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Jul 19 10 5:40 AM

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(First off, don't start by telling me I have an addiction to sex. That's not what I'm here to talk about okay?) That said, I burned through $1000 per month for 2 consecutive months in pvt sessions. That doesn't include a couple hundred a month that girls asked for because they or a family member was sick or dying. Why do camgirls do this?

It just doesn't seem like a smart thing to do in the long run for these girls to make up stories. Maybe they are all true? but after you recognize a pattern then you have to wonder whether they all just lie to get you to send them money via xoom?

I'd like some insight as soon as possible on how to deal with camgirls that know that I am interested in them as a loyal long-term customer but yet when there is a hint of friendship they always tell me their mother, sister, brother is in the hospital dying and that they need $100 to buy them medicine. One girl told me that her mother had a stroke and the doctor needed $600 for the medicine. She lives in the Philippines and I was truly heartbroken for her but I also knew that I could never see her again as a customer because she kind of crossed the line. I don't have $600 that I could get for her at 11 o'clock at night on a Saturday, and now the shame of knowing that she asked me and I hinted that I could get the money is just too great and overwhelming for me to face her again. (Advice on this situation would be very appreciated).

Would it be wise to make up some general ground rules as soon as I meet a model? like don't ever lie, and don't ever tell me your personal problems or I will not be able to come back as a customer?

Thanks,
-BDean
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#1 [url]

Jul 19 10 6:29 AM



Hmmm, well, I know Ive never met you before or came across you in my chat and if youre chatting with girls from the Philippenes then Im probably not youre type anyway(lol)

So I can only answer this as an independant American model. I have no clue if the girls you frequent are in studios or all overseas or what... If youve ready any threads here youd see that girls in studios and girls in certain areas make less money then independant models do on the same sites. For every dollar you spend they make a small percentage of it. So thats why they would ask for you to send $ directly. Its a huge boost in income for them and no studio/website cut.

I would suggest making up some ground rules but none of the ones you listed. Simply state that you are looking for a certain girl (or girls) to have a business type relationship. That you are looking for someone who can give you an hour show X amounts of times a week.

Sometimes girls ask for money because they dont know when its going to end.You get a big spender in chat on somewhat of a pattern and each time you see him could be the last. So its more like a take it or ask for it while you can type thing.

By explaining that youre looking for long term will mean something. Just as a lot of models explain right up front they are not looking for men to meet up with or possibly date, theres nothing wrong with a customer being clear about what they want or dont want from the model.

I wouldnt say "Im not interested in your personal life," cause what does that imply? Im only here for your goodies? Perhaps its true but its a little rude and probably untrue since according to you during your prvt show or chats with the models youve learned all sorts of things about them.

A model youve been freqenting says to you Im sad, I need extra money for my sick etc etc, then the correct answer would be Oh im so sorry. I hope our show tonight helps you with that but I only spend money on here.

It really depends on who you are talking to. Where they work from, I know its against the rules on most all webcam sites but I do prvt offline shows for some of my 'frequent clients'. I charge them less then the site was charging, give them more time and end up pocketing more cash...

If you really want to make sure the girl gets the most money from what you are spending then thats the only way to do it.

Asking for 600$ is a lot in my opinion. Does she really need it? I dunno. SHould you send it? Again, not the kind of advice I can give you... What to say to her? hmmm, see above. Sorry I couldnt help you, hope the show we did helped you a little. I can only buy credits HERE and would love to keep seeing you HERE.

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#2 [url]

Jul 19 10 6:46 AM

QUOTE
A model youve been freqenting says to you Im sad, I need extra money for my sick etc etc, then the correct answer would be Oh im so sorry. I hope our show tonight helps you with that but I only spend money on here.


That is very good advice.

I have sent money and gifts to models in past and was asked to send more. It never ends. I had one girl ask me to buy her a pink Audi TT so she could get to work faster. Get to work FASTER??? WTF?? I told her I would buy her a bicycle and she could leave home a little later.

Like any business, it is about getting the sale. Most models see you have money and ask for more. A certain site is famous for models doing raffles for Skype shows. Then on Skype, they ask for more money.

Last night, I got an email from a model friend and she said she has now quit the studio work and is now going to work from home. Good for her. She is doing things on her own to make more profit.

BDean, the best advice is what MissJane told you... Set boundaries. Spread out your privates. Take a week with no privates and see how she acts. If she becomes angry, then you know something was not right.

Good luck.

"Only one thing is impossible for God: To find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." ~ Mark Twain

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#3 [url]

Jul 19 10 3:04 PM

If you met only cam girls that asked you for money, you have had bad luck. Making a general assumption that "cam girls will ask for money" is a false one. Why some ask for money? Because they have no principles and have seen that it works. They'd prefer to receive donations and get some days off rather than working for that money. It's simple. For some is a matter of pride about how much money they can obtain without working for it, and then spend it on expensive clothes or together with boyfriend. There are girls that live only from donations and work on cam only a few hours per month.

Do you want to make donations? There are orphaned children, there are animala abandoned. You sure can find a cause that's worthy of your help. If you want to help a cam girl directly, tell her to come over here so she'll be more informed. This forum does a good job of informing cam girls.


PS. Don't worry, $ 1000 per month is not the worst case I've heard of. There are guys who spent $ 1000 per day over a few months, at a time.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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#4 [url]

Jul 19 10 4:37 PM

Hmmm.... BDean.

I am going to be direct and to the point with you and ItsJust who recently joined this forum as well now.


You have spent a lot of money as you mentioned for shows or private time. You have to realize the dynamics of the work. You are a big spender. With becoming that sort of client, some models stop looking at you as a person, and see you as a $$$ sign.
Although some have a conscience there are those that never look at a "customer" as real person anyway and just as if you are their next $ sign.

After a length of time, they develop some type of connection with a client, and think, I could test him and see if he would send them some money. If you have done it in the past, then the odds are you will be asked over and over again possibly, and word spreads around to others. The word will spread and you might become a mark in their eyes.

Now I am not saying all models do that, but it does happen. As camgirl mentioned, perhaps you are meeting the wrong women. Some do not care about you in the least except for their primary purpose of being online in this job. And that is to earn a buck and to make money. If they can make money by asking customers for gifts, money etc then all the better and easier without producing a show for you. You are not the first nor will be the last person to be in this situation.

I have sent one model once a $100 because they said they needed it to pay for an appliance them and their mom purchased and could not pay that months bill. But then later on they asked me again and I had to decline for personal reasons. I also was asked by another cam girl that she needed assistance to pay for her rent but I also could not help them.

As much as your heart is touched by their plight or situation, only you can make the decision to help them or not. Yes, there are instances, where you trust each other and a cam girl did pay someone back too.

As Miss Jane mentioned previously, some models will ask if you wish to do shows away from their studio work environment for a little less of the cost and yes they will get more earnings because the middle men has been eliminated from the profit line.

I have been asked by someone who considered me a very good friend to help them in the above way, but I was not looking for that and they also wanted me to pay for their time even just to chat. My personal sentiment was are you kidding me? And decided to end that right there and then.

I also suggest you to read through this forum here and make your own decisions that fits your ideology.

http://www.topix.com/forum/world/romania/T7AF4L12F63RT9PHR

Hope that helps you sort through things or maybe made you more confused.

Just remember a fool and his money are soon parted.

Good luck.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#5 [url]

Jul 19 10 8:51 PM

As MissJane mentioned, I'm probably not your type since I'm an American independent model...but from a model's perspective, my life is kind of an earthquake. I am disabled and I started camming at this point in my life mainly because I am teetering on the brink of homelessness financially. (I enjoy the work and it's fun and there are plenty of other reasons I do it, but my financial situation definitely pushed me into the decision.) I also am not at the point yet with camming where I'm making enough to pay the bills ~ so I can understand that a lot of models may be in dire straights financially (and many of them worse than mine).

That said ~ I can also see where some women might just be greedy and trying to milk it for all it's worth, too. And as much as I do need the money (especially since all the customers I have right now seem to think tips are a mythical unicorn) I would not be forward in asking for it like that because I think it's poor customer service, plain and simple. I get the feeling that customers want to know what life is like for us but not really what life is like for us. So...I try to be realistic but not too realistic, if you get my drift, because keeping a customer happy and returning regularly is more important than jeopardizing that relationship by bringing up my problems.

I think the best way to deal with this is just to be upfront and honest about what money you are willing to pay other than the girl's per-minute rate (such as tips or gifts) and make it clear you aren't willing to pay anything other than that. If a model puts you into a situation that makes you too uncomfortable, you can always end the arrangement with her.

la muerte viene siempre / si se pobre o rebelde / no s cmo empezar / otro guerrillero! / ms pobreza, ms violencia /
estos son las consecuencias / no s donde va para / otra guerrillera! / las mujeres en la lucha no pueden parar

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#6 [url]

Jul 19 10 9:20 PM

Ask yourself this question...
"If I help her financially, will it make my financial situation bad?"

If you answer yes, then it is best you not cause financial harm to yourself, just to help anyone else.

"Only one thing is impossible for God: To find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." ~ Mark Twain

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The Partisan

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Posts: 63

#7 [url]

Jul 20 10 7:21 AM

QUOTE (Cam Girls Unlimited @ July 19, 2010 09:20 pm)
Ask yourself this question...
"If I help her financially, will it make my financial situation bad?"

If you answer yes, then it is best you not cause financial harm to yourself, just to help anyone else.

I don't think your own situation should be taken into consideration. It doesn't really matter if you are a millionaire or not.
You talk about customers and friendship. These two terms shouldn't exist in the same sentence, in my opinion.
But i have read here about friendships between members and models - it means it's possible, but in time, not in a month or two. Friendship, even a virtual one, is based on trust and truth...only in time you will see if that is the case. ( many things could be mentioned here about friendship, but nothing that you don't already know)
So, if after few weeks you consider that girl your friend and you begin to talk about intimate things and she asks you for money - then it's just a scam.
In friendship this shouldn't happen. Of course, when you feel connected with a person on another level you might tell that person how hard it is for you and how your life really is, but only that, not asking money.
If you still want to give them money think as if you are donating those money but not giving to a friend..you might end up hurt.
I heard of a girl that received 50.000$ from a member to stop doing this job. They talked for about 1 year or so. She took the money and she never returned to this again. She opened a boutique and she manages to live a decent life.
It's funny how 3 months ago i didn't even know about this industry, and now wherever I turn I hear "video-chat". They still talk on the phone, never met. I don't know if this was an act of kindness or friendship, but my point is friendship should never be conditioned on money.


Take care,
Partisan

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#8 [url]

Jul 20 10 11:36 AM

Partisan, you are pretty much 100% correct. I agree with a large majority of your comments. However, the term never may just a little too high. Every once in a while there is an exception, just leave a little room in your thinking for that. Some (very few) do exist.

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#9 [url]

Jul 20 10 12:47 PM

Again Partisan is giving us a correct report about what she has seen in Romania.
And her skepticism is shared by both models and members....
This is what Andradavalent said in our infamous "Friendship" thread that has been running now for four years...You can find it as a pinned topic in this section.

QUOTE (andradavalent @ January 06, 2010 05:33 pm)
I don t know what ur "friendship" with that cam model includes Paladine-if is sincerity or just words but I really don't understand why u have to pay for it. Friendship is something offered from the heart not for money;)


And we can hear much of the same from members who have been scammed emotionally and financially by Romanian cam girls:
Look here at the thread from another forum that Trainer just cited:
http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=1027

However, some people do beat the odds and find friends, lovers and "soul-mates."
People do hi-jack this global network that was set up for commercial ends and use it for their own purposes.. We have an entire thread in the Models section where our own members testify about that...
But the odds are long.. And it's safe to assume that in this rigged game - "The House always wins..."

Good Luck

UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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The Partisan

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Posts: 63

#10 [url]

Jul 20 10 12:49 PM

QUOTE (itsjustmejus @ July 20, 2010 11:36 am)
Partisan, you are pretty much 100% correct. I agree with a large majority of your comments. However, the term never may just a little too high. Every once in a while there is an exception, just leave a little room in your thinking for that. Some (very few) do exist.

Itsjustmejus, the only time ( in this post ) i used the "never" word was when i talked about friendship and money. I helped my friends in need and i have been helped many times, but when i didn't have any money or they didn't have the means to help me we remained friends, because this is friendhip after all. When you put conditions ( eg. you help me i'll be your friend) it turns into something else.

I am very aware of all the exceptions that confirm the general rules

Ofcourse, when you believe something ( it's worse when you know almost nothing about that subject and you are under the impression you got actually very well) you tend to use big words just to be sure that everyone understands what you stand for..but i am not that obtuse..i think:D

Take care,
partisan

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#11 [url]

Jul 20 10 1:05 PM

I don't think that most of the guys that send money to a model they just met do it from friendship. They feel good to help probably (like you'd feed a dog and expect him to be grateful ). Some want free shows after for an unlimited period, so the model really earn those money more then she would do shows payed/min. Others might deal with a situation when the member get obsessed by her or wants her to talk with him all the time, as reward, distracting her from work. Some want to meet in real the girl and why not have sex. And if the girl said that she didnt know for that he sent the money, he might reply " ah.. not for that, but i thought we are friends and you like me. Now that I sent you money we sure are close friends" (in his definition)


Sure, can be exceptions. But in case you want to send money even for receiving something after, is like playing to roulette rule : never spend more then you can afford to lose.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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#12 [url]

Jul 20 10 3:12 PM

I have to say that it is amazing how the same discussions about the same thing(friendship) will rise to the top between new members here and under different situations.
And that is, the meaning of the word friendship and how people interpret it and their own beliefs about it.

Patrtisan, I agree wholeheartedly with how you explain the definition of friendship is supposed to be.

A friend is there in good or bad times. They are there to support each other. They are there to listen to each other. They are there to speak freely with each other.Talk about things that might be offensive or rude, using trust and respect with each other and to listen with no bias, anger and with an open mind.

You never ever put a price on friendship. Friendship, as I said so many times throughout this forum is earned,through trust. It is a trust between two individuals who respect each other to give advice and be friends to help each other out. To support each, through the bad times and to enjoy the good times. To support each other with a care and concern even if the other person disagrees with the other.Through situations or circumstances where one or the other may be doing something that could potentially be harmful, dangerous, or could be non beneficial, in the best interests for their friend. It is a testament to the very essence of what friendship means, to have the strength, courage and yes, rudeness, to tell another person how you feel and think. With whom you care so much about that it may appear to be rude,offensive, and even uncaring and disrespectful to the other wishes. It is not that we who are friends, want to hurt the other, it is that a friend cares and may see something wrong with what another friend is doing that could lead to a detrimental result for themselves or others. Friendship hurts as well as it is heals.

Friends argue with each other too.

With that said, the world of camming when it comes to friendship, distorts or uses and abuses the pure standard definition of what friendship is all about. It places a monetary value on it, in a world where everything revolves around money. How can that foster something so important and so precious in an atmosphere where everyone needs to make money?

Models use the word "friendship" to illicit tips or privates which is a method to earn money from their so called friends on these chat sites. Members use their money to buy a models friendship. Below are specific examples of the methods of using "friendship" on many cam sites.

I will say it is not specific to one website and occurs on all these websites.

1) Tip me to join and become my "friend" so I can PM you.(MFC)

2)If you are my "friend" you will take me for a smoke, to get away from the incessant begging, to give me some sane calm time away from free chat.

3)If you are my real "friend" prove it by taking me private.

Just a few examples I have mentioned above.

Now to the reality of what I and possibly many others define the act of friendship.

I met a cam model. We chatted away from their work. We never asked for an exchange of shows nor asked for money from each other. We listened to each others fears, goals, ideologies, family, pets, friends and pasts and present.
We grew to trust and respect each other even though at times we disagreed on some things.
We supported each other on bad days, gave helpful, constructive advice that was in the best interest of the other.
We took the time and patience to LISTEN to each other.
Now after a year, I had the opportunity to help them in their time of need.
I proposed to help them for all the kindness and FRIENDSHIP they FREELY gave to me and they accepted with resistance.

As Andra has mentioned elsewhere, to help someone as a"friend" is something that comes from within. From the heart. Irregardless if it is psychologically, physically or financially,spiritually or literally. The act of being a friend is never an"act", and is done because of concern and care for the another.

I hope we never remove ourselves from that type of friendship otherwise we will forget what it is to be human.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#13 [url]

Jul 20 10 5:18 PM

QUOTE
I'd like some insight as soon as possible on how to deal with camgirls that know that I am interested in them as a loyal long-term customer but yet when there is a hint of friendship they always tell me their mother, sister, brother is in the hospital dying and that they need $100 to buy them medicine


Here's the thing. "Loyal long-term customer" and "Friendship" (at least in this job) don't don't really mix well. If you're looking for friends, you're looking in all the wrong places. It's a porn site after all, and you're customer. Now, a sort of friendly interaction does go on, and over time it can build into what I would consider something like a "work friendship" (friends from the office), but at the end of the day, it's still a porn site and you're still a customer. And being a customer there marks you with a sort of social stigma, in the eyes of the performers as well.

Given these facts, lay out boundaries the first time a request for "help" comes up (or sooner), making it clear that you're there for the show, or the chat or whatever, but that's where your arrangement stops. They're not dating sites, or WorldVision charity centers.

And to actually being a friend? Giving selflessly (without a thought for something in return) is without reproach, no matter where you are.

My advice to you... lay down some rules with the girls you visit, or better yet, turn the computer off and get out more.

Breeze

~ ~ AFFINITY ~ ~

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#14 [url]

Jul 20 10 6:32 PM

Coolbreeze, you have hit upon something quite revealing.

I agree with you and what you are saying.

This part is the what I have been talking about for awhile here as well. If a person working as a cam model becomes angry because they are viewed as "cam whore", "slut", "prostitute" etc etc by a visitor to a site they work on. Then here is the opposite as you have revealed in your last post.

QUOTE
And being a customer there marks you with a sort of social stigma, in the eyes of the performers as well.


I am thinking that this "social stigma" is not a positive view from the other side of the monitor.

So are both sides being judgemental towards each other now?

Thanks for pointing that out to us here.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#15 [url]

Jul 20 10 6:59 PM

Trainer -

QUOTE
I am thinking that this "social stigma" is not a positive view from the other side of the monitor.


No, it is not a positive view. o_O To say it bluntly, the general conception is this:

1. You're a wanker.
2. You're either too socially inept or too perverted to find similar companionship for free and right where you are.
3. You're weak.
4. You have little control over your sexual urges.
5. You have little control over your finances.
6. You're just not the type of guy that I want to be around in my "real" life.
7. You're just not the type of guy that I want my friends to be around in my "real" life.
8. You're just not the type of guy that I want my family to EVER see me with.
9. You're collateral damage on my way the fuck out of this. (sometimes)

I can go on, but I think you get the picture. Any performer here is welcome to correct me if you think I'm off base generally speaking.

QUOTE
So are both sides being judgemental towards each other now?


I'm guilty, though I have some respect for performers. And I am not a member.

Breeze

~ ~ AFFINITY ~ ~

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#16 [url]

Jul 20 10 7:06 PM

Coolbreeze.....

You hit the center of the bullseye, sir.


The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#17 [url]

Jul 20 10 7:14 PM

Very funny.. and completely on target.. Cool Breeze...

But in a way this is not new...If you look at some of the early posts here - especially the sharp exchanges between Supernova and Vodka - most of our male members were determined never to be be mistaken for a customer - even if some of our model members were pissed as hell - Delfina for instance - that none of the men here ever paid their dues..

My personal policy on taking models private was spelled out here:
http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=794

It underscores the point made four years ago by one of our Romanian members, Wally, which is:
"The only way to have a non-commercial relationship with a cam-model is never to start one.." Still true...

The minute you take a model private and ask for something sexual, you're done.
Congratulations! You are now officially a "Perv...."
It's a fatal misstep - a permanent category shift - that's almost impossible to recover from...

UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#18 [url]

Jul 20 10 7:27 PM

I almost have to add that the mis-step (if you ever really want to know one of these girls) is to meet her on a site in the first place. Just being there at all marks you.

Plain, simple, truth.

Breeze

~ ~ AFFINITY ~ ~

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#19 [url]

Jul 20 10 7:36 PM

QUOTE
It underscores the point made four years ago by one of our Romanian members, Wally, which is: "The only way to have a non-commercial relationship with a cam-model is never to start one.." Still true...

The minute you take a model private and ask for something sexual, you're done.
It's a mis-step - a category shift - that's almost impossible to recover from...


Perhaps we have reached common ground at this time. Or a common understanding.

Now where do we go from here?

Mutual understanding and a clearer perspective from both sides of the monitor. Is it the propaganda taught as part of the indoctrination process of new models into the biz by their bosses, studios, admins and their colleagues?

Is it a double edged sword and a double standard with sprinkles of hypocrisy we are discussing here?

Or after some length of time as a performer within this world they lose focus and stigmatize all that they meet there into one common mass.

That "stigma" is something I find so profound and so judgemental and hippocritical.

Now imagine a member, who stopped being part of that stigma many years ago. Imagine a member that is asked and presumed or assumed by others, to be viewed in that realm and always a part of that stigma. Then one can view these women in another light as well....hmmm. What is fair is fair is it not? Or we can never undo what the past has created?

Ah the complexity of it all. Next time a model meets a member and the member refuses to be part of that stigma, perhaps that member is attempting to break down that stigma.

Great discussion. camgirlnotes/bq.gif

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#20 [url]

Jul 20 10 8:24 PM

I agree that sometimes the clients are judged as coolbreeze said. Still, I think if a model underestimates a member means to underestimate themselves.
I mean how would I feel to think that only a wanker, sociopath or however, would chat, talk with me and visit me in a show? That means I can't attract smart, sensitive guys that really appreciate a woman and simply have the normal desire to see a beautiful woman naked? I don't think so.
There are people and people, but that doesnt mean I put a name on some persons I don't know from all points of view. A person might feel lonely at a time, but doesnt mean is not smart or respectable, it would be superficial to think that.
Yes, there are some misogynists I wouldnt want to meet somebody like them in real life, but it's only from that point of view.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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