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Dec 15 06 8:40 PM

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I have heard that there was a TV report that described another studio being raided in Donetsk. It was on the channel NTN which is based in Donetsk. I don't know this for 100% yet--I haven't seen any newspaper reports or anything online yet...but it's coming from a reliable source.

Any follow-up information (websites, articles, anything) should be posted here.
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#2 [url]

Dec 15 06 9:10 PM

This is babel-fished, so hopefully will be updated.

Anyhow, here goes:

In Donetsk "were discovered" mini -porn-studio
13:55/on 14 December, 2006, | Anna kurtsanovskaya

In Donetsk it is possible to purchase video and DVD-products with pornographic content. And this despite the fact that only in this year there has been 38 criminal cases for violations of paragraph 3 of article 301 of the Ukrainian Criminal codee for the creation and propagation of pornography, and of the seizure of more than thousand video cassettes, and also of about one-and-a-half thousand DVD CD - disks.

By especially this activity in the large markets, which are occupied by the realization of cassettes and disks. But from the small markets leads the so-called "parapet", located on the southern auto depot. Is certain, for the merchants of "klubnichkoy" this advantageous business. The prime cost of disk kolebletsya from 5 to 7 10 kopecks, and it realizes on the market for 40-50 10 kopecks depending on the quality of porn film. However, usual artistic film, including pirate production can be purchased for 25-30 "half copeck coins". Those penalties, which pay in the criminal cases the criminals, putting it mildly, do not beat along the pocket, and they continue to be occupied by illegal, but profitable activity.

Frequently the salesmen of the designated goods order production on the foreign sites and they obtain with the aid of the usual email; therefore to pravookhranitelyam not easily this channel to reveal and to zadokumentirovat'. But recently a revolution in the propagation of pornography has occured through the Internet in real time, i.e., with the organization of the activity of mini-porn studios.

Information about existence of certain "original" studio in The budennovskeye region by the colleagues of the Donets division was obtained this autumn. The assembled materials of the dosledstvennoy checking law court were considered sufficient to justify issuing a decree for conducting a police inspection of the studio

When the militiamen entered the place, in the private house were about ten girls-models, who were living there, and three translators... The clients of the studio were mainly from the USA and the European Union. During the raid 9 notebooks, 3 desktop computers and some web-cameras were confiscated - the means by which chat dialogue was accomplished in real time. Some objects of a sexual character were also confiscated.

One of the organizers of studio insists on the legality of its business. He assures, that the girls did not bare their bodies before the cameras, that the entire contact with the clients was reduced to a verbal game,but the fact that there were iz"yatye objects and and bookkeeping speak clearly to the contrary.

The Truth must established by several examinations. The first - computer- technical, with which the experts must reveal the information, which is contained on the hard disks of computers. The second - art criticism, with which the specialists, anart critic and a psychologist, must give theor conclusions about presence or absence of pornography in the revealed information. And already after obtaining of the results of examinations, will be given the llegal jusdegment on the criminal nature of the activity of the Donets businessmen of specific direction.
This report is based on materials assembled by the Center for connections with the community GU MVD of the Ukraine in Donets region.

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#3 [url]

Dec 16 06 7:39 AM

I am not an expert...but I would say that now would be a very good time for Ukrainian camgirls to either go independent or find a new career. I realize that it's very difficult to find another job that pays the bills like this one ...but it's getting really dangerous out there, apparently. The police are, apparently, not just going after money--if they were, it would make no sense to release it to the press...and if they are going after money, then it's in sums so exorbitant that the studios are unable to pay. I would guess that they're attacking studios for "fame and glory"...maybe some new upstart in the police force who wants to prove himself by attacking some of the porno studios that are, apparently, corrupting glorious Ukraine . Because it's obviously the police's job to raid studios in that broadcast what may or may not be pornography instead of catching murderers and other hard criminals .

It's certainly not a good situation....not only are these studios being attacked, but apparently people are being prosecuted and, consequently, lives being ruined. Just be careful, Ukrainians...

P.S. I noticed an error in the title...it says "studios" but should be "studio" (singular). Can an admin change that? thanks!

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#4 [url]

Dec 16 06 7:53 AM

A similar article, and my translation of it

user posted image

Милиция в Донецке накрыла порностудию

Донецк, Декабрь 14 (Новый Регион Киев, Сергей Уланов) Порностудия, работавшая в режиме реального времени через Интернет, выявлена в Донецке. Об этом корреспонденту Нового Региона сообщили в ЦОС УМВД Украины в Донецкой области.

Информация о существовании некой оригинальной студии в Буденновском районе Донецка сотрудниками отдела была получена этой осенью. Собранные материалы доследственной проверки суд счел достаточными для вынесения постановления о проведении осмотра объекта.

Когда сотрудники милиции прибыли на место, в частном доме находились около десяти девушек-моделей , живущих там постоянно, и три переводчика клиенты студии, в основном, пользователи США и Евросоюза.

В ходе осмотра были изъяты 9 ноутбуков, 3 системных блока стационарных компьютеров и несколько веб-камер, с помощью которых и происходило общение в режиме реального времени.

Изъяты предметы сексуального характера и бухгалтерские документы, сообщает пресс-служба УМВД.

Впереди несколько экспертиз. Первая компьютерно-техническая, при которой эксперты должны выявить информацию, содержащуюся на жестких дисках компьютеров. Вторая искусствоведческая, при которой специалисты, искусствовед и психолог, должны дать заключение о наличии или отсутствии порнографии в выявленной информации. И уже после получения результатов экспертиз будет дана правовая оценка деятельности донецких бизнесменов специфического направления.
В этом году в области возбуждено 38 уголовных дел по ст.301 УК Украины за создание и распространение порнографии, а из торговых точек изъято свыше тысячи видеокассет и около полутора тысяч DVD CD дисков соответствующей направленности.

http://www.nr2.ru/kiev/96392.html
http://www.zavtra.com.ua/news/1/39624

*************************

The Militia discovered a Pornstudio in Donetsk

A pornstudio, that worked in real-time through the Internet, was dsicovered in Donetsk. The correspondent of "New Region" received this information from the Donetsk region Press Center of the Ukrainain Ministry for Internal Affairs (UMVD).

The information about a certain "original" studio in the Budyonnovsk district of Donetsk was received by employees of the department this autumn. The materials gathered during the preliminary investigation were found sufficient by the court for a ruling allowing an inspection of the facility.

When the police officers arrived at the scene, in the private house there were about ten girls-models living there permanently, and 3 translators. The clients of the studio were mainly from USA and the European Union.

During the raid were confiscated 9 notebooks, 3 desktop computers and some web-cameras by means of which real-time dialog was accomplished.

"Objects with sexual character and accounting records" were also confiscated, - as the press-service of UMVD informs.

Following are some examinations. The first one - a technical examination in which experts should retrieve the information contained on the computer hard disks. The second one will be an artistic examination in which experts, an art critic and a psychologist, should reach a conclusion about the presence or absence of pornography in the revealed information. And then, after receiving the results of these tests, it will be possible to give a legal assessment of the activity that those businessmen from Donetsk were conducting.

This year alone in the Donetsk region, there were 38 criminal cases started under par. 301 of the Crimnal Code of the Ukraine, for creating and distributing pornography - over one thousand such video-casettes and about one and a half thousand DVD-CD's were withdrawn from the market.

Here's the Photo that was run on Dec.29th, 2006 by MIGnews.ua.com to accompany an article on the Donetsk studio busts that repeats the information given by the police in the article above. link http://mignews.com.ua/en/articles/236006.html
UL
--------------------
Click here to view the attachment

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#5 [url]

Dec 16 06 3:28 PM

[COLOR=red]Thanks for all information...sigh...New Year is coming and poor police workers need money for celebration
But i dont think advices to find another job r very useful. U never tried to do it here...have u tried to stay without work month or two without knowing what will be in future? Very bad experience i can tell...All we can do is to believe in something better

I am already given to the power which rule my destiny.
I am holding on to nothing, thats why i have nothing to defend.
I have no thoughts, thats why i will SEE
I am afraid of nothing, thats why i will remember myself.
Silvio Manuel

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#6 [url]

Dec 16 06 3:31 PM

QUOTE (delfina @ December 16, 2006 04:28 pm)
[COLOR=red]Thanks for all information...sigh...New Year is coming and poor police workers need money for celebration
But i dont think advices to find another job r very useful. U never tried to do it here...have u tried to stay without work month or two without knowing what will be in future? Very bad experience i can tell...All we can do is to believe in better

Ok Delfina, but i hope you will find a better job very soon, perhaps the new year will be better, let's hope that..

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#7 [url]

Dec 16 06 4:34 PM


Delfina..
I don't mean to be an alarmist...
But this really doesn't look like a routine police corruption scam..... where the cops are feathering their nests for next month's Winter Holidays...

Rather this is a coordinated national campaign to bring the porn industry into check by the top officials of the Ukrainian Militia. And certainly to make the shame and social stigma sting enough so that attractive, ambitious students from "well to do" families - who also attend "prestige universities" - will think twice before ever answering an "reklama" for "internet chat" again.

In other words, Delfina, this time they are serious.... with for example, 38 criminal cases for "porn production" in the Donetsk region alone in the past year.. And how many cases nation -wide??? A lot more apparently than the five studio busts we already know about...


So the only way to keep doing this camming thing with a minimum of personal security is to do what your three colleagues in Odessa are already doing online..
In short, do it from home on one's own pc's as an independent sub-contractors of certain western websites ....like the one with its headquarters in Montreal, Quebec.

The Ukrainian cam studios are now clearly targeted.. and will be closed down sooner or later... Can't you see that?

And the consequences for the girls arrested are alot more unpleasant and traumatic than the new spin that your bosses are putting on it back in Odessa would suggest.

But more on their outrageous lies later...

In the meantime, Delfina, please do take care of yourself.
Please?

UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#8 [url]

Dec 17 06 3:05 PM

QUOTE (UncleLewis @ December 16, 2006 05:34 pm)
So the only way to keep doing this camming thing with a minimum of personal security is to do what your three colleagues in Odessa are already doing online..
In short, do it from home on one's own pc's as an independent sub-contractors of certain western websites ....like the one with its headquarters in Montreal, Quebec.

Are you sure that the 3 girls you are talking about are totaly independant Uncle...?

The studio may be closed...but the owners may remain...

Do whatever you enjoy, Enjoy whatever you do.

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#9 [url]

Dec 17 06 3:33 PM

QUOTE (SlideR @ December 17, 2006 04:05 pm)
QUOTE (UncleLewis @ December 16, 2006 05:34 pm)
So the only way to keep doing this camming thing with a minimum of personal security is to do what your three colleagues in Odessa are already doing online..
In short, do it from home on one's own pc's as an independent sub-contractors of certain western websites ....like the one with its headquarters in Montreal, Quebec.

Are you sure that the 3 girls you are talking about are totaly independant Uncle...?

The studio may be closed...but the owners may remain...

In fact there are 4 girls, and of course it's the same owner who make cash out of it.

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#10 [url]

Dec 17 06 6:06 PM

I was not going to say anything but maybe you all are not looking at the larger picture.There is a war waging worldwide against trafficking in men,children and women and Ukraine has been pointed out as one of the major sources of women to be trafficked for years.Low wages or lack of jobs has been a partial cause of this.
Do these studios pay taxes legally or try to hide everything they do?More than likely they do not.Does the government have each person that the studio's hire on the books to know what they are being paid and who they are and where they are from?Most likely no.
Does this cause suspicion or reason to investigate whom is being hired and if they are even legal residents?You bet it does.
Ukraine wants to join the European Union and thus must clean up corruption and being named as a country that does not protect it's people from being trafficked.
Those who hide what they have been doing will most likely no longer be tolerated even if it is not found to be trafficking related later.
The country (Ukraine) has to do their duty to uphold it's laws fully or they might not be allowed into the European Union or Nato.This is most likely what is happening.
Nobody here has to listen to me about how they can make a job for themselves,but here is some info anyway.
If anyone in any low wage country wants to make a job for themselves,I would definately say to buy things there as cheap or low priced as possible that has a greater value in other country's and export by selling on the internet like other people are doing now.
Be resourceful and if one thing does not work,try something else to sell worldwide.
I am not trying to advertise for any company here but many eastern euro and russians sell on ebay.com and make a very good living since you get paid in euro or dollars and can earn as much in 1 day as you would all month working in your own country.
It is better to work for yourself if you have the motivation and access to a computer.
It is free to signup for an account on ebay and do search in completed auctions to know what items sell for most money.You make people pay shipping cost to their country for item you sell.
If you know people that have expensive items to sell in your country,make a deal to sell the item on internet and get 20 to 30 percent of what the item sells for so you do not have to use any of your money.
Just remember,always search completed auctions first so you do not get stuck trying to sell an item that is not worth much.
Anything sells on ebay for the right price.
Just remember to pay the government in your country their share of tax money if it's required so you are legal.
PS: I used to make my own websites that I sold items on but it takes less time and you make more money if you sell on ebay for most items.Either that find a dealer to sell directly to.

If anyone else has any other ideas on how people can create their own jobs,post it in the Off topic page. I have about 20 years of knowledge stuck in my head about antiques,collectibles,designer and vintage clothing,electronics and alot more.If someone wants to ask a question,just email me.If you post a question on here,I might not respond for a few days.

Money is like manure; it's not worth a thing unless it's spread around encouraging young things to grow. Thornton Wilder


You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

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#11 [url]

Dec 17 06 6:54 PM

Well, Tim, buying low/selling high to overseas consumers can work...but it requires quite an entry cost and doesn't provide a steady income. If you're looking to supplement current income, then it can work quite well...however, when you need a money for day-to-day living expenses such as food, housing, clothing, et cetera, then a steady, guaranteed income is a must. Unfortunately, for some girls (especially in the Ukraine), a job in front of a camera can be the only way to acquire the amount of money needed to simply keep their bellies full and a roof over their heads.

Yes, these studios are an illegal business....but how are they connected to trafficking? I would argue the opposite--that cam studios actually help to prevent human trafficking. Cam studios are, by no means, "fun" places to work--the psychological impact of such a job can be crippling. However, it gives girls a (relatively) safe, steady income that would hopefully prevent them from being sucked up into a trafficking scheme.

Ask yourself this--who do these police raids help? Do you really believe that, by depriving girls of (for some) their only source of income because their job may or may not be "indecent" really helps to curb human trafficking? Sure, they may have evaded taxes...but does that really justify a military-style raid on a group of frightened schoolgirls? The police have been known to plant narcotics on girls so they have an excuse to bring the entire studio into the station. These raids are not done to "better Ukraine" or to help curb human trafficking...if the police really wanted to stop human trafficking, they would stop taking bribes from international traffickers and actually get something done. Instead, these are simply done for political purposes. These raids, in my opinion, are simply emblematic of a corrupt police force whose officers want to build glory for themselves by scoring easy victories over scared, helpless girls who don't have the money or political influence to adequately defend themselves.

The real way to help these girls is to legalize and regulate these studios. With proper work codes, office safety regulations, and guarantees of pay, cam studios would become safer and easier places to work, provide the models workers' benefits, and create quite a bit of taxable income for the government--good for all involved.

Also, ask yourself this--why is stripping legal when camming is illegal? Is stripping somehow "less pornographic" because it's done in person? Your average stripper spends far more time with her clothes off than your average cam model--in fact, I would argue (as have many others in this forum) that cam modeling is more about psychology and "playing to the crowd" than simply taking off clothes.

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#12 [url]

Dec 17 06 7:53 PM

If you read everything I wrote,you might see that I said or tried to say that studio's trying to hide what they are doing gives the government an excuse or reason to go in or raid the studio's. But you can not change what is legal or illegal by just talking on here either.The people in their government and voters there are the only ones that can change it.
What I talked about is not always sustainable but then no job is anyway.People can manufacture items there to sell and change with the times or needs of those they are selling to.With the internet,profits are much better than you understand.
These girls are not ignorent and can do much more than camming,but maybe you just do not see that.
I do know girls from there that are willing to try and have given them enough information to get started if they wish to.What anyone does with what they learn in college or by me or someone else is their business.
I can only try to offer people something different if they want to listen.
Camming is a part time job for any girls and most get tired of it and move on to something new.My option I gave is just something new that anyone can consider or just forget about.
It can very easily turn into a full time job for anyone willing to put time into it.
Never stop learning,listening or trying new things.If you limit yourself or any of these people here,you do not help them or yourself.
With the internet,what is possible has changed.
Read supernova's new topic
http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=186
click on the link and read

"""""""""""""Well, Tim, buying low/selling high to overseas consumers can work...but it requires quite an entry cost and doesn't provide a steady income.""""""
"Bullshit" if someone has a computer or access to a computer,they can sign up on ebay for free account and to accept credit card payments worldwide is free to signup through their paysite paypal.com . When I signed up for selling items years ago it was $10 to start out which was given back to you to use for selling fees which are very small compared to what anyone can sell an item for if they research it first.
If these girls have friends that want to give them money as a christmas present and not for camming,they can use paypal for that also as quasicash.They can also have family give them money this way as present for christmas or new years.


MERRY CHRISTMAS CamGirlS !!!Can not say I never gave you anything.

Money is like manure; it's not worth a thing unless it's spread around encouraging young things to grow. Thornton Wilder


You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

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#13 [url]

Dec 17 06 10:05 PM

Ok.
I was angry that anyone might suggest that camming is the only thing that girls
in Ukr and other countries might be able to do even with the economies there not so good.
I just do not accept that because I grew up with pretty much nothing when I was younger.Objects to me have not much value unless given by someone I care alot about.
I was suggesting maybe if any cam girls have friends,they can always give to them through paypal for christmas.People here in usa give out prepaid cards to use in stores for christmas presents.It is not a handout or something for nothing,it is showing that their friendship is appreciated and maybe they can use the cash for something they really want.
I do not really think vishbar thinks that camming is the only option available to anyone also.
As I said before,my options I have given are just that,another option to try.
I do wish all people here A Merry Christmas and not in a smart ass kinda way.
My small amount of knowledge was the intended gift.I don't buy my friends and nobody will ever buy me.

Money is like manure; it's not worth a thing unless it's spread around encouraging young things to grow. Thornton Wilder


You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

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#14 [url]

Dec 17 06 10:28 PM

First of all Tim, you are right that these cam girls can do a lot better than just being a cam model on a pornsite. But many girls who work in those studios, see it just as easy money to earn. But like always, it all depends on the personal situation those girls are in, some really need those jobs, becaus ethey can't find any other ones. Others do it just as a side job to quickly earn some easy money..

We do see the bigger picture for instance, issues like Human trafficing, look at this topic in the reading room, that I created at the start of this forum: Women Trafficking, Gathering of articles and info sites

You are right about it Tim, Ukrainia is a huge country in that perspective, and to tell a little story, I begia this year with talking with another Ukrainian yahoo model, named Mariexxn. She told me she would leave the Ukraine soon with her little son, to go to work in Japan. Well such a story really makes you wonder somehow I can tell you..

But you have interesting ideas about making use of the internet to sell things, or import things to sell, and I agree totally with you, like is well known by now, that making use of paypal for instance is a lot wiser then clicking that pvt button on such a porn site..

(btw i am thinking of creating a seperate area on this forum, about Ukraine)

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#15 [url]

Dec 18 06 1:40 AM

I didn't mean to imply that camming was the only job that girls could do...but the job market in Ukraine especially is remarkably small. Buying/selling on eBay would be tough to do mainly because you'd have to deal with tariffs, import/export restrictions, packaging services (shipping to and from Ukraine is neither cheap nor reliable, as I understand it), and so many other costs that it would be difficult to turn a profit.

I completely agree about the PayPal thing, by the way. It cuts your rich Western "porn lords" completely out of the loop.

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#16 [url]

Dec 18 06 2:15 AM


Guys.. notice no models are commenting...
except for Delfina
and that this thread has nothing to do with the police closing of studios.
I propose that we make a new thread and move some of these posts there.
Ul

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#17 [url]

Dec 18 06 2:37 PM

Lol guys and you are really expecting that models will comment on the economic situation in Ukraine - things we see and feel every day?
I thought this forum is about cam models work, and not the Ukraine or Women trafficking, which has no connection to models at all.
And I don't understand why do u wanna put on the site any information u ever get?
I think if u will continue that way you will need to find other sources than models very soon.....

I am already given to the power which rule my destiny.
I am holding on to nothing, thats why i have nothing to defend.
I have no thoughts, thats why i will SEE
I am afraid of nothing, thats why i will remember myself.
Silvio Manuel

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#18 [url]

Dec 19 06 4:09 AM

Hmmm,
At least someone is talking.
I do not need info from anyone here about the economic situation in Ukraine.
I have heard about alot what has been going on there for over a year in the ukranian news and from people here in usa that are Ukranian and have relatives still back home in Ukraine that do not have work or a job.Maybe girls that come here are just looking for the next best cam site to open up for them to make more money that way.
I just thought since that there has been so much trouble with the authorities that some people might be looking for a different way to make good money that does not get them in trouble .
Most raids that have happened recently are not trafficking related and maybe none will be found to be related to that. The studios are having problems because certain people are not doing things by the laws that are allready on the books.
The same thing would happen here in usa or any other country if people were suspected of breaking a law.The laws in Ukr and other countries are just being enforced more recently and the police will not be bought anymore to show that they are no longer corruptable.Moving to Japan might be an idea for some but with that comes a price also and not just in money.Maybe I am wasting my time talking about models doing things legally.One model told me she did not believe in such concepts of what is right or wrong.Hmm,I wonder what exactly she was talking about.
I know I was talking about being kind or nice to people as being right and being mean or treating people badly was wrong.Maybe the models know which cam bosses fit which categories,good or bad.
Is there is a list on this site on which countries doing cam is legal?
Then maybe some here can make a choice to move or try something new as a job.
I think most want to finish college in their own country,so why not try something new that is legal.
Cam is part time job for models,since we all get old and wrinkle and saggy at some point..
I had a friend that did professional modeling for sportswear and other clothing here in usa plus had her own website and did non-nude camchats part time.She was happy while it lasted but she started getting older and her looks changed.She did not handle it very well and got depressed and became anorexic(stopped eating),while trying to look like she used to.
Luckily she had a good university education and moved away from modeling which was the reason for her eating disorder.She knew she would not be modeling forever and tried to get herself ready for that reality.It did not work out as she planned but at least she is better now.
Doing cam is part time as I said,if it is legal in your country.
Do what you want in life.Maybe life in Japan as a cheap labor slave and
work all year just to pay an airline ticket is a better deal than staying in your own country and just being happy that you have family and friends that love you.
Money,cool clothes and electronics really isn't worth as much as u think.
I would rather have my best friend back.

Money is like manure; it's not worth a thing unless it's spread around encouraging young things to grow. Thornton Wilder


You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

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#19 [url]

Dec 29 06 3:10 PM




Another Police Raid on an Web-Cam Studio. This time in Krivoy Rog. So take note girls, the crackdown continues nation-wide.
UL


Today December 29, 2006, 17:04 Archive Porno-Industry Transforming Malefactors into Boxers

MIGnews.com.ua
Three Ukrainians are detained in Krivoy Rog for production and distribution of porno-production. Officials from the department on struggle against crimes, concerned with trade of people in the city department of the Interior Ministry detained 25-year-old local private entrepreneur and two 20-year-old females in Krivoy Rog. They had been occupied with production and distribution through the Net of obscene production, informed officials in the PR centre at the Administration of the Interior Ministry in the Dnepropetrovsk oblast.

Private entrepreneur showed resistance to militia officials during approved search and detention of plotter by the Saksaganskiy district court in Krivoy Rog. Plotter inflicted damage on one militiaman.

Victim is hospitalized. Militia seized in the private porno-studio: 5 personal computers which had been worked on-line in the Net, two video cameras, equipment for access into the Net, agreements with different foreign obscene sites, 36 discs with obscene records during search. Releases are sent to the prosecutor office of Saksaganskiy district in order to initiate criminal case.

MIGnews.com.ua



thanks to Tim for calling this story to my attention.


"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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