Oct 2 10 1:02 PM

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Nice Markland....And thanks to Dean too... One quick observation though, most of my posts over the past two years have been informational ones - re-posting press articles here, as opposed to opinion pieces or cat-fights with other members, but yes Dean (and Markland), sometimes I fall off the wagon too and talk out of turn instead of listening.

Now as to this discussion which is probably driving some models nuts and running from the forum as fast as they can - yet again... I agree Trainer has a tendency to "personalize responsibility" for problems that are "structural aspects" of the adult/ porn industry and to the global economic division of labor within the international "leisure" and "tourism" industries wherein it fits... But he's right to brings up issues that are real problems, even if he sometime loses sight of them by pulling them back into his personal life narrative - and burying them there.

I am looking at two volumes on my desk. One is called "Love and Globalization," the other is "Sun, Sex and Gold: Tourism and Sex Work In the Caribbean." The first deals with the global transfer of women from Asia or Latin America to the sex markets and the households of the Metropoles of the Global North,- Global cities like Frankfurt, Tokyo, London, New York, Paris, Rome and Shanghai. The second deals with role of the sex industry as a crucial sector that supports the profitability of the tourism industry in the Caribbean Islands generally..

Both were written in the late 1990's so they don't deal with impact of the Internet on these kinds of exchanges of people and services between "provider countries" in the Global South and "countries of destination" in the Global North.. But clearly there's a global division of labor that structures who gets bought and who does the buying, who's the entertainment and who consuming the experience as a tourist. Sociologists have been making a comparison since the 1980s between mass tourism in "exotic locales" that offer a pretty standardized product, and the "touristic" sexual experience" that men - and now increasingly women too - can get by going to their local "Gentleman's club" or by going on-line to talk to a video-chatista from Eastern Europe or the Philippines...

I was talking to a Romanian model the other day about the fact that Eastern Europe - especially countries like Bulgaria, Romania and the Ukraine - have become very important "provider countries" in this international sex tourism trade. Sometimes the sex tourism is real - like in Brazil, Santo Domingo, Thailand and now the Ukraine - but often it's virtual...She answered defiantly "we are not a nation of whores..." almost making an echo of the angry slogan of the feminist Femen movement in Ukrania : "The Ukraine Is Not a Bordello.." I would love to see a demonstration in Bucharest that used the slogans, "Romania Is NOT a Nation of Whores!" or "We Are Not For Sale!" to mobilize its women artists, actors and students as the Femen have already done in Kyif and Odessa.

But unfortunately, I suspect that countries like Romania like the Ukraine like Lativia, etc, have been locked into structural position where the sex industry and sex tourism are too important to their international balance of trade, and their ability to attract hard currency, for those protest to get very far. This sector is now where the jobs are. This trade is where the foreign currency is generated.. And it's a very hard choice to let the economic opportunities and wealth it creates pass you by - whether or not you think that entertaining the foreigners is "degrading" or "exciting."

This discussion is not about the moral choices that good or bad men and women make - "whores and wankers/" - This is about the structures of "opportunity" that the international capitalist system assigns to different countries located in different regional economic zones. I will leave the case of the United States to one side for the moment, since we seem to have both our Eastern and Western "Gold Coasts" and our own internal underdeveloped periphery that just keeps expanding to include more and more of the country. It's like our own internal "Romania" or "Ukraine" that's been called "Meth-land" or "the Rustbelt"

I am sure that they had similar debates in Havana when it was the sexual playground of North America and the Mafia ran its Hotels and Casinos under the Batista regime.. And I know they are having those same debates today ever since that the Castro regime accepted that they had no choice but to invite the foreign sex tourists back in fifteen years ago to save the Cuban economy... Castro's Cuba became another "Pimp State" because they had run out of other choices - and their Soviet Subsidies..

So let's stop blaming each other about this situation.. and think it through instead...

P.S. this topic was originally part of the long thread in Read The Members started by camgirl: "Feminism, Western Civilization, Stripping and Slavery." I decided that this was better as a stand alone topic and put it here.
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"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#1 [url]

Oct 2 10 1:30 PM

I would love to see a demonstration in Bucharest that used that slogan, "Romania is NOT a nation of whores!" to mobilize its students..

the demonstration should be done in USA because u are those who see us that way.
it was a topic on the romanian forum about "how americans see us" .. and it's about americans that never been once in Romania, never met any romanian girl in their entire life and still think that.
There is no sex tourism more then in USA, contrary, it's full for strip clubs in USA, more dangerous to work there then online, but i think american girls prefer to work in strip clubs because they avoid taxes better then receiving money by bank from online work. (over 600$ received by bank has to be declared there)

As time as nobody donate us money or hire us in better jobs, other opinions really doesnt matter. I'm sure many want just to be let in peace to do what they do, without waves that put their posibilities to earn money, in danger,.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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#2 [url]

Oct 2 10 1:38 PM

Touche camgirl ! FYI, the slogan of the Campus Anti-Trafficking movement in the US is in fact "Not For Sale!!" So these issues are as real as our own huge domestic trafficking problem with teen-aged kids from our internal periphery to our big cities.

But even so, why then did the Ukrainian Femen need to invent that slogan for their protest movement? And which country does Romania resemble the most within the international division of labor - the American Metropole or the Ukrainian Periphery?

More than a matter of "perceptions," this discussion is about "structures of power," but I agree that manufacturing and marketing those "categories of perception" as "national brand names" in Western countries is very important to tourist industries in the Global south - be the tourists real or virtual..

P.S. Femen now has a page on FaceBook.. UKRAINE is not a BROTHEL!
"Men of the world, who your face against the brutal sex industry in Ukraine (and elsewhere)."
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"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#3 [url]

Oct 2 10 1:40 PM

ask them.
I dont know about their situation there. For sure they cant leave their country as easier as romanians can. Or maybe they are a nation composed by majorities of nymphos and it's their right to like sex, whatever some minorities say.

About teen-ages.. allt he models from videochat have to proove they re over 18. So we speak about adult women that decide that they do, not teen attracted with candies.

Anyway, the biggest adult websites are based in USA. So if we are a nation of whores, you are a nation of pimps, so a bigger problem there, and I dont mean it only sexually.. Plus some make a title of glory from that.. Snoop Dog etc..
I've never heard one romanian, in any field to be proud that he's a pimp, those who really are stay silent.

Maybe if your business woudlnt be so developted there, there woudl be more independent models here, to receive higher % of what the members spend.

And i don't think we are similar to Ukraine, firstly because need to have similar laws with UE, which is not always in our advantage. Should I mention the money we, as poorer country, give them actually to USA to stay in NATO, when other european countries refused, or how many fabrics has been bought by other countries citizen, not to give jobs, but to sell them as real estates after? You are those who made our situation harder, we wouldnt never been in crise if we woudlnt have been in EU, NATO .. to support others consequences, after everything was sold so no local production anymore. And now when we try to keep the heads up, we're considered a nation of whores and asked how come you don't handle it in another way.... Nice and sarcastic in the same time
I think we've suffered enough damages of the "good" that others want to do for us.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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#4 [url]

Oct 6 10 6:29 PM

Agreed cqm-girl..these are western made brand names.. And Romanians like Ukrainians are being marketed to western men as a kind of exotic sex product -the "Happy hookers of Eastern Europe," "les files de l'Est" wno are at same time being packaged for Westerners' "hungry eyes" as traditional women who are taught to be sexually submissive to their men, and who remain uncontaminated and unspoiled by Western Feminist ideas of gender equality and sexual reciprocity.. etc. etc. Ofc, this is a cynical "brand image" that specifically caters to our ignorance of and prejudices about Eastern Europe. But it's enough to close the deal, and make the sale.

This is the language used both on the sex tourist sites and by the International Marriage Brokers who marketing Eastern European and Russian Brides to Western men (losers., douchebags) who have failed to find satisfactory partners in their local marriage "markets" back home.

Of course.. the Western men who fall for this are frequently in for a rude surprise when they bring their trophy wife or gf home and then find out the women they picked out of the line-up back in Kyif are better educated than they are and culturally more sophisticated.. A formula for heartbreak and eventually divorce.

For more on this look at this post by EB:

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"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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