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Dec 15 09 1:45 AM

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I think this would be a great place for this post that kind of says it all or shall I say leaves me speechless?

I recently was roaming MFC. There to my surprise, is a model from Bucharest with a topic of this:

Topic: 80 for adding me on ps3 network and 90 for fighting against me:D soul calibour

This model is barely in her 20's, attends school etc etc....

Is this capitalism in its purest sense? Or is there something some of us are missing or are not being told?

I read post after post, here, and I simply do find it quite hard to not be cynical and to be sympathetic to the plight of others.

Soooo, What do some of you think? Excuse me I am starving at the moment.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#1 [url]

Dec 15 09 9:45 AM

Trainer:

QUOTE
I think this would be a great place for this post that kind of says it all or shall I say leaves me speechless?


The post does not "say it all", it states a single observation and it clearly does not leave you speechless.

QUOTE
I recently was roaming MFC.


Roaming - an interesting choice of word that suggests a lack of clear purpose. If you were not there as a paying customer, friendly fan, horny voyeur or frat boy looking for kicks, can I ask what you were there for? After all, it is a site where people are engaged in activities that clearly cause you some anguish. The internet is a big place with plenty of other things to see. Are you testing your resistance; keeping lookout on the frontline for controversial titbits to report; or perhaps seeing if there is a damsel in distress?

QUOTE
There to my surprise, is a model from Bucharest with a topic of this:

Topic: 80 for adding me on ps3 network and 90 for fighting against me:D soul calibour


Surprised, why? That she says she is from Bucharest? That she is a model? That she wants tokens in exchange for a bit of interaction? That a girl enjoys gaming? It's not so different to models trading messenger or email details for tips.

QUOTE
This model is barely in her 20's, attends school etc etc....


Nothing out of the ordinary there. A young woman, on a cam site. A "student" of course. You've been roaming before. Who would you expect to see there, if not someone like her?

QUOTE
Is this capitalism in its purest sense?


Um, probably not in it's purest sense, but it is capitalism.

QUOTE
Or is there something some of us are missing or are not being told?


Is there a conspiracy? A shadowy underworld? Are events not entirely as they seem? Are important facts being withheld? What dark forces are at work? What sinister plots and schemes? Do things look different when viewed through different eyes? Is capitalism inherently evil? Does a gamer girl in Europe realise the true meaning of her actions?

Why do you include "us" in your musings? Is there something YOU think you are missing or are not being told?

QUOTE
I read post after post, here, ...


You do more than just read post after post. Are you searching for particular information? Answers to your questions? It's a forum, many conversations and points of view. Some you agree with, some you don't, but it's open ended. There is no point of "enlightenment"; no single answer or definitive position.

QUOTE
...and I simply do find it quite hard to not be cynical and to be sympathetic to the plight of others.


That is a shame. It is good to try to be less cynical and have sympathy for other people's situations.

QUOTE
Soooo, What do some of you think? Excuse me I am starving at the moment.


Well, you asked what I think. I think this post, like a large number of your posts is actually about you. This is not a criticism, just an observation. You have a recurring fascination with the world of cam sites but they trouble you. You like to interact on this forum, and yet you don't always connect with people the way you would like. If you are feeling jaded and want to reconnect with people and empathise with them then I suggest you do some volunteer work locally. Pick a charity or help group that works directly with people, perhaps the elderly or homeless or disadvantaged. It may give you the perspective you seem to be looking for and give you positive feedback for doing something constructive. Maybe at the same time it will help you forget your own troubles (temporarily at least). Of course, if you do already volunteer, then all credit to you. It's just what sprung to mind when I read your post.

I'm sure you weren't expecting a reply like this after watching a girl playing on her PS3.

(By the way, if you are of a sensitive disposition I do not recommend playing Soul Caliber. However, if you can stomach lots of over-the-top fantasy violence it is an excellent form of stress relief.)

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#2 [url]

Dec 15 09 11:28 AM

Hexenduction..hmmmm
Are you just commenting ..or trying to bait ol' Trainer here into another flame war which will keep us all distracted from the main discussion?
I have advised him not to reply to your reply...I hope he listens to me.
UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#3 [url]

Dec 15 09 1:35 PM

QUOTE (TRAINER @ December 15, 2009 01:45 am)
I think this would be a great place for this post that kind of says it all or shall I say leaves me speechless?

I recently was roaming MFC. There to my surprise, is a model from Bucharest with a topic of this:

Topic: 80 for adding me on ps3 network and 90 for fighting against me:D soul calibour

This model is barely in her 20's, attends school etc etc....

Is this capitalism in its purest sense? Or is there something some of us are missing or are not being told?

I read post after post, here, and I simply do find it quite hard to not be cynical and to be sympathetic to the plight of others.

Soooo, What do some of you think? Excuse me I am starving at the moment.

Hum... Yes, i think you can say it's capitalism. On mfc, models are asked all day long to show tits, add as friend, watch cams (as a quote : "Who needs to see 50 cocks by day ?") and you can imagine what happens for video games in a room full of lonely young men.

There is demand for it, models choose the price of the offer. I don't believe it's only for money, it's also a way to regulate it. I don't really understand what leaves you speechless... I've many examples of more surprising requests for tips.

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#4 [url]

Dec 16 09 1:05 PM

Well, Hex, I suppose I will have to respond to your dissection of each sentence in a similar manner, so here goes, but first:

I sense that your pro camming for these women, so be it. I am against it nowadays. To each their own as they say. Pardon me Uncle, this reply will attempt NOT to start a flame war, lol but is merely being open and obviously it is to answer Hexs questions and observations

I will say that at this time and point in my life, I would be better off being the one graciously accepting some financial help as I truly do struggle day to day. If not for the good graces of one family member that supports me with food, I surely would have to spend most of my time on line for food staples. Pardon me, I live in a western developed super power, with a decent job that was once the love of my life, but alas the global crisis effects everyone in the world, and I do not live in an Eastern European country like many in this industry do. (I apologize I can not take the time to help others at the moment like I have in the past- my bad). So in comparison, I do find it reasonably ludicrous that a person would tip for playing a video game. I mean would you?

If I did have the financial resources, I certainly would help others as I have in the past. And do it in a more constructive manner as I have mentioned on this forum. Sorry, for being a disappointment and self serving nowadays. Or maybe I learned my lesson well. Sorry that was all about me, lol.

Now back to your replies:

[QUOTE]
I think this would be a great place for this post that kind of says it all or shall I say leaves me speechless?


The post does not "say it all", it states a single observation and it clearly does not leave you speechless.[/QUOTE]

This post says a lot about the different issues facing models that live in different countries around the world as Bailey has brought up. It seems that quite a few women DO claim to profess their constant troubles and despair from this models country,and what I was stating simply is, How would others view it that a woman who has not lived a full life, asks for money on a porn site to play a game? Excuse me if I DO find the obvious idea for her to think that she deserves MONEY just to play a silly video game when things are so bad in a country such as hers. IT IS A PORN SITE- Sisyphe, not a gathering place for friends and socialites to chat and enjoy each others company over a glass of wine, lol, as I have seen other models do too. It is a business as Odessum would say and I am quite certain he would not stand for that sort of thing simply because to him it is a BUSINESS.
So yes, it does leave me speechless to say the least. Perhaps, I should wear a bra and panties and ask for tips to have you speak with me, I am sure there is a market for that, lol. HMMM..

[QUOTE]QUOTE
I recently was roaming MFC.


Roaming - an interesting choice of word that suggests a lack of clear purpose. If you were not there as a paying customer, friendly fan, horny voyeur or frat boy looking for kicks, can I ask what you were there for? After all, it is a site where people are engaged in activities that clearly cause you some anguish. The internet is a big place with plenty of other things to see. Are you testing your resistance; keeping lookout on the frontline for controversial titbits to report; or perhaps seeing if there is a damsel in distress?[/QUOTE]

Lol, been there done most of the above, except for the frat boy one. What I am doing there is reporting here what I see.Lol, its a free world, and yes I use the internet for other things too. Was I being untruthful or embellishing what I quoted? I do not go there to be a horny voyeur, just watching women sell themselves to men and women that can afford to pay for whatever they feel like it. Or attempt to be that singular stud or perfect match for a women seeking to earn a living at my expense. Maybe I am looking for pirates, lol, there are many of them there, or can you refute that? After all I have seen and heard from others, it deserves much scrutiny for reasons other than you believe I am there for.

[QUOTE]
There to my surprise, is a model from Bucharest with a topic of this:

Topic: 80 for adding me on ps3 network and 90 for fighting against me:D soul calibour


Surprised, why? That she says she is from Bucharest? That she is a model? That she wants tokens in exchange for a bit of interaction? That a girl enjoys gaming? It's not so different to models trading messenger or email details for tips.
[/QUOTE]

Lol, Oh yes it is very different to messenger, as many models here have mentioned, it is a place to make money, but how does one make money interests me there, get my drift? It is not, for a gathering at a dinner party or a night out on the town for these women who work hard to make ends meet in this industry. Oops, apparently, it is NOT so hard to earn a living there,and I point you towards many of the requests I have seen on MFC for example. It is quite funny and quite sad at the same time when you look at it objectively. Perhaps, that is what we all are having issues with. Here Hex, let me use my credit card, purchase some tokens, to win a gift of panties from a model and I will send it to you as an X-mas present. Ooops, so sorry, I destroyed them 3 years ago. Greedy bastards they are.
I could have easily used a model from, the USA, Canada, Colombia, Prague, Bratislava, Sophia, Iasi, and on and on, as other examples. Seems thats the motis operande these days on that particular website for models to employ, lol. But the point was that I constantly hear how bad things are in Romania. And as a westerner, I think things deserve further scrutiny with respect to all in the cam industry. Go figure.

[QUOTE] This model is barely in her 20's, attends school etc etc....

Nothing out of the ordinary there. A young woman, on a cam site. A "student" of course. You've been roaming before. Who would you expect to see there, if not someone like her?
[/QUOTE]

I suggest you pull your head out of the sand. Although many of these women are in their late teens and early 20s, I find it disgustingly warped that men of the age range of 35-60 or even older frequent these sites in search of naked scantily clothed women for their enjoyment. Perville, lol.
Is porn a luxury or a necessity for those that visit these sites, hmmm?
If you bothered to actually look at the demographic makeup nowadays, I see many women older than the age of this model work on these sites, whom are married, divorced, with kids, and non students as well. I refute your statement that it is just that these women are 20 years of age or from Bucharest. But seemingly, Romania, as a country that is struggling with a political system that has no focus or direction other than to keep the status quo, I remind you that corruption is so much a part of daily life there. Are they outsourcing it to the rest of the world? Nah, its everywhere. Hmm I just thought of a tourist marketing idea now.


[QUOTE]
This model is barely in her 20's, attends school etc etc....


Nothing out of the ordinary there. A young woman, on a cam site. A "student" of course. You've been roaming before. Who would you expect to see there, if not someone like her?[/QUOTE]

Ok pardon me, opportunistic? Manipulative? Fun and games? Ah it is just a job.

[QUOTE]
Or is there something some of us are missing or are not being told?


Is there a conspiracy? A shadowy underworld? Are events not entirely as they seem? Are important facts being withheld? What dark forces are at work? What sinister plots and schemes? Do things look different when viewed through different eyes? Is capitalism inherently evil? Does a gamer girl in Europe realise the true meaning of her actions?

Why do you include "us" in your musings? Is there something YOU think you are missing or are not being told[/QUOTE]

I dont understand where this came from, but alas, she is oh so very young.US as in everyone who visits these sites or this forum etc etc But could you please explain to me, how her actions and her topic, quite obviously hints to why she IS there?

Is it to be capped by pirates? She certainly is a wanted commodity. It is the same actions that make Romania the leader in sending its women flocking to work in this industry. Isnt that something that needs further scrutiny? Or as long as they CHOOSE to do this work it simply is oki doki. I think as Uncle stated, that it is an economic dark force, and a failure of its people that makes this work their only viable means of an EXCELLENT job. Is there something deeper to it, absolutely resoundingly YES. But of course, I am trying to point out that we (that means all of us who demand this crap are one of the root causes for these women to willingly attempt this job for whatever reasons). Congrats, we all are responsible for it. Sorry if I have a higher view and a more positive way for a person to be constructive than making my fellow man orgasm into a towel or squirt and prove their manhood for a model on cam. That is quite funny when you imagine it.


[/QUOTE]I read post after post, here, ...


You do more than just read post after post. Are you searching for particular information? Answers to your questions? It's a forum, many conversations and points of view. Some you agree with, some you don't, but it's open ended. There is no point of "enlightenment"; no single answer or definitive position. [/QUOTE]

Once again yes, all of the above, like all the rest that visit this forum, dont be so nave now. So then why are you attacking my position, views and thoughts about it. I do believe I have posted quite a bit of material that IS informative and some of it not even sexual in content or personal. Take those blinders off, or are you a horse, Mr. Ed? I also wrote that because others have judged me to be the enemy of the state so to speak. So be it. I am trying to quit my addiction to this forum perhaps, lol

[QUOTE]
...and I simply do find it quite hard to not be cynical and to be sympathetic to the plight of others



That is a shame. It is good to try to be less cynical and have sympathy for other people's situations.[/QUOTE]

Ah, this makes me laugh, for many years prior to me finding this forum I was indeed quite sympathetic and most trusting. Please dont single me out because I disagree with others, lol. LMAO, I had asked one recent model I once was very close with, to be sympathetic and understanding towards other peoples(me) situations, damn, I must have missed something or was searching for a miracle. Sorry being selfish there.

[QUOTE]
Soooo, What do some of you think? Excuse me I am starving at the moment.[/QUOTE]

I was not lying there, in my last sentence. When someone(me) has spent much time helping a friend out of their situation and watch them attain their university degree only to see them return to this work, seems to produce a cynical view of many motivations of people. Sorry, that was not the only instance, lol. Seems a system where its very structure deprives people from having the opportunities to do WHATEVER they want OTHER than be a cam girl, then I will surely stfu.

I wonder where a person such as Odessum, whom clearly states that he treats all these women with respect and affords them many opportunities would say to this? If I may ask, has he donated money to the thousands of struggling other of these models countrymen and women who can not work in this industry? Has he volunteered as you suggest, Hex, to give of his free time for others less fortunate than a camgirl? Perhaps, one could donate or build a free of charge school for those that dont, wont or cant work as a cam model to attain an education, hmmm?

Until then, I will now be more sympathetic to the nave lonely men that wander aimlessly into this porn cyberworld because porn is forced upon them in oh so many ways. Where it, for many, becomes an addiction or a compulsion. Where many models have told me that they feel sorry for all that do visit these sites. That they tell me there IS something wrong with these people. How does that make you feel when they think of most visitors in that manner? Or should I NOT help those nave models who do get captured by the lustful pirates that have nothing better to do with their time. Ooops, sorry they can set their recording programs to auto pilot and go screw their wives or gfs while they download porn for them to share with others, lol.

Hum... Yes, i think you can say it's capitalism. On mfc, models are asked all day long to show tits, add as friend, watch cams (as a quote : "Who needs to see 50 cocks by day ?") and you can imagine what happens for video games in a room full of lonely young men.

There is demand for it, models choose the price of the offer. I don't believe it's only for money, it's also a way to regulate it. I don't really understand what leaves you speechless... I've many examples of more surprising requests for tips.

Regulate what, Sisyphe? The price to have a lonely man play video games with a woman online? Is that a way to make money or to make friends? Remember, it is a porn site, many other models that have written here would be angry to think that they have or had to show their tits, pussy, and anal talents etc. for money when they could have played a video game with a customer. Maybe, I should charge you tips or tokens for the freedom for you to reply to my post and let me reciprocate a reply as well.

Finally, for the most part, Uncle Lewis has asked me to post what I have found or researched on this forum. I admit I am not looking to appease people here. I am just speaking my mind just like any model or non model member does here. This forum is about everyones trials and tribulations involved in this cyberworld of fantasy. It is not a forum where we can share videos of private shows without the consent of others. Or play video games either. I think what I have written here, explains what I think and feel and how I have watched it affect everyone, from my friends, to strangers, to of course me. Open your eyes wider, Hex.

If you will excuse me, I have to go hope that I will get paid since my paycheck is a day late and complete my resume in a place where there are no jobs available.

Ah Capitalism at its best..

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#5 [url]

Dec 16 09 3:49 PM

Reading what you've said her room topic made me tilt my head for a second too. She's enterprising.

And you had every right to post this observation, btw. I think it's an interesting highlight. I also thought your response to Hex was, for the most part, well said and appropriate. You could have done without the name calling and sarcasm though. It weakens your position.

I'm sorry to hear about your current situation. Times are tough all over and for the masses. You're certainly not alone. Let's hope that the old adage holds true, that sometimes we've got to be broken down before we can be rebuilt into something better, stronger. Hang in there.

Breeze

~ ~ AFFINITY ~ ~

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#6 [url]

Dec 16 09 4:06 PM

cool.gif Well said Breeze.. and I agree.....
And what Trainer said is about his own situation is certainly relevant..

This "Great Recession" is turning into the "Men's Recession" - where female employment will soon exceed male employment for the first time in US History...
And for those who are not being fired.. All too often they are having their wages cut...

All of this is relevant background for understanding a) the sudden influx of American women who are frequently single moms or the married moms of small children into the cam-industry as they seek to make up for the incomes lost by their male partners, and b) the changes in the way women are marketed to groups of clients in open rooms who can no longer afford to take them private individually.

There are more topics open on the rapidly deteriorating economic and political situation in the US and its social fall out in both "The situation in the United States" and in "Off Topic.."
Look here for instance:
http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=1558

In any case the cultural "time/space" distance between the US and Ukraine or Romania seems to be shrinking with every passing day - and not just in Cyber-Space..

UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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Odessum

Chatter Box !

Posts: 89

#7 [url]

Dec 16 09 9:19 PM

Hi again...

Trainer,

as a matter of fact, my wife and I, provided furniture for a school in Romania
which was burned down...yes from our money and even helped it install ourselves...

as a matter of fact, our credit cards (i know...capitalistic symbol) are specially chosen, cause of the fact that for every X-amount we get or transfer, X-cent goes to orphens...

Believe me i can go on, but i nope, i do not applicate for the Nobel-price...

Only...I start to understand you better...

I just wanted to share this and wish you (trainer) betterness in your situation
and hopefully finding the job that you deserves...
Read good..the job which deserves Trainer, cause between all your lines I read
your wish to make it better for everybody...

Only...we cannot for everybody Trainer...we just can try in our surroundings...
and according our means...

which we really do...
(whith money coming from this too..)

About Romania...umfff....special country and population...

Greetz

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#8 [url]

Dec 16 09 9:29 PM

QUOTE (TRAINER @ December 16, 2009 01:05 pm)
Regulate what, Sisyphe? The price to have a lonely man play video games with a woman online? Is that a way to make money or to make friends? Remember, it is a porn site, many other models that have written here would be angry to think that they have or had to show their tits, pussy, and anal talents etc. for money when they could have played a video game with a customer. Maybe, I should charge you tips or tokens for the freedom for you to reply to my post and let me reciprocate a reply as well.

First, i didn't try to deny the right to be surprised and to post about this room topic. Second, the conclusions about romanian political system and world economic crisis go a little too far for me and this 15-words-long topic, so my answer will stay more narrow (or narrower, i'm never sure).

I said "regulate" because, when this topic has been chosen, 3 or 4 members were already asking to be added and to play with her. And she couldn't play with all. With this topic, when a member asks, the simple answer "read the topic" is enough to do a selection. It's the same to be added in friendlist, but in this case, it's to not be submerged by pm. I'm not sure this kind of tips is her main source of income.

Well, with the end of the quote, i should admit, it's my turn to be surprised. Yes, it's a porn site and so ? People are free to spend their money as they want. I have already tipped for many silly reasons not linked at all with porn, sorry if it makes you or other models angry. But if you try to make me pay to post, i'm not sure i will do.

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#9 [url]

Dec 16 09 10:16 PM

Sisyphe, Of course you can pay for whatever you wish.

Now I point you to these topics and articles to stress my point.

http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=1401

or this study:

http://zhe.stanford.edu/spring06/corruption.pdf

Or from a few women that work as cam models and live in Romania.

Perhaps a 19 page study or European articles might further your knowledge instead of a 15 word summary from me.

Sorry, did I force you to pay for it or am I manipulating you into paying me for the opportunity to reply to me here?

Hmmm, shall we begin to charge people here who use the resources:i.e. "how to submit a DMCA letter" or just general info services that I am sure you have asked about awhile back here? Nope, I am not attacking your reasons for being here, just acknowledging the opportunity to make a quick buck or euro for services rendered perhaps.

On second thought,I really do need the few tokens because I pointed you towards learning more about a country and it's real life situations. And about people that you know of that live there,other than playing a silly video game or watching and spending time in a chat room on a porn site. Maybe we all need to look a bit closer at what we are really doing?

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#10 [url]

Dec 18 09 3:16 AM


Well I think most of trainers post is more about society in general. Yes its a strange world when a girl can profit from playing video games. And not only does she profit but the affiliates as well as the owners profit as well.

The only part I'll address is this part

QUOTE
many other models that have written here would be angry to think that they have or had to show their tits, pussy, and anal talents etc. for money when they could have played a video game with a customer.



Am I angry? Umm no. Not really. Like Ive said before theres many different ways to work in this industry. To profit from it. You just have to find what works for you. What youre comfortable with whether its hardcore or softcore group shows or one on one prvts.

Is it irritating? Yeah. I guess so. But no more irritating then thinking about the money collected in and what a small percentage of it goes to me. I mean Im the one doing the work and on average 60- 70% of the money I dont see. The most irritating player in all this from my pov is the affiliates. That theres some guy out there collecting 25% of what I make for doing nothing more then posting links and directing people to the site. True not every member is coming through a referral which just means the website is profiting 60-70% off me. lol. Now thats irritating. But thats the way it is.

I also dont have time to be jealous of what other models are doing. If some girl found a way to profit with out dong hardcore acts, well, good for her. I can try to see if her routine works for me but meh,.. I think its a cute gimmick but I believe it will be rather short lived. Perhaps it was a different model, or maybe its the same but theres one I know of on MFC that plays mario go kart naked with the members in her room. The few times Ive caught her on I never heard her ask for tokens for it but maybe she is now...

Anyways, if anything its kinda ironic. All those posts about gonzo porn and its effects, this is the total opposite of that. People paying for softcore entertainment lol. If softcore entertainment is the future of camming then I dont know how many models would complain!

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#11 [url]

Dec 18 09 12:48 PM

First I would like to respond to a few that wished me well here, and say thank you for that.

Secondly, I want to elaborate a bit further in why I brought this up. After all this time, after all the experiences, observations, discussions and arguements, hopes and dreams, in the end, in my humble opinion, nothing has changed about all of this except that it has made a select few richer.

My skepticism and cynicism has developed because I have spoke with many a woman or friend or stranger and have concluded that in the overall scheme of things nothing has changed that makes life easier for people as a whole.

This industry has surely helped a select few. Empowered a few to have more self esteem perhaps. For a few to afford material things and live better or to assist those at a time when they are in despair. But, in the long run, it has not changed the primary problem that most people in all the same countries as these woman are from to have more choices available.

Uncle has it correct. If you read his "why I am not okay with this", it says it all. If you read all the posts here on this forum, for the most part, you get a sense of how important people, in general, have chosen money over more important life things. So be it, the world has become a more selfish, more greedier place than it once was, which not only makes this work more acceptable but as we all can attest to, is in some respects, very related to the global economic collapse we all deal or dealt with as well.

Topics like friendship, love, trust, respect are plentiful here. I ask you why? You think about it. Take your time. I am sure if all of you objectively think about it, you will come to the same conclusions why they have lost their true purpose and value in life as all human beings when it comes into play and how they are used within the motivations of others within this industry.

We all have lost sight of what these precious human traits are all about and substitute others incorrectly as an excuse.

Some say they are there to be a friend, or that they found true love. Or have found respect or my self esteem etc etc.... Have you really found that? To say I will spend money on others as an excuse for those emotions or satisfactions, I believe is a lie.

All these things are free and never ever should have a price laid upon them. But alas, money can buy so many things, and when that is done, it lessens and cheapens its very meaning purposes. We all know we can meet people in reality and find all these things in real intimate settings for free. We all know we can chat as friends on yahoo or similar programs and be real friends. Or find real love or erase the lonliness that may imprison a person. You do not have to pay for those things, yet we make excuses and place a price tag on those things and use that as an arguement for their cases to visit these websites and sit in chat rooms for hours on end. In fact it is anti-social behaviour. You say it hurts no one, but I believe your wrong. Just read other forums, or the forum of porn addiction and how it does effect innocent people who do know people that seek pornography.

Yes it is porn, no matter what or how we look at it. It is a billion dollar business as has been written by studio bosses and website owners here. What really is my simple issue is not that women or men display themselves as an object or a commodity, but it is once again, how people do, do it. Over and over again, time and time again, the evidence speaks for itself. From the members that pay for this, from the owners and bosses and affiliates to the models themselves, your all admitting your there to earn a living. So it is, if you want to pay for porn go ahead, but don't use or abuse others.

If you sit and watch any of the popular models chat rooms on, for example, MFC, you will find egotistical people, arrogance, jealousy, anger, arguements, and many other things. It is a downright disgusting act and obvious display of greed and arrogance. And why? It is all about money. It is truly sickening to watch people think they are better than others simply because they have money and will and can pay for this. I find that even more sickening than everything else. Yep, this is what it is all about. Sorry if I am moralizing, but to me, this is not normal social behavior to say the least.

So I will leave it to all of the rest of you to continue on, and do whatever you want. That's what got us into the position we all are in, in the first place.
If a person wants to pay for playing a game, or to chat or to watch another person get naked and masturbate it is their free choice. I just find it proves how much we all have lost our way.

Take care and good luck.



The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#12 [url]

Dec 18 09 1:19 PM

Hmmm. we knew about the affiliated web-masters - some of whom are also the ones posting model's private shows on their own web-sites... But what's interesting is your statement that the Web-content providers are taking 60-70% of the fees paid by customers...


We were told that on MFC and PF the web-cam studios or the models who work directly for MFC as independent contractors are getting a 50/50 split with the web-site.. and that the Romanian or Slovak studio models were getting 50% of their studio's share....which works out to about One Euro per minute for private sessions....

Not true? Is the studio share closer to 40%? And the girls' share more like 15% to 20%?

Perhaps my question and your reply don't belong in trainer's topic but rather this one started by adent that deals with changes in pay-outs? Look here:
http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=1557
Or our much older topic on payscales in Eastern Europe compared with pay-outs worldwide? Look here for the latest info we have on that.
http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.p...topic=153&st=25
Thanks
UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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Odessum

Chatter Box !

Posts: 89

#13 [url]

Dec 18 09 6:10 PM

Guys...

still there i see...

i can speak for western european sites with NO free/private = always private

what customers pay = 100%

what promotors get = 25 to 30%

what studios get = 25 to 30 % from this girls get from 35 to 60%

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

left for site = 40%

but from this they have to pay....

- taxes on proffit
- in many countries extra "erotical tax"
- promotion (big cut Google)
- bandwidth
- fraud preventions and penalties

believe me..they not take more then the studios or the affiliates...
its like 33/33/33

Greetz

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#14 [url]

Dec 18 09 8:55 PM

I dont know who you include in 'web content providers' uncle. If you mean the affilates and the website itself then yes, that is correct.

But then it becomes- what is profit? Profit before expenses or after? which is what Odessum was exxpanding into.

Heres a more specific example of what Odessum is saying, in reference to that particular site. Now keep in mind that site offers no free chat so this is per min that the member is connected. Also the rates vary depending on where the user is from, what payment method they use, as well as how many minutes the models has for the month. The more you work, the better rate you get. But heres a basic example of a mid range model.

User from the Netherlands pays .80 euros/min through pay by phone. The model/studio is paid .20 euro/min. (or 25% of the money collected) The remaining 75% is theoretically the websites profit, however they will tell you as Odessum stated, they pay out aprx 25-30% of it to affilates. (I dont know the specifics of how this particular site pays cause I signed up for their affiliate program yet) but 25-30% is average.

So where were we.. 25% to the model/studio 30% to the affilate, leaves about 45% for the website. And from what Odessum is saying, after they pay out their operating expenses theyre left with aprx the same profit as the model.

That basically everyone gets roughly a third. 33/33/33


On some of the other big name free chat sites the payouts are all basically the same. The model/studio is paid roughly 35% on average. I know their affiliate programs either pay roughly a one time 25 dollars per sign up to the affiliate or 25% of the referred members spending for life. So if member JohnDoe is referred through a % commision link and enters my prvt room for 2.99 a min- I am paid 1.04 of it. The affiliate is paid .75 and the website 1.20

(That is what I was saying is irritating to me. That some affiliate guy is earning 75 cents a min for doing nothing more then passing around the link. Now I know if there were any affiliates here they would cry foul and state how they invest time and money into promoting it and blah blah if they didnt that member wouldnt be there but I dont really agree. Not when youre talking about the big name well established cam sites but I dont know... Its the same thing as trainer 'smirking' looking at a model earning $ for playing video games I smirk at the affiliates. I cant believe someone is paying you for spreading a link, and not only spreading a link, but one in which Im the one the doing work on! Im the one exposing or expoliting myself on, but I guess we all choose our own paths in life. Choose what were going to do for income in life no?)

Anyways, in the above scenario if the member did not come in through an affilate link. I still charge 2.99, still paid 1.04, but the website now gets 1.95. Part of that they use to cover the money paid out for the one time 25$ sign ups, their own expenses and the balance is their profit...

(MFC doesnt really fit into either of the above sceanarios, they pay 5 cents a token, regardless of how much the customer paid for it. Thats why they say 50% goes to the model/studio. I suppose they have a smaller affilate program. I know they pay 20 tokens per basic member referal and 200 if the member goes premuim. )

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#15 [url]

Dec 19 09 12:23 AM

Hmm.... smirking, not really, more like astonishment, or is it sadness, or perhaps watching people thinking they are godlike on a site to gain the favoritism of a particular working girl there.

You see most of the members on that site, who are regulars, are the fat cats in a way. They have money to burn.

After a member(premium) was barraged by a bunch of basics(MFC's version of low lifes) he said, and I quote, " I was a geek 30 years ago, I made my money and I am rich." And other premiums chimed in as well to cover his ass with the fact that they can buy and pay for anything they wish there, touting their purchasing power.

Kinda, arrogant when you witness it. But the basics really laid it on him which made me smirk then,but overall it does not make me smirk. It is selling one's self to the highest bidder. And I know that most models say they give a damn about that or thse members but c'mon, let's be real here. They are in love with the members deep pockets.

I might add, now Miss Jane, of course the basics and guests sit and drool for these members to tip for a free chat show. Like leeches. No wonder the premiums feel like gods there. And they have no quams showing it. Egotistical morons in my eyes.

But the final reality is that the model loves the premiums or any vip member, long time.

Now lastly, shall I say that I feel my topic has been highjacked in a way as I have been accused of elsewhere? Touche to me. Uncle stated that in his previous post in this thread. cool.gif

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#16 [url]

Dec 19 09 11:30 PM

The MFC website says all money goes to girls (and their managers):
http://wiki.myfreecams.com/wiki/Instructio...s_to_the_models

QUOTE
Money goes to the models
After expenses, nearly all of the money spent on this website goes to the models and their agents or managers, if they have any.

This is what makes us so different from our competitors. Other webcam networks pay models as low as 20% of their revenue, and then spend their money on private jets and expensive advertising campaigns.

Instead, we rely on our members and models to spread the word about this site. We generally keep our expenses as low as possible so that we are able to send the great majority of our members' spending on this site directly to the models.

Models are always our top priority. Not only do we pay them MUCH more than any other site, but we treat them with the respect that they deserve and often work hand-in-hand with them to develop new features for our site.

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#17 [url]

Dec 20 09 12:11 AM

This is web-site "boiler-plate" DonkeyKong..The key phrase here is "to the models AND THEIR AGENTS..." ie. studio owners.

Enough said..
But what is true is that MFC does NOT have lots of affiliated web-masters creaming off 25 % of the fees..

Maybe MFCModel or LittleMermaid, Andra etc. will comment on what that actually means in practice.

UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#18 [url]

Dec 20 09 2:59 AM

well Myfreecams doesnt actually pay a percentage, When they post things like you get 50 or 60 percent its a comparative rate. They use tokens. Each token is worth 5 cents to the model. The members can buy tokens at the rate of

200 Tokens for $19.99 (approximately $0.10 per token)
550 Tokens for $49.99 (approximately $0.09 per token)
900 Tokens for $74.99 (approximately $0.08 per token)

or more.

But unlike some sites that deduct the free credits from the models end, my free cams pays 5 cents a token regardless of how much it cost the member per token. This is how they compute it to be payments to the models of 50% or more.

If you buy 200 tokens for 20$ and tip a single independant model she receives 10$. MFCs profit before thier operating expenses is also 10

550 tokens at 49.99 pays out 27.50 to the model and 22.49 to MFC
900 tokens at 74.99 pays out 45.00 to the model and 29.99 to MFC


However if the model works for a studio then she of course wont receive the full amount. The studio she works under takes a cut of anything she earns to cover their expenses as well as their profits...

So I guess you can say if youre a member on MFC and want to ensure most of your money is going to the models and not MFC then buy the largest credit packet since they make less profit on it... Now this is not true on all sites. On other sites when you buy credit packages like this it actually hurts the models because they pay less to the models to make up for it...

And of course out of MFCs respective profits of 10, 22.49, or 29.99 they pay for the things Odessum listed. Taxes, bandwith etc... they also pay out 20 tokens for each basic referral (which is 1$ to the model) or 200 tokens if they go premium (which costs them 10$ to the model) but it sure still seems to leave them with a pretty profit after all that..

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#19 [url]

Dec 20 09 5:03 PM

Hmmm.... How this thread went off course in a way.

It was about how models use various ways to earn a buck, to how much a model, a studio and a website earns.

If I was asked by a friend to pay to play a game, I am sure you all would tilt your head and say "Are you insane?"

If I was in a room with a woman in reality and she was sitting there scantily clad, would I pay her to make love to me? Or would I pay her to get undressed?

OMG- For those models that make a living from this go ahead, there are plenty of people who have no problems or see anything wrong with it. There are your deep pocket suckers. But don't tell me or anyone to be silent or that I am crazy lol because I see something wrong with it.

In another thread someone said "Is it the job of the model to say no to the member or set them straight? Or whom is responsible for whom? We all are responsible. Otherwise there is nothing but chaos.

Btw-facile, the casinos, well the reputable ones, do place adverts saying if someone has a gambling problem here is a number to seek help. And yes, the owners DO instruct their dealers to know when a person is addicted and can ask them to leave the casino. Just like a bar is responsible to not serve anymore alcohol to a drunk person, because they are libel for their safety. Same goes for cigarette companies writing a disclaimer on their products and on and on.

SO YES, IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF ALL WORKERS IN THIS INDUSTRY TO TAKE PART OF THE BLAME OF ALL OF THIS.

It is time to end the unscrupulous deceitful practices. I am here as proof and to keep people honest, and yes I do that in reality too.

Now back to this topic. Who in their sane mind pays for this stuff? Can one say that something is emotionally and psychologically unstable within this arena? Many doctors have said yes to that.

On a personal note, I look back and find that the last relationship I had, over and over I tried to not get hooked into the fantasy aspect involved with it. I said it over and over, time and time again to most I did talk to there and to one person in particular. When most saw that,and realized I would NOT be played they saw me in a different light.

But to listen to a woman tell me they are here for me in reality but then use their work ethics in their reality was enough for me. Don't play any person like that. In my opinion, that was what hurt the most. Which leads me back to the topic and the premise here in this thread.

Simply, Should I or you all, pay for anything in life just because? Just because another person is less fortunate? Just because they are beautiful? Just because they tell me some sob story that may or may not be true? Just because it is porn? Just because your insecure and need to pat your egos to prove your worthy because you CAN pay for this stuff?

Damn.... something just aint right, here is it?

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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