#21 [url]

Jun 26 10 12:29 PM

QUOTE
But there are also some cam models that don't want to quit because they sustain their all family from what they earn, so doing what she loves to do in another field might mean no helping others. Again, a personal choice of those "greedy and selfish cam models". Yes, from one point of view it's justified to "take advantages of poor members" by making a nice striptease, enjoying their eyes and spending hours in front of computer for helping their relatives. That's called self sacrifice, an unknown word for many career women.


This final paragraph says alot camgirl.

Some do not want to quit because they are "trapped" because the reality of being "poorer" than another person is something thought of as being a sub standard human as a way of thinking and lifestyle. But then they justify their "self sacrifice" to work in camming, in what appears to be the "only" way to support themselves or family. To be so desperate that they resort to taking advantage of some members.They lower their own moral standards in a way. Which you then say is justified next. What a sweet sincere spin you're putting on something that you are hinting some do not enjoy doing. Some then say there is nothing immoral or inherently bad about it all, after they have become desensitized.

Self sacrifice.... What about self sacrifice? You act like the people in Romania are the only ones that have chosen to sacrifice doing things that they may or may not wish to do. Seems the logical unbiased view is that you actually have no other options or choices. Then I wonder how others survived who did not choose this line of work.

People around this planet self sacrifice all the time. Even in western developed countries. Yet they do not cam.

As an example, and this is quite personal, family members of mine self sacrificed their lives to protect others.In worse times than what is occurring these days. They never had cellphones, or television, or a computer, or food to eat, or more than a high school diploma or clothes to wear. They handed down their old clothes to a younger child. And wow, they survived.

Damn, camgirl, for me to watch a model say they are desperate simply because they don't wear good clothes or can afford a vacation is something that kind of negates real self sacrifice definitions. Really whom is fooling whom here, sometimes?

Yet they did not self sacrifice in the way some people self sacrifice as those who profess their distress while working in the industry you and others are employed in.

I tend to think as bad as it is or is portrayed, I still see those same people living a decent life. So it is not a self sacrifice in the true sense of things.

It is as many say, a job, plain and simple, a very good paying job for those that manage and hone their professional expertise as cam models.

Finally, self sacrifice would hint towards a life or an action that a person needs to give up or do something for others by not being selfish and doing something that they "normally" would not do.

Examples:

1) To sacrifice their freedom by a person robbing a bank to buy food to keep their children from starving and then getting caught and incarcerated..

2)Sacrifice their vacation, their education, their futures, to take care of a sick family member.

3) One can sacrifice their lives for others.


Those are a few examples of self sacrifice.

Now when I see, and yes, I have seen for a fact, that there are quite a few people from this industry that claim self sacrifice or the "whoa is me facade, that when you look at it all, they are not that bad off when compared to others.

Then that is not a sacrifice in the true sense of it all. It is just a job where they rub their tits and pussies for sex crazed dysfunctional people. Simply because it is so easy, so simple to have those members just toss money and other gifts at another person because they can not satisfy their own shortcomings.

The debate is now, whether some are "trapped" or have no real choice or opportunities other than this work because of the lucrative and easy methods to earn a good living. Yet, it underscores how much particular countries, governments and its own people are just simply not even making a positive change, but just looking for the easy way out of a bad situation that only they created themselves.

Now do not get me wrong, there are those that are in dire need and use your work to attain a better situation. But as usual many just give up(which is not the same as self sacrifice) their ethical or moral standards to do things they thought originally
was against their better judgement or ideals. Now that can be construed as a self sacrifice of their own ideals and moral standards.

Thanks camgirl

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#22 [url]

Jul 2 10 1:31 AM

Hmm..
Was someone trying to bait me into responding to this topic that was created by someone that has no idea what I was talking about in another topic reguarding a response I made and actually agreed with camgirl about women selling themselves on the streets when they have other options.I thought why should anyone have to subject themselves to be taken advantage of and have more chances to become physically and mentally sick but some people do not see any other choice I would guess.
As far as camming goes,it is each woman's choice to go on cam and do what she wants on there and I have no judgement of ethics about what they do .Each person on this planet has choices ,but some as talked about in other topics have less options to do other things for jobs or maybe they limit what they think they can do.
Take for example,a woman or guy that is not physically attractive to many people has less chance of getting paid just to smile and chat with people than someone that seems highly attractive by the majority of our population.

I believe in giving and helping people to have the knowledge and power to change their own lives and I offer this for free.
There are many cam girls that give back to people around them when they can also.

I had seen Femen as helping to empower women ,but taking off more of their clothes to make a statement only helps to bring in more sex addicts into their country looking for a free peep show and those sex customers spreading their diseases around to the women also.
If people didn't grow up thinking seeing breasts and other body parts was a sin,they wouldn't see it as so exciting to see the clothes come off now would they ?
Do what you gotta do to make money and survive and hopefully help other people when you can....

Money is like manure; it's not worth a thing unless it's spread around encouraging young things to grow. Thornton Wilder


You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

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#23 [url]

Jul 2 10 2:07 AM

QUOTE
I thought why should anyone have to subject themselves to be taken advantage of and have more chances to become physically and mentally sick but some people do not see any other choice I would guess.


There is the question perhaps..... why?

QUOTE
but some as talked about in other topics have less options to do other things for jobs or maybe they limit what they think they can do.



Keywords" maybe they limit what they think they can do" or maybe they do not find it worthwhile to do something else...... lower pay? social status? maybe greed.

QUOTE
I believe in giving and helping people to have the knowledge and power to change their own lives and I offer this for free.


Exactly....

QUOTE
If people didn't grow up thinking seeing breasts and other body parts was a sin,they wouldn't see it as so exciting to see the clothes come off now would they ?


Why a sin though? There is nothing sinful of seeing a naked body or breasts etc...

Question: Did you mean that when they expose themselves in a manner of using their body as a means to earn money?

We are all humans and as humans we do get excited seeing a nude or naked body whether for free or when paid to see them.

Point is, how one goes about using their bodies in a manner that does not hurt, manipulate or degrade themselves or others. Those boundaries are being torn down every which way you look.

QUOTE
Do what you gotta do to make money and survive and hopefully help other people when you can....




When you write"Do what you gotta do to make money and survive"....Where do you draw the line?

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#24 [url]

Jul 2 10 3:02 AM

Trainer, you inquired about my thoughts to the Hedges article, so tell me what would your thoughts be to the following thoughts? Uncle you may want to move it, just thought Id put it here to start.
You all chime if you have some thoughts, but for now I'll just blame it on my blue collar roots.


Whenever something is wrong
There is something wrong in us
We mirror what surrounds us and
What mirrors us, surrounds us
We must take responsibility for what is in our lives.

You get back from something, whatever youve put into it
The value of something is a direct result of the energy and intent that was put into it.

Looking back to examine what was,
Prevents us from being totally in the here and now
Old thoughts, old behavior, old dreams,
Prevents us from having new ones.

Even if something we do seems inconsequential
It is very important that it gets done
As everything in the universe is connected
Each step leads to the next step and so forth and so on
Someone must do the initial work to get a job done
Neither, the first step or the last are of greater signifigance
They were both needed to accomplish the task
PAST, PRESENT, FUTURE THEY ARE ALL CONNECTED

History repeats itself until we learn the lessons
That we need to change our paths.

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#25 [url]

Jul 2 10 4:23 AM


I agree with most of it.

Although sometimes people get the wrong end of stick you could say.

Learning from the past, can help us make better choices, hopefully,for the present and for the future.

But the present sometimes seems like an eternity when nothing is connected or connecting.


You can also put alot into something and get nothing substantial back in return.

To do something inconsequential could become unimportant and a waste of time in the end or to others.


QUOTE
History repeats itself until we learn the lessons
That we need to change our paths.



How profound isn't it.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#26 [url]

Jul 2 10 11:11 PM

QUOTE
When you write"Do what you gotta do to make money and survive"....Where do you draw the line?


It is not my line or your line to draw as a boundry .The models and anyone else in any job that has control over what they do and make their own lines they will not cross.
The models set the rules as to what is acceptable in their rooms.If they work for a studio that has set rules for what they must do,the model still has a choice if she wants to go by their rules or work some other place.

I have lines or boundries that I will not cross also and it is my choice and nobody elses.

You can talk all day but in the end,it is still a models choice of what she does and how she is with people online. If a person does not like how certain models do things,they do not have to go talk to them anymore and either go to another room or stay off cam sites which are just a few choices that person could make.

Choose what you think is right for yourself.

Money is like manure; it's not worth a thing unless it's spread around encouraging young things to grow. Thornton Wilder


You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

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#27 [url]

Jul 3 10 2:26 PM

So basically you are saying, everyone can do whatever they wish that they deem best for them, irregardless of the consequences.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

Quote    Reply   

#29 [url]

Jul 3 10 3:18 PM

No checks or balances..... just free will, eh.

Freedom of will..... freedom of choice......

I have some United States Gulf of Mexico beachfront property I would love to sell.

Any buyers?

You don't even need oil to cook your seafood or fish in it comes pre-prepared ready to cook and eat.

Oh yeah, sorry to go off the topic,but, they forecast the oil spill to travel up the east coast of the United States and then head out towards the Atlantic ocean. There is an 61-80% probability that the oil will affect the east coast of Florida. Congratulations again, we just keep doing whatever we wish, from top to bottom.

Everything is connected and everything has its consequences.

Funny though, eventually the remnants will be carried in the ocean currents and maybe hit western europe. Maybe it will come ashore in the UK, our gift back to BP, I suppose.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

Quote    Reply   

#31 [url]

Jul 3 10 3:49 PM

Fair enough, coolbreeze. That's what I thought you meant, thanks.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

Quote    Reply   

#32 [url]

Jul 3 10 7:54 PM

People are going to do what they want and as I said you can talk all day,it might not help to change their mind or opinion on anything.
Have you ever got many teen kids to listen to you or do everything you want them to?

People have to live with their choices and maybe over time they make better choices in life for themselves and other people around them.

You can't make anyone do something they do not want to do unless by force or manipulation and I wouldn't go that route.

Let people make their own mistakes or choices and see how that works out for them.

You can only give your opinion's,but not everyone is going to listen.

BP got in way over their heads in the Dash for easy cash and did not pay attention to the basic needs of their own safety equipment on their oil rig and now they and everyone else is paying for their mistake.
They made choices and they were the wrong ones.
It would seem very ignorent that a company would have a multimillion dollar platform out there and they couldn't even keep up the basic maintenence to protect their own workers and that expensive rig from blowing up and causing this ecological nightmare.
For a partial read on what investigators found to be faulty on the failsafe for the rig read all of this article.. Both pages.. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...0051202190.html

Money is like manure; it's not worth a thing unless it's spread around encouraging young things to grow. Thornton Wilder


You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

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#33 [url]

Jul 3 10 8:19 PM

Of course Tim, we all can talk all day, we are just having a debate on the topic.

No one can force anyone to do anything they don't wish to do.

Opposite extreme: Have you ever gotten a group of teens to listen to you or try a different approach?

So back to what tben wrote earlier, learn from your mistakes(past) to learn for themselves what to do.(present and future).
Experience is the best teacher of all, whether one fails or succeeds.

The oil spill reference was just another example other than what occurs in camming or why people choose or do not choose the work and how some corporations, governments and people do whatever they please.

Was BP fooling or cheating the system? Hmmm... Now why would I say that when we are on a cam girl chat forum. Ahem.

Ignorance, total disregard, a short path to a goal. Hmmm..... Maybe all three.... sense the similarities yet?

P.S- I forgot greed.

P.P.S- I have a thought of logic. Based on listening and reading of the thoughts from other camgirls,and bosses, what is the ultimate goal for them all?

Complete an education that it takes 8 years or more for some to attain.

To make enough money to actually leave the work itself...hmmm... that would suggest that the work is not something one wants to continue in or use as a career. But then the logic behind their feelings are that there is nothing wrong or inherently bad with it, then I beg to ask again, then why leave it?

I also suggest that all the members that are, the studio bosses that visit here who say they have assisted many a model with whatever it is they needed. I believe that it is "only" in their own best interests(the bosses). Now why not try some alternative, like creating a program for young women and men to teach important needed skills and educate others to work towards other goals.But then I think that would not be in their best interests would it. That they will need to have a steady potential of future models to fill the ranks of the ones leaving.
You do make much money don't you. Why not spread the wealth around? I will gladly travel to any country and assist you in that endeavor.


Just chatting here aren't we all.....

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#34 [url]

Jul 3 10 9:32 PM

QUOTE (TRAINER @ July 03, 2010 08:19 pm)
Based on listening and reading of the thoughts from other camgirls,and bosses, what is the ultimate goal for them all?

..............To make enough money to actually leave the work itself...hmmm... that would suggest that the work is not something one wants to continue in or use as a career. But then the logic behind their feelings are that there is nothing wrong or inherently bad with it, then I beg to ask again, then why leave it?

As for bosses,website owners, models etc the ultimate goal is to make money.

As for the second part of the question- why leave it? Camming is similiar to any acting career in the porn industry, theres a short life span to it. Most models reach their 'life expectancy' around age 35. While there are models of all shapes, sizes and ages, the traditional model will be slender, reasonably fit and ages 18-27.

Its not a long term career. Many models do it in their 20s and then retire to start a family or to begin a new career that will last them the rest of their lives.

So no, theres nothing wrong with it, its just not something you can do from the age of 18 till you retire at 65 or 70 is all.


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#35 [url]

Jul 4 10 12:44 AM

I understand that Miss Jane. My point was for those models who don't necessarily enjoy it but have no other options. Are there women who do this work that are not happy as camgirl has mentioned? I am certain there are.

If some women choose not to do this work then why isn't there another option for them. An alternative that might increase the apparent low wages and provide something more acceptable that almost all the other available career opportunities fail to achieve. You would think that someone would give a slight concern about all of those other women perchance. Unless this work is the avenue where some use it as a means to obtain something more than just what meets the eye.

If it is an act or a portrayal then why do all these men think it isn't? Or then why are things played or acted as such then?

Why is this the only path for those interested in a better life or career"after" they decide to work in it? It does appear it is the "only" method available.

For quite a few it is something they enjoy but we all forget about the ones who do not. Survival of the fittest or use whatever is available to get what one desires.

Thanks for your response.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

Quote    Reply   

#36 [url]

Jul 9 10 11:03 AM

QUOTE
Why is this the only path for those interested in a better life or career"after" they decide to work in it? It does appear it is the "only" method available.


of course there is, but the options should be searched and founded - there was a time where internet didn't exist and ppl still survived. Maybe is the magic of money or the longer free time Some I've talked to said just their time is precious and if they could earn the same amount as cam girls in 3 days they don't wnat to hire on normal job where they would have to work 30 days for the same money - After all, time is the only thing nobody can give us. Another thought I've heard is the stressing jobs some have been through and decided is more comfortable to work on cam I have a friend that finished also a master, learned a 3rd language very well to hire in a bank, with a decent salary then quit and came back to work on cam. So that was an option.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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