#61 [url]

Dec 21 09 4:49 PM

Yes, indeed..and that's why we're here...
Helping to dispel a little bit of that old magic
and take away some of that (industrial) "charm.."
UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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tealoneal

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#62 [url]

Dec 21 09 4:49 PM

QUOTE (facile911 @ December 21, 2009 11:32 am)
.....yes all the girls are actors,  and it’s just fantasy, sexual and  ahh! Companionship…  So the model I know put on a death show for her client, because that his fantasy. And yes it’s still posted on the site, in fact it’s the second  of such showers that were recorded … she deserves a “Oscar”


Facile, I think your snuff film argument is a non starter. There is zero evidence that a single snuff film has ever been made for entertainment purposes. The idea that simulated orgasms, friendship and love on a cam site are going to lead to snuff films is without merit. Snuff films are no more a reasonable extrapolation of current cam norms as it was of the simulated pornographic films of the 70s. It didn't happen.

Now you are saying that there might be simulated snuff films - kinda like what we see on prime time television on a nightly basis. Again, this is pure conjecture and has no basis in reality. However, if cam actors want to enact death scenes on cam then I suppose it would be no less legal than most Hollywood slasher flicks and TV adventure shows.

Lets keep things in perspective;

I think the dramatic extrapolation weakens the more constructive message around here. Chat hosting is a legitimate business in which a host provides companionship for a fee. Lets acknowledge that and get on with discussing the emotional and financial dangers that we know about.


QUOTE (facile911 @ December 21, 2009 11:32 am)
I’m sure other people in the “community” would  find it obscene  if they read the model manuals on how to milk a client because he’s deluded.

So Teal you say  that  snuff films shouldn’t be posted on cams site,  because u find it  not so nice, and our Friend trainer finds models who  fool, defraud or cheat an unsuspecting person with friendship, love and sex, Not so nice at all…. Now  which one cause the most damage?

So people  in porn can do what they please, exploit deceive play, fantasize, lie , encourage, have fun, manipulate, drive to bankruptcy,  have a wank,  tell jokes, just as long as they are not Obscene

Mj wouldn’t tell any of her clients about CGN, because it would hurt her bottom line…..  She’s not responsible for them, and she shouldn’t have to be 2…..

Conflict of interest. 
So yeah , maybe  with all its fun  and fantasy, sham and drudgery  I can’t see what harm  regulation would bring.


This thread started with a frank discussion by Miss Jane about a member who was falling for her. It's an important issue and one that I think gets lost when we resort to finger pointing, moralizing and extrapolation. There are dangers. Sometimes hosts contribute to milking a client who has fallen for her. Sometimes she doesn't. That's an individual decision that will reflect individual ethics but it isn't something that can be regulated unless we are prepared to regulate all human interaction. In the real world guys fal' for girls and pay for expensive gifts and dinners only to learn that she never really had feelings for him. Sometimes a man will tell a woman that he loves her to increase his chance of having sex with her only to drop her when he has succeeded.

Should we regulate dating to make sure that nobody gets hurt there either?

Consent is present. The people involved are adults. Nobody will die and it is highly unlikely that anyone will be physically injured. What will happen is that we may spend too much money or feelings may get hurt.

Sometimes people are more likely to listen is the message isn't wrapped in a drama complete with villains, vixens, evil intent and an endless parade of victims.

If, as I've said all along, the universe is — at any time — what you say it is ... then say! - James Burke
I miss Markland

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#63 [url]

Dec 21 09 5:24 PM

This last part of the discussion reminds me of the anguish of Victorian Maidens who sued their x-fiances who jilted them for "breach of promise."

But the rest of the discussion was - as Cool Breeze has already noted - both a breath of fresh air and a bracing but ice-cold shower - an antidote to the usual "heat," that's all too rare in the "Charm Industry.."

UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#64 [url]

Dec 21 09 6:46 PM

So in essence it boils down to buyer beware.....why should it come down to that though. And I might add that line for any business/client relationship, for that in itself indicates something is not on the up and up,and people just want to get over on the next person,true?.

LOL- can you imagine installing lie detectors on women or men in the cam industry with sound effects or for that matter hook the members up as well, during their business dealings to indicate unethical or immoral behavior?. Maybe I am onto a new reality show.

As far as actors or actresses they have no direct interaction with the customers(movie goers) so the analogy of lying I do not think can compare to the INTERACTION between the model and the client. They are portraying a role but it is not intended to fool or deceive for the purpose of making more money easier.

Come to think of it, I think there should be regulations. To protect all parties involved. Like I said before, If all it is for, is for sexual gratification then that is its intended purpose. Eliminate the head games and associated courtships. It hurts more than it helps.

As far as the friendship or companionship theory, what stops these clients from joining e-harmony or matchmaker dot com and so on. There seems to be something else involved that we all are missing here.

Ah yes.... could it be the lure of sexuality,lust and loss of clothing?

How many men would pay to chat with a woman about any topic in reality? I think there is some psychological issue we might all be missing if people do it. Is it the opportunity to chat with a foreigner? Or to learn about other cultures? Then why would I need to go to a porn site to have that opportunity? There is more to it than just simple companionship.

Basically,A model might get excited or thrilled by having the control and power over people that visit them in their chat rooms. The very act of being complimented and sought after is a natural high for them. That in turn leads to some becoming addicted to the work. And then to be lusted after, wow, what a high and confidence builder that can be. One thing leads to another, and it becomes just as addictive as it does for the member. Ah yes, we forgot the financial part of it all which makes it so attractive.

Money is a powerful motivator for those that are addicted to it and lust after it. The odds increase when you factor that in for unscrupulous acts for many. So if it is done in the real world why not add it to the fantasy world of camming. It's quite evident that the industry needs better regulations, just because of piracy for one thing.Just like any other legitimate business does have by law.

If it was just for companionship then and we have to pay for it, then we all are in a lot of trouble socially.

There is more to it. A lot of it has to do with the sexual connotations, the flirting and the idea of doing something different as well.

Lying may not be illegal but it definitely is not moral or ethical. Same with cheating, and being a confidence man or woman.

We all are responsible for each other in a way. That is something that is being lost in today's world. No one cares about others that much,unless it helps one's bottom line. Seems we all are becoming more selfish I humbly hate to admit. Sorry, just my opinion.(I hope I am so wrong about that).


Good discussion guys and girls. Thanks..again.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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Odessum

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#65 [url]

Dec 21 09 8:25 PM

Every time again i read your posts I realise how bigga difference there is
between the sites you have experience on...(free-private-ones)
and ours...

1. MFC is NOT the reference at all in this business, LOL...
MFC-management is blowing themselves up on every possible forum...
totally out of proportions...
please do not look at Alexa or other "traffic-messure-tools"
cause the free-chatters are counted also as traffic...

2. Clients behaviour

- in our contracts is stated very clearly
"it is forbidden to ask or even write e-mail - or any messenger adress,
nor personal adresses or telephone numbers"
> this to protect the privacy of the models
> to protect our investment in promotions and publicity

"it is forbidden at all times to ask or to accept money"
> speaks for itselves...

"it is forbidden to have personal contact with visitors
offered or not offered financial renumeration for it"
> clear enough...

> All chats are logged ...all chats have searched engine alarming us...
for words as...@...western union...msn...yahoo...etc...

> when repeatingly seeing this appear or when seeing serious
abuse against the rules...the account is closed...
as simple as that...

I need to add another thing...(I can speak from our si(d)tes)

Clients are the ones proposing...90% of the cases...
Clients are the ones typing their mails...
Clients are the ones proposing to visit and meet in real...

Are girls trapping the clients into virtual "love" ?
In a way...sometimes without wanting...i guess...
doing her job soo good that it is mis-understood...
but i really have all proof in the logs of chats where in 90%
of the case...the visitor is leading the dance...

Interesting for us too...all this...cause we really avoid all bad
consequences what can occur...

We try to avoid...when it still happens without us seeing it ?
for example the sending some dollars or euros...
I have but 1 message..."nobody forces them to do so..."
= he who does...is a fool...and mostly realises after...and heales...

(there were exceptions to this rule...as said before 7 marriages in 7 year)

let the flood of critic come...hihi

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#66 [url]

Dec 22 09 12:06 AM

Yes, Odessum, your absolutely correct. For the most part it is the members that do force themselves onto a model,by sending their email or other info.

I see it all the time on all those free sites.

But I will honestly say this, that the reversed occurred in my case. But that is a touchy subject and personal for me. I should have been stronger and followed what my mind said and not follow my heart.

Back to the discussion...

So Odessum, what you are basically saying is your company or you follow a strict guideline and set of rules to protect the models or is it to protect the members that visit? Or probably both parties involved?

So how would you suggest that it not happen? Do you give a warning to a model that they have crossed and broke a boundary or rule, respectively. If that is not adhered to, do you actually penalize a model or simply fire those that fail to follow the rules that are broken?

And one thing that did stick out that I noticed, was that you wrote you keep logs of all chat, is that to protect the models or to keep a tight ship? So in simple terms when a rule is broken by a member, do you close the members account or is the models account closed? Not sure if I understand that part?

Yes, your absolutely correct that in most cases it IS the member that attempts to go beyond what the "business" model is when you look at it objectively. So what can or does happen when freelance models work from their homes, the opportunities increase or are more available that personal involvements could happen. For those circumstances, I believe it is up to the model to lay the law down perhaps.

Do you think your websites or models or studios are more profitable than any of those free chat sites?

Finally, How did those 7 exceptions to the rule occur? If I am not mistaken you did say that there were 7 marriages between models and members,am I correct? Sorry I am curious about that.

Thanks

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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Odessum

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Posts: 89

#67 [url]

Dec 22 09 12:43 AM


[/QUOTE]So Odessum, what you are basically saying is your company or you follow a strict guideline and set of rules to protect the models or is it to protect the members that visit? Or probably both parties involved?

QUOTE


To protect both yes, but in general to create what we call "fair play rules"...


So how would you suggest that it not happen? Do you give a warning to a model that they have crossed and broke a boundary or rule, respectively. If that is not adhered to, do you actually penalize a model or simply fire those that fail to follow the rules that are broken?
QUOTE


Warnings do not have any effect...
According to the sevearness of breaking fair play, the accounts are suspended
for 1 till 14 days, with a message "why" "how long"...and if repeatingly happening
the account can be suspended forever, yes sure...
When putting rules...one needs to be consequent in all and for all


And one thing that did stick out that I noticed, was that you wrote you keep logs of all chat, is that to protect the models or to keep a tight ship? So in simple terms when a rule is broken by a member, do you close the members account or is the models account closed? Not sure if I understand that part?
QUOTE


Keeping logs is done not out of perversity...lol...but just to have proof if anything serious occurs...If everybody knows the logs are kept...lying makes no sense in a possible discussion...see ?

Do you think your websites or models or studios are more profitable than any of those free chat sites?
QUOTE


Absolutely sure, yes...
It is a very studied choice as free chat to obtain privates
is a total different ball-game...
Also our visitors coming inside, already made a choice..they want to be there
full of concience...


Finally, How did those 7 exceptions to the rule occur? If I am not mistaken you did say that there were 7 marriages between models and members,am I correct? Sorry I am curious about that.[QUOTE]

Like i told before, we really guide in all...not only training and financial...
also personal...the models know they can speak, can share experiences...
So if we see it is serious they can meet...but only guided...
This happens only few times..but it does...

So...leave you, hope you got your answers

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#68 [url]

Dec 22 09 6:50 PM

Well just to clarify Odessum, the 'free chat site' scenario being descrined here is not refering to MFC but more like IMlive's set up. (MFC is more public group show oriented, not one on one contact- although it can happen anywhere on any site even pay per every minute sites as was pointed out. Its just more prevelant on sites like IMlive because of the set up. Because models rooms there usually have an average of 5-15 registered members in it at a time. And there is no time limit on the free chat, so members usually come on and attempt to engage you as long as possible there.)

In regards to suspensions, I have never heard of a site suspending a member for giving personal info, or even issuing warnings. On those sites its more of a 'please do not give the models any info' statement when you sign up rather then a strict rule you agree to abide by or risk having your account closed. The sites seem to have a dont ask dont tell policy when it comes to this.

I know many models who recieved gifts and what not from members and on the few occasions that the site sent them a warning, they simply responded with- i know said member from an alternate venue so its ok.. and it seems to end with that. As long as the member is spending on thier site, and they dont suspect youre giving shows or referring members to alternate sites for shows they dont really persue it aggressively against the model.


As for whats the most profitable? Well theres no real answer to that. It depends on the model. How they choose to work. The average pay at the end of the week is roughly 20-30 dollars an hour. In the free chat scenario you can expect to spend 40 mins each hour in free and 20 in prvt at $1 a min. In a free group setting like MFC you can expect to sit for 3 hours entertaining and collecting the equivalent of 60$ in tokens to do a group show which can last all of 5 or 10 mins... so to look at that one can say MFC is more profitable because you only spent 5-10 of hardcore time as opposed to 20. In a pay per every minute connected type site, youre paid roughly 40 cents per minute per member connected. The average holding time is 10 mins which is roughly 4.00 to the model which is about 24$ an hour. But you probably arent going to be performing hard core acts for 24 mins of each hour. So does that make it more profitable? I dunno. Yahoo cam girls have almost no interaction with the client except for the hardcore show, is that the most profitable? Because the 20 or 30 or 50 mins I spend waiting for someone to buy the show, im technically not working.. im just available. Other girls will tell you the most profits comes from videos and content. That they spend 3-4 hours a week 'working'. 2 hours doing live free shows on prvt websites and 2 hours worth of vid clips they record and post for sale.

I think every model is different. What they find acceptable or profitable based on their personality and values.

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#69 [url]

Dec 22 09 11:36 PM

Wow, Miss Jane that's extremely clear..
It's of course interesting that in your "cost/benefit" analysis that you count every minute of "hard-core time" as a negative "cost" in the model's personal tally sheet.
UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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tealoneal

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#70 [url]

Dec 23 09 5:40 AM

QUOTE (Odessum @ December 21, 2009 08:25 pm)
Clients are the ones proposing...90% of the cases...
Clients are the ones typing their mails...
Clients are the ones proposing to visit and meet in real...

Are girls trapping the clients into virtual "love" ?
In a way...sometimes without wanting...i guess...
doing her job soo good that it is mis-understood...
but i really have all proof in the logs of chats where in 90%
of the case...the visitor is leading the dance...

Hmmmm, I disagree with the type of regulation that is proposed in this thread but I don't think it is entirely fair to say that 90% of the time the visitors are leading the dance either. At least my personal experience differs.

I've never once proposed meeting a host. A number of hosts have, however, raised the topic of meeting me. I have no idea what the result would be if I tried to pursue it.

Hosts have asked me if I miss them. When I say "yes" they say that they miss me too. Often it's followed by a piece about how much more fun sessions are with me.

On more than one occasion, hosts have told me that they have dreamed about me.

This is consistent with what other members have experienced. It isn't consistent with the image of hosts who accidentally (without wanting) trap members into virtual "love" in a dance led only by members. The dance is often far too choreographed and the discussions are far too scripted.

So to argue a little of both sides here - I don't think finger pointing and the laying of blame is needed. Feelings may be hurt on both sides of the screen - just as happens in real world relationships.

On the other hand, I don't think it is realistic to suggest that hosts are without control or knowledge over what unfolds either. There can be monetary reward in manipulation - just as there can be in almost every other business.

If, as I've said all along, the universe is — at any time — what you say it is ... then say! - James Burke
I miss Markland

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#71 [url]

Dec 23 09 11:27 AM

Sounds all too familiar Teal.
As say, a dance that has been played out thousands of times, tactics well known amongst the hosts. Let's add to your list.

You may also get " you are different" not like the others.

Ahh, yes many dreams.

Or what do you do for a living? You can give each host a different answer and their father will have been in the same occupation.

I was talking to my grandmother about you and she said?

If you are ever in my homeland I will show you around.

No I have no boyfriend, we broke up a few months ago. I have no friends.

Yes they are consistent Teal. Well practiced and thought out replies with one thing in mind monetary reward.
Well practiced fraudulent lies for their own personal gain.
In the real world, those in business do not hide behind fake persona's, fake locations and fake ideals.
Industry that has been around for decades has endured and had regulations implemented to prevent the use of fraudulent practices.
To compare apples to oranges in this case would not apply. If the adult chat industry is to be compared to another platform, the only viable platform would be within it's own industry and off shoots.

Oddesum

Thanks for your enlightening input. It is good to hear some look after their hosts needs before themselves.
You speak of the 7. Although your sites seem to be unique in their own way. It may happen?
I am not doubting your words. But for most, without hard facts about the 7, could it be these are just words on paper to keep the hopeful hoping and spending or actual fact. Part of an advertising campaign?

Happy Holidays

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#72 [url]

Dec 23 09 12:00 PM

Adent, I don't think that what Odessum told us is pure "marketing." We have a poll open in the Models' section, where 7 or our own model members said they met their current husband, or at least their "special guy" on a cam-site... They were saying this in reply to another model who had said that " not all of them are sick," but that she "would never dare marry one.." to which four other models piped up to say: " Yes, I did.." But that's only 7 out of the 130+ model members here.

As for this discussion about the models' role in encouraging these kinds of pseudo-emotional attachments, I would suggest that everybody re-read the Models Handbook from Flirt4Free, and see what the web-master advises the girls to do..
Here: http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=40

And then read over what Elizabeth Bernstein writes about "bounded authenticity" - that is a friendly emotional relationship between escorts and clients that is limited to a specific time and place without being any less "genuine"....

Middle class sex workers can find clients "likeable" and even enjoy their company - without wanting to ever take those feelings to another level or place.. And those who did, often found their clients rejecting them!! Mainly because the clients liked the convenience of a commercial relationship that was "agreeable and pleasant" but which carried no moral obligation beyond paying their "GF" a fair market price.

Look here:
http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=868

So how different is the experience that these escorts reported about their ability to feel something for their clients while giving them the "GFE," from what some our cam-model members say about their regular clients who are "nice guys?" The same ones they occasionally send here, btw.

UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#73 [url]

Dec 23 09 12:25 PM

Quite interesting to watch this discussion evolve.

The main point is, when do things go too far? When does either side cross a boundary that involves strong emotions and mix it together with the job at task?

How does one use logic vs. emotion to separate the fantasy from the reality?

If it was not for the monetary part of this, we would all be in love,have found happiness and live happily ever after. But, it seems quite a few of us have experienced or have seen and realized that all too often things are not what they appear to be.

So as Miss Jane mentioned, how do you ethically, morally and safely avoid the issues brought up in this thread?

Do we have to add regulations? Can that even be implemented? Remember, the main goal to be popular and be profitable is to keep the client returning for more.

In my opinion, the only real way for it to be real is not to pay for it. It avoids the worst things that can occur.These women are there to earn a living, not to find love, bf's or whatever else, as Andra, Miss Jane and quite a few other models have written here. But once again it is the tactics used and the vulnerabilities of the member and the ethics or shall I say the attitude, moral and ethical behavior of the hosts as well, that need to be regulated too. It falls on the shoulders of all of those involved here.

It will never happen I believe either, because after all we are all human. And the key to making money in this business is to use, grab and hold a member emotionally as a hostage for the most part. That can be said for those that fall in love with a host or vise versa. The same can be said if it is just for companionship, it is the emotional ties that bind people together that are being manipulated.

I am going to use some personal discussions I had with a few models that did explain it to me.

They say," I am here to rub my tits and pussy, it is my job".

I understood that as, they meant they can separate the emotions and human factors that could cause problems within the work they are doing. Eliminate the emotion and give the customer what they are there for.

Then they say" But with you I am being real".

So right there, as some people would say, is the act or portrayal of what some compare it to being an actress.

If a host says that, and then you watch them use the emotional loving and caring role towards most clients, a person could find doubt and skepticism losing trust and in turn eventually changing what might have been genuine and real into a disaster.

Trust, honesty, and logic ..... emotions, love and friendship, mix those together with money and anything can result in a volatile and disastrous outcome.

And that is where the regulation must be used. Will it effect a hosts bottom line, I believe most certainly. Will we all just have to log on for a quick wank and then leave, perhaps. But then what have we all become, masturbating robots? With no emotions no human traits?

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#74 [url]

Dec 23 09 1:56 PM


Odessum , I think I like your model where there is no free chat, no rude beggars, the host doesn’t have to parade around like a show pony to entice a member to go pvt.

Doesn’t surprise me that possibly 90% of members are the one who want to make contact, I just wonder what lead them to make contact in the first place . Also , do you have any advice or rules for your hosts when a member wants to make contact? Surely you look at the preceding logs of interaction of model and member. If you keep logs for Fair Play as you say, would,' it be fair to set the member straight? . Unless its marriage number 8 of course.

Yes I know 2 models who married a member from site. Although one is getting divorced, because he only loves her as an object. A very expensive mistake

MJ is there a site you haven’t worked on? ))) I still think your working if ur sitting in free chatting, flirting and even if your waiting around in yahoo for a customer, your still at your work station..

BTW MarryJane im facile HOT MALE dot cum


Sorry i couldn't help myself

The reverse side also has a reverse side

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tealoneal

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#75 [url]

Dec 24 09 2:25 PM

QUOTE (tben @ December 23, 2009 11:27 am)
Yes they are consistent Teal. Well practiced and thought out replies with one thing in mind monetary reward.
Well practiced fraudulent lies for their own personal gain.
In the real world, those in business do not hide behind fake persona's, fake locations and fake ideals.
Industry that has been around for decades has endured and had regulations implemented to prevent the use of fraudulent practices.

To compare apples to oranges in this case would not apply. If the adult chat industry is to be compared to another platform, the only viable platform would be within it's own industry and off shoots.


Tban, we agree that the script has been written to allow certain hosts to play with members' feelings for monetary gain. Some hosts use it, others do not. The Flirt4Free handbook provided by Uncle Lewis makes it clear that hosts are encouraged to explore emotional intimacy with their members.

QUOTE
” The money is in LONELY MEN and not horny men. If you notice any of the models you see that are in a long l on l show, you will notice the shows are usually talk shows, lots of typing with their outfits still on. The reason is the customer is lonely and wants to talk. Lonely customer fantasies are different than the sex show customer fantasies. Lonely customers fantasize about having a girl/guy like you, about dating you, courting you and maybe even being married to you. They want to introduce you to their friends, show you off and go out on the town with you on their arm. Lonely men do not want to end the show if they still have hope of reaching their fantasies. Sex show customers on the other hand, masturbate and then leave.


...If you can succeed in playing the part of a single person looking for a relationship, that performance will over time attract some lonely buyers, and with that comes longer shows with less physical work, more minutes and more $$$.


But Elizabeth Bernstein. in another link provided by UL, recognizes that authentic, yet bounded forms of interpersonal connection is part of the sex workers' job.

QUOTE
Finally, and at a more general level, in this article I have sought to complicate the view that the commodification of sexuality is transparently equatable with the erasure of erotic and emotional intimacy. Such an argument does not do justice to the ways in which the spheres of public and private, intimacy and commerce, have interpenetrated one another and thereby been mutually transformed, making the postindustrial consumer marketplace one potential arena for the exchange of authentic, yet bounded, forms of interpersonal connection. 


Bernstein acknowledges the emotional intimacy that develops between the customer and the sex worker but she stops short of portraying sex workers as manipulators. Emotional intimacy that exists within the confines of the financial relationship may be exactly what many members want. Hosts who play their role in these intimate relationships are neither unwitting participants nor cold hearted users. Most are human beings playing the role that we have assigned to them.

If, as I've said all along, the universe is — at any time — what you say it is ... then say! - James Burke
I miss Markland

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#76 [url]

Dec 24 09 2:43 PM

QUOTE
Bernstein acknowledges the emotional intimacy that develops between the customer and the sex worker but she stops short of portraying sex workers as manipulators. Emotional intimacy that exists within the confines of the financial relationship may be exactly what many members want. Hosts who play their role in these intimate relationships are neither unwitting participants nor cold hearted users. Most are human beings playing the role that we have assigned to them.



But what happens when it goes beyond that and when it is initiated by the host and not the member? Yes, most of the time it is the member that thinks and believes there can be more to it than just lust and cyber porn.

There is the fine line that is crossed. And that happens more frequently than we all may be admitting here.

It occurs on many websites. MFC is a notorious community that encourages gifts, and private PM's that illicit a deeper more intimate relationship. Now is that to further a monetary gain but adds more intimacy and a more "GFE" type relationship?
Does it promote a relationship that the F4F model instruction booklet is teaching hosts to perform? And MFC is not the only place it occurs.

Many websites have the gifts thing and I believe people get misled or believe anything is possible. Like a man courting a woman for something more personal yet it places tremendous pressure on both parties involved.

An emotional roller coaster where reality clashes with fantasy and where the opportunities to further and pad one's pockets using other emotional relationships. That is where people could and do get hurt. Just as if it was a real life relationship.

Sorry, but I feel there is no reason or purpose for that if this is just a "JOB".

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#77 [url]

Dec 24 09 2:58 PM

Good points Teal and Trainer

They are portraying what the member wants them to be when engaged on site. Being paid for companionship.
When a host persues communication outside of the sites watchful eyes. Once engaged outside of the site, against the contracts they have signed, then what is the purpose.
It is not the relation on site most have a problem with, it is the purpose behind the off site communication that is carried on and the manner at witch it is implimented.
Communication that happens all to often. The underlying question is always, why do the hosts engage in off site communication.
Perhaps for monatery gain, perhaps for their own piece of mind. Their fantasy, to be provided a break from the reality of their daily life and be involved in a life that is more to the norm.

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#78 [url]

Dec 29 09 9:50 PM

QUOTE
Once engaged outside of the site, against the contracts they have signed, then what is the purpose.
It is not the relation on site most have a problem with, it is the purpose behind the off site communication that is carried on and the manner at witch it is implimented.



Well not all sites restrict offsite content. The ones that do, do it only to prevent the model from recieving compensation with out them getting thier cut. They do believe in maintaining contact out side of chat (through thier own mail system) And they encourage you to use it. They just want to be able to monitor it to make sure any compensation goes through thier platform..

What is the purpose of engaging outside of the site? Its either to 'scam' the member, circumvent the site and collect more of the $ paid for yourself, solicit the member to another site where your % will be more or to as I said before appease the member and keep the fantasy alive. Give him more of what he wants so he'll continue to spend in your room. Only satisfied members spend money.

A sucessful model will be able to identify to find what the member wants easily. Which catagory he falls into. And then its up to the model if they wish to fullfill it or let him go find another hostess who will...

But anyway, heres an update on Mr X. The member I orginally mentioned in this thread... I hadnt heard from him in a while. He popped into my room for a bit early in the week, told me he was busy with various things. Trying to get his life in order. Secure an apt, a new job, what ever his issues are with schooling etc.. The next night he came back in again. Spent around 20 mins in open chat and then cracked. Told me he was going to purchase some credits for prvt even though it was clear from our previous convo that he didnt have it. I didnt encourage him, nor did i discourage him. Whatever money he did have save towards his apt is now gone...

He did send me a message later that week, telling me how much he enjoyed it but it was going to be a while before he came back. I suppose the temptation is too great for him and he lacks the self control to spend appropriately.

Now he pops up on my list as a desirable member, according to the site. One that I am suppose to encourage to come back. Im suppose to write him an email, since its been a week and he hasnt been on. Telling him how much I miss spending time with him, reminding him of my schedule, perhaps attaching a few pics. Anything to get him to come back on.

So now its up to me. Do I want to exploit a guy who I know is weak. Call it survival of the fittest. If he cant manage his money- not my problem... Its just a job no?

Or do I let him go. Take pity on him and not lure him back in because its the moral thing to do. The only compensation I get from that is the warm fuzzy feeling from knowing it was the right thing to do. But warm and fuzzy isnt really the same as forced hot air from my furnace now is it? And its cold outside....

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#79 [url]

Dec 30 09 12:27 AM

A couple things MJ…

QUOTE
What is the purpose of engaging outside of the site? Its either to 'scam' the member, circumvent the site and collect more of the $ paid for yourself, solicit the member to another site where your % will be more or to as I said before appease the member and keep the fantasy alive. Give him more of what he wants so he'll continue to spend in your room. Only satisfied members spend money.


There’s one more reason, but let’s not get anyone’s hopes up. You’re more likely to win the lottery. I’d be a hypocrite if I didn’t bring it up though, because I speak with someone in real, yet I’m a member nowhere.

Mr. 9 hours is back. Which brings us back to your original question.

A question that has no clear answer because it’s to do with human emotion and conscience. Yours and his in this case. You’re at work, and obviously doing your job well as you’ve defined it. Providing, for a fee, what he’s looking for from you. Up to you to shatter the illusion and cut the cord, or continue to nurture his fantasy. From what you’ve said here, he’s a “client” not a friend. He’s also not your responsibility. He came to you. Sounds like he’s just one of those where the “warning label” really was necessary.

Which may shed light on the behavior of some performers which others have mentioned here. The behavior of simply cutting all ties, with a complete turn-around in how they treat a member. Seems as if “breaking a heart” might be translated into doing what’s best for that person. Cutting them off because they don’t know what’s good for themselves without having to explain to them that it was all a performance… which they paid to see. I don’t know, but it seems likely. A cold shoulder verses a direct, “hey stupid, it’s not real… use your common sense.” In either case, the performer loses that income, even while they’re doing the member a favor and taking heat for it from the same member.

Thanks for the update MJ. Your voice is always clear, intelligent and tactful. You’re a smart cookie and see things as they are.

Breeze

~ ~ AFFINITY ~ ~

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#80 [url]

Dec 30 09 5:09 AM

MissJane...Are you asking for an outside opinion here? Or just showing us an example of the kind of ethical choices Models are asked to make every day?
Well, this case increasingly sounds like shooting a DUCK in a barrel...
And we both know that's not quite sporting - even if we had been talking of fowl...
UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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