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Sep 30 10 11:19 AM

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"You know what I hate? When people who call themselves feminists tell me that Im degrading myself or messing myself up by being a stripper (if only she knew what shes doing to herself, they whisper). After over a decade of dancing, Ive got a pretty good idea of exactly what Im doing, and Im feminist enough not to let them define my experience. Sometimes men even do it, I know it all seems fun and exciting now, but soon youll be passed out on heroin getting raped for ten bucks, trust me, I know these things. They think this does something for their manly image.

I love stripping. I love getting naked and dancing under red lights. I love crawling around in peoples laps and bringing them into themselves. Its one of the most sacred things I have ever done.

Sometimes I resent the context of it all. I resent having to deal with a bunch of drunk young guys who are looking for something so different from what I offer, and I wish I could cloister myself away in a sacred temple convent of holy whores. But most of the time I appreciate the way a strip club is a tiny replica of the whole world. I love that I dance with law students and coke heads and we are all just women. I love that Ive learned more about the patriarchy from drunken assholes than is even possible to learn sitting in a feminist theory class listening to abstract concepts.

I also love that I can pretty much work where and whenever I want, and that when I do work I make enough money that I dont really have to work very often, if I dont want to. I think its disgusting and fucked up that the dominant culture forces people to go do what theyre told for forty hours a week in order to have a place to live and food to eat. Forty hours a week of slavery, in exchange for food and a bed. If your a good slave, you can have a nice big house, health insurance, and a fancy car, and youll probably identify with the slave-makers. Its an awful system that I like to think Im completely seperate from.."

"Unlike in the dominant culture, though, strippers dont have to go through long periods of re-socialization to get money. We dont have to go to fancy colleges and learn how to act professional and care about fancy plates. We dont have to work in offices with people who are concerned with killing rodents. We take our clothes off, wiggle in peoples laps, and, often, drink.

In any dressing room there is at least one stripper who has fancy dishes, at least one stripper who just got off the phone with her boyfriend in jail, at least one stripper whose in graduate school, at least one stripper who just got back into dancing and is worried about her kids who she left with her abusive boyfriend because its the only way to make money to get them away from him, and at least one stripper whos totally stressing out because she cant decide if her kid should go to the Montgomery school or the Waldorf school this year. Theyre all gonna make at least five hundred dollars tonight, although last night they might have made thirty dollars or two hundred dollars or a thousand dollars. And it wont change their class a bit, unless they want it to."

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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#1 [url]

Sep 30 10 3:52 PM

So basically all the ills and "what's wrong" with everything is because of what men have done.

Basically, men are to blame.

Is that how I should interpret this post?

Mind you, it takes two people to disagree or agree. Unless that one person is a tad short of a few marbles upstairs.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#2 [url]

Sep 30 10 7:40 PM

QUOTE
Basically, men are to blame.


who said anything about blaming or not somebody?This shows what thought have ppl all the time - who to blame or who are blamed.

It's the pov of a passionate stripper about feminists and general life situations.
Also there isn't "something wrong" or "something bad" , those extreme categories of things are childish.
I think you shouldnt't interpret, it's take it or leave it.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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#3 [url]

Sep 30 10 10:25 PM

So how should one literally view this article?

As a drunken asshole, a cokehead, or as a rant about how free and empowered this person feels?

As it is, they enjoy the freedom and empowerment that they can toy with drunken guys while disliking the judgements about what they do as their job.

Which,when looking from an other POV, that there are people who actually enjoy their 8 hour/Day,40 hr/week,alternate jobs,that they do not view as slavery.

But it does begin with the words,"I hate".Well some could respond, "they hate it" when other people view or say working at a non-sexual job that is not beneath them or degrading,is their enjoyment and love. Where the work is quite fulfilling and constructive than learning more about Patriarchy from those very same drunken assholes. The ironic thing is,that the Patriarchal theory learned in this writers rant, is hinting to how fucked up it really is in reality at their place of employment,but is not even spoken of.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#4 [url]

Sep 30 10 10:28 PM

ok, i move it in models area. It's obviously not for your eyes. there are things that ahve been explained before. there are people and people in any kind of job. That matters the most is a media, not the exceptions,and if u read better, she was ok with the media of their cleint's quality.
But i think everybody understands what he wants, like always.

yes, im sure there are persons who enjoy they 40 hours/week work, but this post wasnt about them. Could u at least once not think about ppl that think opposite like always?

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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#5 [url]

Sep 30 10 10:37 PM

Well go ahead and move it. You have the control and power to.Perhaps I will start a different thread and state what others feel.

Censorship, hmmm, from an alternate point of view.Is freedom of speech about how someone else feels and about how less important or dismissed another alternate view written, as rubbish to others then?

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#6 [url]

Sep 30 10 10:40 PM


trainer, all this forum is about what others feel and think about cam girls. strippers or hookers no need to start new and new topics about. U can simply copy/paste what u said other times on the opened topics. Of course, no problem in opening new and new topics about what all the rest of the world feels.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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#7 [url]

Oct 1 10 3:41 AM

QUOTE
...all this forum is about what others feel and think about cam girls. strippers or hookers no need to start new and new topics about. U can simply copy/paste what u said other times on the opened topics. Of course, no problem in opening new and new topics about what all the rest of the world feels.


What she said. Except perhaps the subject of the new new topics. This is CAM GIRL NOTES, not member notes. Notice how many cam girl notes there really are? Notice how each one of them gets smothered in member opinion? The repetition is getting old.

Breeze

~ ~ AFFINITY ~ ~

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#8 [url]

Oct 1 10 4:00 AM

I remind you Coolbreeze, that without those members, these womens services would not be in demand.

I also say it is getting old.

Read my new economic post. The next wave is upon all of them.

Salvation lies within doesn't it. Camming is something that these women flock to, to pay their bills and survive.

All those countless wankers are there because they have been saturated by the endless sea of sex, sex and sex. Many become addicted to the fantasy. And many cam models have admitted and told it like it is here. How they really feel about these men.

Yet, you support these women and you have the right to your opinion as does anyone here.

Yet, it goes without saying that most men think with the wrong head. Those wankers are the target that these women make their bread and butter off of this.

And yet, many of these chat hostesses make much more than the average addicted wanker that visits them when you tally up the means to an end. And on top of that, they laugh at those very same wankers.

This may be camgirl notes, but without the members that feed them, there would not be a forum to read and listen to everyone involved.

So pardon me, if I am just as opinionated as our forum moderator here.

Needless to say, welcome to the pornified eworld, where it ain't just about camgirls in reality.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#9 [url]

Oct 1 10 4:27 AM

QUOTE
I remind you Coolbreeze, that without those members, these womens services would not be in demand.


You're correct. And this IS Pornland, so get a clue. It's not nice, and it's not ethical, and it's not fair. Members are sheep to be fleeced in this world and there is no changing that fact. They're simple and they're not going anywhere so the droll about models needing them is true, but irrelevant.

QUOTE
Salvation lies within doesn't it. Camming is something that these women flock to, to pay their bills and survive.


Some, yes. Others are here to make bank. Without working 50-60 hours a week for a fraction of what they can earn from the endless sea of wankers who can't control their own urges and have a warped sense of self and sexuality. Spider/Fly.

QUOTE
Yet, it goes without saying that most men think with the wrong head. Those wankers are the target that these women make their bread and butter off of this.

And yet, many of these chat hostesses make much more than the average addicted wanker that visits them when you tally up the means to an end. And on top of that, they laugh at those very same wankers.


OF COURSE THEY LAUGH AT THEM. It's like taking candy from a baby. I said something before to the members, and there was a lot of agreement, but you are still talking about it. You fault the GIRLS for taking the member's money? If you don't want to be fleeced (or emotionally hurt), stay the hell out of Pornland!! The girls themselves might be sweet in real life, but this isn't real life and you're not talking to the girl. You're talking to the CAMGIRL. Which is what you're paying for. In more ways than one.

QUOTE
So pardon me, if I am just as opinionated as our forum moderator here.


Sure, but you're a member. Not a Camgirl. It's their opinions I'm interested in and their perspective which the forum needs more of. It's also their opinions the other PERFORMERS are interested in. You think they don't already know the member's opinions? I sort of laugh at that. They hear those opinions every day, from HUNDREDS of Wankmasters along with the occassional white knight.

Breeze

~ ~ AFFINITY ~ ~

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#10 [url]

Oct 1 10 5:22 AM

See that is where you are wrong.

Even way back when I was one of those poor misguided sheep, I still did not consider them a camgirl or a piece of meat.Perhaps, I was that piece of meat to them, like so many others, so juicy and fresh. But all along,I was talking and interacting with a real person,in my naive sheepish eyes.


Flesh and meat, meat and potatoes.

Nonetheless, after all this time..... you still wish to hear from these women and their points of views. And why is that? I certainly have listened.

Now really, here is an example for ya all.

I logged onto a site that I used to frequent often. Randomly clicking on each chat hostesses rooms, observing the chat and the work. Through all the endless begging and demented fantasy that this industry is all about I came across a woman.

Did I have the inclination to view her as a sexual object or did I view her as a person,or maybe her breasts caught my eye?(It was the second one) Well of course, she is half naked anyway, how can anyone not notice. Well anyway, as she greeted me, after the proverbial hello's and hru's, the next most frequently questions from her was "where are you from" and "what is your age?" I imagine that it is such a joy for her to ask that to so many insignificant random nicknames as well as the same asked of her,so many times within her shift.

I used a little humor to break the ice, because she was bored to fucking death with the joy she endured for a while there. And welcomed a refreshing change of pace there.

We chatted for awhile exchanging humorous banter, all the while a few poor shmucks entered and said "show me your boobs" or "Spread your legs baby".

Of course, my simple human interaction in a pornland of twisted fantasy in which she earns her salary for whatever purpose she did not have to say a word to me, because her eyes told me what she truly was feeling while we chatted.

Unfortunately, this is what it has become for them. And on it goes, the same old crap that continually never changes after all these years that I have seen throughout my cyber travels. Yet, in that cheap free exchange of freeing her from the mundane boredom that she endures, she thanked me for treating her a bit differently.

She quipped about why I was leaving, because I felt so guilty that I would eventually have to tell her that I was a waste of her time if she expected me to go private with her. Where she simply said"Why are you leaving before I had a chance to invite you for a private?" And I replied with, " I made you smile and that was enough for me and it was free".

Then she invited me to return anytime. Of course I have that bullseye on my forehead. So I simply wished her a good day, knowing that she was fibbing about where she was really from and she wondered how I figured it out,when I mentioned that to her. I left it at that.

So as I watch country after country fall deeper into economic despair, where with each day, the age of a model increases along with the quantity,which now is encompassing many western countries, and do you realize the eventuality of that simple observation?

Yet, you say they are nice good girls, so be it. I am sure they are. But look at the bigger picture now. Perhaps I will find my unemployed 56 year old cousin online or possibly find a close friend of yours on the other end of the screen begging my cousin to spread her legs for them for money.

So think bigger, because things ain't getting better. So perhaps the old rhetoric needs to address the real issues other than what their opinions and feelings are in the grand scheme of it all. Like I have said here, I have listened to quite a few personally.

Now I ask once again, How does change occur, or perhaps you enjoy watching them take candy from a ignorant child , or is it from a mindless wanker? Or as you say, let's leave it alone and watch what happens. Well I have been watching for a long time sir.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#11 [url]

Oct 1 10 7:26 AM

QUOTE
Even way back when I was one of those poor misguided sheep, I still did not consider them a camgirl or a piece of meat.Perhaps, I was that piece of meat to them, like so many others, so juicy and fresh. But all along,I was talking and interacting with a real person,in my naive sheepish eyes.


Which is one of our member categories, and performers have their own set of rules for dealing with members like this. You know it as well as I.

QUOTE
Nonetheless, after all this time..... you still wish to hear from these women and their points of views. And why is that? I certainly have listened.


Yes, I do. Because I'm actually hearing what they're saying and listening with an open mind.

QUOTE
I logged onto a site that I used to frequent often. Randomly clicking on each chat hostesses rooms, observing the chat and the work. Through all the endless begging and demented fantasy that this industry is all about I came across a woman.

Did I have the inclination to view her as a sexual object or did I view her as a person,or maybe her breasts caught my eye?(It was the second one) Well of course, she is half naked anyway, how can anyone not notice.


This is EXACTLY why you're too close to the situation to be able to see clearly. What the hell are you doing logging in anymore like that in the first place? Randomly clicking your way deeper into addiction?

QUOTE
Yet, you say they are nice good girls, so be it. I am sure they are. But look at the bigger picture now. Perhaps I will find my unemployed 56 year old cousin online or possibly find a close friend of yours on the other end of the screen begging my cousin to spread her legs for them for money.


Not all. Some are bitches and bastards. Just like people we come across in other areas of our lives. Some are nice girls who have hardened up enough to do the job and make some money. And if they've chosen to do so, what business is it of yours?

QUOTE
Now I ask once again, How does change occur, or perhaps you enjoy watching them take candy from a ignorant child , or is it from a mindless wanker? Or as you say, let's leave it alone and watch what happens. Well I have been watching for a long time sir.


I don't enjoy it. And members are not all "mindless" wankers. But I don't have much sympathy for them either. For the "member group" as a whole. At all. For the performers though, I do. Because I relate to them. Perhaps that's our difference.

Breeze



~ ~ AFFINITY ~ ~

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#12 [url]

Oct 1 10 8:20 AM

QUOTE
without those members, these womens services would not be in demand


and should we raise a statue or what? without models wouldnt be any members either. it's one hand washing another. or is that mentality " members pay so the models should shut the fuck up, even on an no commercial forum"



QUOTE
but without the members that feed them,


nobody "feeds' me cause i dont receive donation of money fall from sky. My work is the only thing that feeds me. if i wouldnt be online, having members somewhere there doenst help at all.
Im not begging for those money, I work for them.

and even so, what that has to do with this forum? I dont see members as here as a target, nobody from here 'feeds" me. It's only about not cancel any women's from sex work field, anytime it's post something, in the next second. I like your opinion, you have good points most of the time, but you cancel any tentative of another perspectve sometimes. Like I'd say "this is white", and u next "no, for me it's black, let's start a subject about how black it is for me"

And yes, maybe i was too naive that on camgirls notes we can talk the models point of view, at least in "Models issues". It seems i was wrong, I should appologise for daring to put when's perspectives first, should I?

Let's face it... this is cam members notes actually. Look at the members lists, cam girls are only a few, no wonder why

QUOTE
Yet, it goes without saying that most men think with the wrong head.


yes, i had that opinion before working on cam and u know for most it is very true.

you keep sayiing about looking from outside the box, then u reduce everything to your own experience. Ok, i know u have experience as member, but when ull strip in clubs or in front of your webcam, for money, I'd consider your expereince part of "models view", it woudlnt matter that you are a man.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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#13 [url]

Oct 1 10 8:30 AM

QUOTE (camgirl @ October 01, 2010 08:20 am)
Let's face it... this is cam members notes actually. Look at the members lists, cam girls are only a few, no wonder why

Ok, but iguess it is possible to simply ignore the public area, and "live your life" in your restricted zone. Seeing from CB's 'hello' thread a list of models who have made some 4 posts altogether or so, it doesn't seem like they are too active there as well...

�I do not agree with a word that you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it�

Voltaire

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#14 [url]

Oct 1 10 8:37 AM



yeah, thats way way of going from now. i thought it's an interesting text for all to read, but you're right.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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#15 [url]

Oct 1 10 8:42 AM

QUOTE (camgirl @ October 01, 2010 08:37 am)
. i thought it's an interesting text for all to read

For sure it is. But, I also support that Trainer or whoever can give his or her opinion - if everyone is following mainstream (whatever it should be), there is no need to post anything at all.

�I do not agree with a word that you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it�

Voltaire

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#16 [url]

Oct 1 10 8:50 AM

well.. i already know each's opinion. We keep discuss discussions. Not even one another model posted. U guys will end by talking between yourselves only. charming and revealing, wouldnt that be? And you said you care about others or caring about others is only another opinion about yourself to feel good, but in the end, only your box of opinions matter?

Maybe I'm one of the few models that give a damn about member's opinion, still, it's like chinese drop sometimes, whatever I post, doesnt matter if it has something to do with the subject, a guy comes "oo.. i see.. it's all about your disturbed view about men.. i know it..." and reduce everything.

well. for your info , no, it's not all about men. and im starting to think no good or bad about members, just walk away if they think all is limited to once's experience.


well.. maybe that's ok and i'm just pissed and tired these days...

and No, I'm not pissed because of a member/man/ or male of whatever species.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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#19 [url]

Oct 1 10 1:47 PM

QUOTE
We keep discuss discussions. Not even one another model posted. U guys will end by talking between yourselves only.


You've all heard this before, but now you're hearing it from a Sr. Model moderator and the forum chair. And by "all" I mean the male members of the forum who are vocal and the female members of the forum who are not.

QUOTE
well. for your info , no, it's not all about men. and im starting to think no good or bad about members, just walk away if they think all is limited to once's experience.


She's not the only one thinking this.

Breeze


~ ~ AFFINITY ~ ~

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#20 [url]

Oct 1 10 1:55 PM

QUOTE (CoolBreeze @ October 01, 2010 01:47 pm)
now you're hearing it from a Sr. Model moderator and the forum chair.

And I think that you are not only overprotective, but also elitist. Now, feel happy that I gave you a personal reason to ban me

�I do not agree with a word that you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it�

Voltaire

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