well, that place is a zoo, with only one two two steady models
I could find, and I never trusted them with a credit card, anyway.
So, that was not very interesting. Anyhow, fast forward a year or
two.

I wandered into MFC one day and found it to be a bit more stable,
the women generally more likable, and the business model, in
particular, a third party handling my credit card, better.
Particularly since I already did business with that processor
anyhow. So, I joined.

And there I found two women whom I liked a great deal. One I spent
a great deal of time writing to, and she would respond, oh maybe 1/2
the time, and the second, I wandered into her room and she said
either "talk or leave."

The first is becoming a mess from cam-ing. By her own admission, it
is affecting her health as her mind rebels against the whole thing.
Sadly, her mental state pretty well ended whatever friendship we
had. I just don't have the energy to try again. And quite frankly,
I don't want to end up as sad as I've heard others say they are when
she bails out of this, which she will soon enough. Age alone pretty
much ensures the end of her "career" pretty soon. I spent so much
time trying to get to know this person, and in the end, it didn't
work. But, I do not really regret it. I am angered some, but
mostly just sadden by it. I know that most nights, she is doing
what she hates, living frugally (she does not do this to become
rich, she makes just enough to get by), waiting for a change, and
the only changes I know that are certain is increasing age and the
increasing crop of those who will do anything will eventually make
it so she either can't make a living or she will be forced into
doing more than she wants, with the attendant mental and physical
damage coming close behind.

At any rate, I can't see her ever writing to me again, and like I
said, I really do not have the energy to try and rebuild whatever
friendship we had. There is nothing I can do to help her, anyhow.

So, with this came the realization it would be a really good idea to
stay away from MFC for a while. But, now I do not know what to
about the second woman. Were we friends? We spoke often since
October, I think. Most days. I was never a "big spender", but I
did occasionally like to give decent tips for no reason at all.
But, 200-300 tokens? Is that really all that much? $30? Was her
only reason to talk with me so much just plain boredom? I have a
hard time believing it really was just money simply because I did
not spend very much. I never even had a "private" with her. We had
certain things in common - I don't feel like describing the details,
but they exist.

I'll probably write to her in a week or so, but I suspect she will
probably just respond "lol". That is her typical response when
dealing with something she doesn't feel like talking about. So, my
guess is that there is no future with this person either.

I'm starting to use an analogy of a good bartender. A good
bartender will often get to know you, and so long as you keep going
to that bar, you'll get a great "hi ya", and good conversation when
the bar isn't too busy. And you do not need to be a radical tipper
- just a decent person. But, normally you do not see that person
outside the bar, and if you change bars, you do not see them again,
and sometimes they get a different job and they are gone. Maybe you
run into them in Walmart and exchange a few words.

But, sometimes not. Somtimes there is more there.

And that is where my thoughts end today.

Now, someone beat me up with words :-)

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Lesia

Talkative

Posts: 28

#17 [url]

May 2 09 10:33 PM

Well Uncle, as a receptionist I earned 8.5 zloty an hour. That's over 2$. On cam it varies... but on a good day it can be even over 100zloty....

If it affects my relationship? Not at all. NewShoes is one of the top models, she puts a lot of time in her cam work. She has 2 childred to feed and raise too! We don't We have just ourselves and our own pleasures. We don't do the job to get rich, we earn just enough to lead comfortable lives.

What we do is an act, not reality. So it doesn't affect our real sex or love. We log on once in a few days... in a week... and this does it.

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#18 [url]

May 2 09 10:55 PM

rs3,
The last thing i would ever do in this life would beat you up with words.
Ive been in the same boat with ya for a long time and i respect you for
the courage it takes to write about your feelings here.
I have been in love and always will be with a girl from Czech.
One day i insisted on knowing how she felt about me and this is what she said.
" I like you alot, yes love you, but i dont feel like ive fallen in love with you.
In fact, i dont think ive ever been in love before with anyone. "
Well, i actually flew to see her for about 5 days, she picked me up at the airport
and drove me to the hotel. Without getting into details, we had a great time.
Ive offered her a life to come be with me without ever having to ever work again.
Weve had more than our share of problems since we met.
When you mentioned she responded to your emails half the time made me think
about my situation. It`s painful when the only source of contact you have is emails
and when shes online working. She works for MFC and SHEISREAL.
I wish i had the strenght to back away from MFC like you mentioned, but when i see
her log in, its nearly impossible to not let her know im there.
Might do me some good to back off for a week or so, it would certainly make her wonder what has happened, and perhaps id receive an email or two from her .
Anyways, thanks for reading rs3 and i wish you all the best.

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#19 [url]

May 3 09 4:23 AM

I noticed similar responses or views, in how some models feel when making a comparison between working as a camgirl and working (slaving) away in a "normal" job.

How do you think it makes a person feel that does work in another profession other than camming? Have you thought about that? Have any of the models thought how they would feel if the situations were reversed? But then, of course, if the shoe was on the other foot, I believe most would say, I would not be visiting those places(porn camsites) in the first place.

Because a profession, (as I have written a long time ago somewhere on this forum), pays less than another, or is not as "easy" as camming is, does that make it bad or a terrible job to be employed in then?

How many members believe the bio's of these women? Are they all bi-sexual? Do they all attend school? Did they even write them? What is the truth?

rs3, Dean, and YM, are you trying to break an addiction? Have you come to some conclusion that causes a conflict between what is logical and your emotions?

What do you think about this post from someone somewhere else then?




Why is it Romanian women are predominent in the industry?
Their society? A master slave relationship between men and women for centuries that still exists.
Girls introduced to sex at a very early age as there is no other form of recreation. They are programed that sex and a flirtatious nature will get them ahead in a poor society. Thats all they have! That's what they are bred to use.
Bored? Hmmm Let me entertain you and pass the time.
Girls that were programed by their society to excel in this industry.
As their economy is poor they are pushed and coerced into the industry by husbands, boyfriends, pestes and web pimps to better their lives. The ladies do the work for 10, 12 hours a day, the boys sit back count the cash and look to other women for satisfaction. Their own ladies burnt out.But they love em!
Innocent girls turned into predators by society. When school ends most will continue as the alternatives will not provide them the cash to mantain the lifestyle they have grown accustomed to. Will their men be around when the bodies grow older and the earnings disappear? Or look for someone younger to supply their lifestyle they are living at the expense of another.
Ladies that are brainwashed convinced they have no alternatives.
Slaves to society. Convinced by others that the internet has provided them an opportunity to bilk others of their hard earned money with fraudulant lies.
A society that has been Fxxking each other over for years but now has found an avenue to scam the rest of the world that is compassionate, caring and holds a belief in words others may speak.
Sad but true. All Romanians are not in this catergory, but those that work the internet have honed their craft at the expense of others. Convinced that what they do is okay irregardless of the long term fallout to them or others. As long as the masters are pleased!
YES BE CAREFUL!


I think this applies to others as well, not just for Romanians. Have any of you thought that just maybe self-esteem, or the enjoyment of being desired by others, or some type of control is being brought into play while everyone is interacting with each other?

Of course, other possibilities are likely too. Remember one thing, if not for you and other members there would be no need for any of these cam sites. Do you see how cause and effect works yet?

If a member is not held in high regard, then after all is said and done, a member is definitely the toy. And who has become the prey? Connect the dots.

As a model once told me " a member lets themselves become the toy." They then logically set themselves up to be hurt or used. Even when your not paying for it, your paying for it in the end. We all pay for it in the end. Don't you think so?

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#20 [url]

May 3 09 5:36 AM

Well, Trainer, that is really the question, isn't it? It is fairly easy to see women on
those sites who would almost certainly prey on you. Actually, woman number
one I mentioned above specifically talked about this one time. She really hated
doing that - she hated the whole idea of using people. I think she knew she was,
even with her modified approach to working, and it is one of the things that is
still hurting her with actual physical results.

The other: hmmm... she is a hunter, no doubt. But, a nice one :-) I don't know.
We'll see in a bit. I will send her a link to this thread, no doubt. I really don't
think she has ever lied to me in any way or really tried to do anything other
than be herself.

Both of these women are very, very experienced, as well. Neither is acting
out of ignorance or just learning how they want to behave.

When I first came across this site, I was strongly swayed by what certain models
wrote. The utter disrespect they felt for their customers, etc. Those writing
made me as if I had been completely duped. But, I am not an idiot either. I study
inconsistencies in patterns of various sorts all the time. I really can't spot
the lie or the falseness with either of these two people.

To be sure, at one time I did. But, we talked about it, and I am relatively convinced
that the strange reactions from one are a result of the depression she is suffering
from and nothing more.

And to any model reading and thinking: I would never go to these sites or whatever.
Well. I'll just stop there. If you respond, expect to hear some real anger.

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