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tealoneal

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Dec 1 10 9:17 AM

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I used to come here regularly and found the site informative. I disagreed with most of what I read but still considered it to be worth reading. Most opinions expressed were thoughtful. Respectful disagreement was the norm.

My absence and recent return seems ro have coincided with a paradigm shift. Members are now treated with a disdain that borders on hostility. Models are welcomed with an embarrassing deference. There are threads in which members have been more-or-less told to butt out simply because they are members. Models are advised to dash off to the top secret models area to avoid "prying eyes".

What gives? If you don't want members in this forum then ban us. If you want us to stay in the members issues section then restrict us to it.

Look, I know that this site is struggling to retain model participants. I know that some people think that the large number of members is to blame. I even saw the thread on another site which discussed some of the reasons that models don't signup he. You'll deal with that as you deem appropriate and I wish you the best with it.

All I ask is that you lay out some guidelines instead of going to such lengths to make members feel like unwelcome hangers-on.


If, as I've said all along, the universe is — at any time — what you say it is ... then say! - James Burke
I miss Markland

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#1 [url]

Dec 1 10 9:32 PM

Maybe I'm being over sensitive, but I recognize that much of the general "What the hell is going on around here perspective" taken by many of our CGN member member's has come from my presence here.

I do think that member stories are beneficial and have a place here. And I think that the exchanges between performers and members is also sometimes mutually beneficial. I apologize to those members of CGN who I've made feel unwelcome here. I don't think you're all addicts, nor do I think you've all got psychological or sexual issues. The paradigm shift on the forum is more a response to the paradigm shift in the industry than a calculated change to make site members feel unwelcome. The seemingly "heartless" stance I take regarding the interaction between members and models ON THE SITES THEMSELVES, is directly related to the those things both performers and members talk about here. Pirates, and stalkers and scammers, and assholes, and addiction, and heartbreak... and about making more money because where you work, not play, is a cam site.

I believe there is a place for each on CGN, but to actually facilitate all of it means changing what we've been doing for years. Recognizing why performers don't participate in the discussions here, and addressing those issues.

Something Markland said made such good sense, I hope he won't mind me quoting him, and using the same words to make a similar point.

QUOTE (Markland @ November 30 @ 2010 03:08 pm)

I'm sure, many people here wouldn't like that post. But, scamming is a problem, and if the only place where the ones who are scammed can turn are the pirate sites, you may guess what kind of advice they will get.



Doesn't it also ring true that "if the only place where performers can turn are the established industry forums, you may guess what kind of advice they will get."

CGN has the potential to be the other place. But only it's the performers themselves that can make it that way. Performers like those who are vocal now, who wouldn't still be here if they didn't see or care about the crap goes on every day. But saying they're "skittish" of CGN would be an understatement because of the lengths taken to make performer's feel guilty and unwelcome here.

These views are mine alone, but I've asked UL, Camgirl, and SlideR to review this post. I'm sure they'll speak up if they have something to add.

Breeze

~ ~ AFFINITY ~ ~

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#2 [url]

Dec 2 10 4:22 AM

You want to know what is going on here, it is the same thing that occurs on those sites too.

I think this spells it out quite clearly what I am about to write here.

I had a chat with a good friend who happens to be a cam model. I consider her a very close and dear friend.
I hope they do not get angry at me using our conversation here, but it is quite relevant to what this industry feeds itself on, and is all about, and the "game" or job duties it entails, and what frequently does occur there.

For years this forum informed members and models and most everyone what really does occur in cyberia on these chat sites. Even if some do not wish to read, hear it or admit it.

The bait and hook of members who may or may not be lonely, addicted, perverts or whatever anyone wishes to call or consider others as, is what makes this so interconnected in such a way, that it is, in my opinion, just a shame and sad disgrace of human weakness and their treatment of most others.

Now back to my chat with my friend. I told them out of the blue, that they are a good friend of mine. They replied genuinely in an equivalent response. Then they told me something quite telling about what I recently got angry at here, in the direction and purpose of CGN, and all that I have seen, experienced and know to be fact, irregardless of what some others may think or do themselves in this job and industry.

She said it would not be possible for us to be friends if we met on her work time. I asked her why? She responded, because it is impossible. I asked again why?" Am I any different there, than I am here away from her work?" , I asked.(yes, I have stopped by in her chat a few times)-but not as a paying member, but yes as a "member" nonetheless. She said no. But then also said, I am not a paying client.

Then I asked her, why does it make a difference? If I met you there, and didn't pay for services, am I a different person? She said yes. I asked again why? She said because there she would not be able to trust me.

I said, hmmm.... So just because I am a member there, immediately you classify me in this category, and that I can not be trusted, but I am trustworthy away from the sites or work she is online at. I then said, well, If you trust me here, why would you not trust me there, then?

Well I didn't push it, but I understand to a point her feelings. But it also highlights exactly what I feel makes this cyber job so disturbing to me as a human being. Also it is why, I do not believe in treating others as a piece of crap until they treat others as such.

With this said, I am taking my leave of this forum and hope you all understand my point and view these days regarding this all nowadays.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#3 [url]

Dec 2 10 4:31 AM

To me it has to do with what the forum is supposed to be for. My understanding at least is that the forum is here to address the issues models experience - for models to talk with one another and with members, and for members to talk about their experiences as well, but with the focus being on the effects of this job on society and especially on the models themselves. A lot of the focus seems to be on reducing the harmful effects, educating models, and possibly trying to get them out of cam work, or at least making sure they have a safe working environment where they are fairly compensated and they understand the dangers and risks involved, as well as trying to move towards a world in which camming is a free and open choice and not one that is coerced (economically or otherwise).

As with any situation in which outsiders want to help/contribute to an issue (the problems and pitfalls of camming and the ways in which models are harmed by them), in my opinion, it's impossible to actually do any good without centering the voices of the people most affected (models themselves). I personally see a shift away from focusing on members as good for what the site is supposed to do (at least in my understanding, which may well be totally off base). Not that members' input isn't important...but just as rich folks' opinions on poverty are not going to illustrate what it means to be a poor person and white folks' opinions about the experiences of people of color won't completely paint a full picture of what it's like to live as a person of color, members cannot and should not speak for or to the exclusion of models. That's what it means to center someone's voice.

In addition, it is not safe for a lot of models to post in public about certain things, which is why the models' forum exists and why we are encouraged to use it (at least in my understanding). Not to make members feel left out, but to protect models, many of whom live in areas where this occupation is undesirable or even dangerous.

That's not to say the experiences of members with the camming industry (and the sex industry as a whole, and with politics and economics in the areas we talk about) are not important. We talk a lot about members' experiences as consumers in the camming business and how the dynamics of the business affect everyone - members, models, studio owners, site owners, piraters, average joes on the street. But that at least in my understanding is not the primary focus of the forum, at least not to the point that we jeopardize the importance of the experiences of models or the safety of models who post here.

Personally, I think the forum does a good job of this on the whole, although I've seen certain discussions (and experienced some comments) that made me somewhat uncomfortable.

I apologize sincerely if anything I've said is untoward or if I've misinterpreted anything about the forum; any errors are absolutely my own fault. I also apologize for speaking so assertively, especially since I have not been a member of the forum (or a model myself) for that long. But this is how I understand things, as a model here.

la muerte viene siempre / si se pobre o rebelde / no sé cómo empezar / otro guerrillero! / más pobreza, más violencia /
estos son las consecuencias / no sé donde va para / otra guerrillera! / las mujeres en la lucha no pueden parar

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#4 [url]

Dec 2 10 5:18 AM

QUOTE
Well I didn't push it, but I understand to a point her feelings. But it also highlights exactly what I feel makes this cyber job so disturbing to me as a human being.


that has nothing to do with you as human being. Once a girl can be seen by somebody working on cam, she is more exposed much more then a member who come and chat with or without showing his cam, because of that sex worker stigma and of different reasons.
So better safe and sorry. I'm sure there are more girls on date sites that will trust you, because no doubts u're an ok guy. If it's disturbing for u, better to not try to make friends in cam world. It should be simple.

On topic.

I agree with CoolBreeze and lookingforwishes. The members post the most in public so I dot see where's the problem, even it's a mostly for cam girls forum.
Probably the problem is the lake of real interests or empathy of some regarding the models activity and they want to talk only from their experience POV (which of course, can be valuable, but incomplete)

QUOTE
  I even saw the thread on another site which discussed some of the reasons that models don't signup he


yes, I saw it too, and it's a clear feed-back regarding this forum.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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#5 [url]

Dec 2 10 5:25 AM

QUOTE (tealoneal @ December 01, 2010 09:17 am)
I used to come here regularly and found the site informative. I disagreed with most of what I read but still considered it to be worth reading. Most opinions expressed were thoughtful. Respectful disagreement was the norm.

Being new to this forum, I have a different perspective on this issue. After reading more than a few posts, many of which contained links that I found to be interesting, I gathered that this site was not so much about cam modelling as it is about ...

1. Getting cam models to quit because they are being exploited
2. 'Paying members' should stop patronizing cam sites because we facilitate the exploitation
3. 'Paying members' are idiots because we're being taken advantagee of by cam models and studios.

That's the feeling I get after reading a lot of the posts on here. It's all very negative. All you have to do is look at the topics of all the pinned posts on any given forum to see that. You don't even have to take the time to read any of the actual posts. Just look at the pinned posts in the "Members Issues" forum.

Miss Jane : Clients who become too attached
Who Makes the Money
What Are The Alternatives?
Cam Girls Lounge : Types Of Members Losers
Older Men Trying to Buy Younger Women
A Wanker's Tale
What We Don't Approve Of
It Is Time To Go

Ever single one of these topics devolves into "Models are being exploited" and "Don't support the exploitation". The thing is that it seems to be only a few individuals who keep steering the conversations into that direction.

eg.
Oh, you wanted to talk about a good experience you had with a cam model? That's off-topic, let me tell you what's really going on. Cam models are actually taught how to hook you in so that you spend all your money on her. It's all a fantasy. No shit. I already knew that, but thanks for killing what could have been an otherwise interesting thread of people's positive experiences.

Every single thread on this site either starts off negative or becomes negative.

My rants done. I'll get off my high horse now and go back to lurking mode.

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#6 [url]

Dec 2 10 5:39 AM

QUOTE
It's all a fantasy.No shit. I already knew that, but thanks for killing what could have been an otherwise interesting thread of people's positive experiences.


actually fantasy is not a bad thing as long as u know it's fantasy. And making money of fooling people might be very positive experiences for some models, just not for members Yeah, I know it's uncomfortable to read about reality and not about nice dreams.

About the cam girls being exploited if u had the curiosity to read some of my posts, personally Ive never thought and felt that way, contrary. Cam sites provide a place to work for cam girls, and yes, it's a cake everybody takes a piece, normally, some better then others and it's each model's decision where she works.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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tealoneal

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Posts: 83

#7 [url]

Dec 2 10 5:44 AM

QUOTE (coolbreeze)
Maybe I'm being over sensitive, but I recognize that much of the general "What the hell is going on around here perspective" taken by many of our CGN member member's has come from my presence here

CoolBreeze, I certainly wasn't referring to you or anyone in particular. There is nobody on the forum that I consider to be individually negative or unwelcoming. It was more of an emerging disdain for cam site customers that I sensed and commented about.

The members issues section of this forum is superior to other sites. Cam site forums are filled with too much talk of love (and plenty of spam). The piracy forums seem to cater to adolescents. The other two main forums are for models to share money making insights. This forum is the only one where members can discuss their experiences with any degree of honesty.

My intent wasn't to suggest that this is a bad forum (though I suppose, my post could have come across that way). My intent was to suggest that this is a good forum for members and taking that part of it away may not be the only way to increase model participation.

QUOTE (TRAINER)
I am taking my leave of this forum and hope you all understand my point

Stay. I don't agree with everything you post but your posts were helpful to me when I joined this forum last year. I drifted away but I stop by to read your posts from time to time.

QUOTE (camgirl)
The members post the most in public so I dot see where's the problem, even it's a mostly for cam girls forum.

You've mentioned before that you feel that there are too many member posts and too few model posts. Are you trying to correct the imbalance by reducing the number of member's posts?

If, as I've said all along, the universe is — at any time — what you say it is ... then say! - James Burke
I miss Markland

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#8 [url]

Dec 2 10 5:48 AM

QUOTE
Are you trying to correct the imbalance by reducing the number of member's posts?


No, but I discourage the posts regarding the blame, moral judge, attacks and hate that make models run away of here (of course, not from cam work as some from here intend). Because the forum is already full of that, and what's enough is enough.

About the feeling that are too few posted by models, it's an objective one. Look at the top 10 most posts:

UncleLewis Global Moderators 3 057
TRAINER Publishers 1 606
camgirl Forum Chair 1 042
SlideR Admin 698
grthngs Silver Members 493
Markland Members 418
Bittersweet Silver Members 397
Tim Silver Members 397
CoolBreeze Non-Model Moderators 383
Wanker Silver Members 252

the next 10..

facile911 Silver Members 236
Delfina Models 231- she used to post 4 years and left because of the members attitude
Vaio Silver Members 226
Dean12345 Publishers 222
Indx Silver Members 209
Supernova Silver Members 187
rs3 Silver Members 155
andradavalent Global Moderators 150
belea_79 Models 143 - same, she didnt post since few years
vishbar Silver Members 143

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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tealoneal

Chatter Box !

Posts: 83

#9 [url]

Dec 2 10 6:46 AM

QUOTE (camgirl @ December 02, 2010 05:48 am)
QUOTE
Are you trying to correct the imbalance by reducing the number of member's posts?


No, but I discourage the posts regarding the blame, moral judge, attacks and hate that make models run away of here (of course, not from cam work as some from here intend). Because the forum is already full of that, and what's enough is enough.

Negative portrayal of the industry and models probably does alienate models but how many members are posting that nonsense? Surely it is just a fraction. Many of the negative posts are old (by Internet standards) and could be archived. Others are more recent but they have been debated by models and members alike.

The parts of your post that I found somewhat compelling were:
QUOTE
Delfina Models 231- she used to post 4 years and left  because of the members attitude
belea_79 Models 143 - same, she didnt post since few years

These are things that happened years ago but if negative member posts are driving new models away then, of course, you need to deal with it. I just ask that you understand that not every member is here to share a dislike of models or the industry.
---------------------------
QUOTE
**** forum may not be as informative, but it is definitely more friendly and conducive to conversation.

A little free advertising? Sure I looked, but I only looked for a moment.

If, as I've said all along, the universe is — at any time — what you say it is ... then say! - James Burke
I miss Markland

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#10 [url]

Dec 2 10 7:17 AM

QUOTE
QUOTE

**** forum may not be as informative, but it is definitely more friendly and conducive to conversation.



A little free advertising? Sure I looked, but I only looked for a moment


yeah, I just noticed. That wasnt too nice. Disagreeing with me is one thing, not following the rules is another. So no advertising, pls.

And yes. that might be nice because the purpose there is to attract costumers, so completely different. Trust me, you wouldnt think the same about the 'friendly" side if you'd read the restricted area for models only from there


CG

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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#11 [url]

Dec 2 10 7:27 AM

QUOTE (camgirl @ December 02, 2010 05:39 am)
QUOTE
It's all a fantasy.No shit. I already knew that, but thanks for killing what could have been an otherwise interesting thread of people's positive experiences.


actually fantasy is not a bad thing as long as u know it's fantasy. And making money of fooling people might be very positive experiences for some models, just not for members Yeah, I know it's uncomfortable to read about reality and not about nice dreams.

About the cam girls being exploited if u had the curiosity to read some of my posts, personally Ive never thought and felt that way, contrary. Cam sites provide a place to work for cam girls, and yes, it's a cake everybody takes a piece, normally, some better then others and it's each model's decision where she works.

Actually, I've read quite a few posts on here, including many of yours. Your posts tend to be one of the few positive POVs regarding the symbiotic relationship between cam model and customers.

What I'm saying is that most of the threads on here are very negative about cam modelling in general. Oddly enough, your reply even highlights my point about how negative the threads on this forum can become.

QUOTE
Yeah, I know it's uncomfortable to read about reality and not about nice dreams.


I've actually had this conversation with a cam model who wondered if I was falling in love with her. She had given the impression that her feelings had been hurt by me and I explained how it was all just a fantasy for me which I quite distinctly separate from reality and that if I hurt her feelings I was sorry. That was basically it for me and I stopped visiting her room as a regular, only stopping by on occassion to say hey what's up. Was it just a ruse to get me to spend more money? It seems like a really odd way of doing that.

The thing that stands out to me is how many people who have introduced themselves in the "About You" forum yet never make a post in any of the public threads on here. I'm sure most of them are cam models who stick to the model-only forums, but even then, one would think that a small percentage of them would occassionally give an opinion on a thread in the public forum. The problem is that when only a few voices express themselves, you never get a true representation of how things really are as a whole; both the good and the bad.

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#12 [url]

Dec 2 10 7:47 AM

QUOTE (Tealoneal)
CoolBreeze, I certainly wasn't referring to you or anyone in particular. There is nobody on the forum that I consider to be individually negative or unwelcoming. It was more of an emerging disdain for cam site customers that I sensed and commented about.


I think I understood you from the go Teal, and I hope you don't think I take any offense from your comments because I don't. Quite the contrary. Thank you for raising the issue and bringing it out into the open. I think it's a great topic and one that has needed air for quite some time.

QUOTE (Tealoneal)
My intent wasn't to suggest that this is a bad forum (though I suppose, my post could have come across that way). My intent was to suggest that this is a good forum for members and taking that part of it away may not be the only way to increase model participation.


I think it's a good forum as well, or I would not be here. And performer participation is not the sole driving force behind the changes you see. Personally, I'm not trying to take anything away from the CGN member member's here, but rather open up more to them by the very act of clearing the floor for our performer members. Some folks are going to see this as a good thing, and others are going to see this as a bad thing.

In either case, thank you to those who have contributed to this thread.

Breeze

~ ~ AFFINITY ~ ~

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#13 [url]

Dec 2 10 7:54 AM

QUOTE (camgirl @ December 02, 2010 07:17 am)
QUOTE
QUOTE

**** forum may not be as informative, but it is definitely more friendly and conducive to conversation.



A little free advertising? Sure I looked, but I only looked for a moment


yeah, I just noticed. That wasnt too nice. Disagreeing with me is one thing, not following the rules is another. So no advertising, pls.

And yes. that might be nice because the purpose there is to attract costumers, so completely different. Trust me, you wouldnt think the same about the 'friendly" side if you'd read the restricted area for models only from there


CG

My apologies if it appeared like I was advertising; I wasn't. I'm the type of person that will usually provide context and references to illustrate a point that I'm making.

As far as what the models say in the restricted-area, I can make an educated guess. I've seen a fair share of models rant and complain about the dead beats and losers that they meet on a daily basis. I even watched a popular model on a cam site completely break down in public chat and just go off on how she thought everybody in her chat room were losers. Everybody including myself just shrugged it off. Afterall, at the end of the day, the customers are the ones who are actually doing meaningful work to earn their money; so the opinions go both ways.

What I was getting at is that the conversations on that other site tend to be more cordial, candid, and supportive; as opposed to here, where it tends to be more focused on interogative and informative. The former is more conducive to participation which I think is what the OP was partially making a statement about.

Personally, I don't really care about the former. As I originally said, I've read many of the posts on this site and found it to be quite informative. Referential links only added additional information to issues I am aware of. I was merely expounding upon the OPs comment with an additional POV.

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#14 [url]

Dec 2 10 1:24 PM

I largely agree with what lookingforwishes has said here. And of course her good sense and insightful comment only confirm our decision to make her a "senior model" on this forum, so listen up Guys..lol.

QUOTE (lookingforwishes @ December 02, 2010 04:31 am)
To me it has to do with what the forum is supposed to be for. My understanding at least is that the forum is here to address the issues models experience - for models to talk with one another and with members, and for members to talk about their experiences as well, but with the focus being on the effects of this job on society and especially on the models themselves. A lot of the focus seems to be on reducing the harmful effects, educating models, and possibly trying to get them out of cam work, or at least making sure they have a safe working environment where they are fairly compensated and they understand the dangers and risks involved, as well as trying to move towards a world in which camming is a free and open choice and not one that is coerced (economically or otherwise).

As with any situation in which outsiders want to help/contribute to an issue (the problems and pitfalls of camming and the ways in which models are harmed by them), in my opinion, it's impossible to actually do any good without centering the voices of the people most affected (models themselves). I personally see a shift away from focusing on members as good for what the site is supposed to do (at least in my understanding, which may well be totally off base). Not that members' input isn't important...but just as rich folks' opinions on poverty are not going to illustrate what it means to be a poor person and white folks' opinions about the experiences of people of color won't completely paint a full picture of what it's like to live as a person of color, members cannot and should not speak for or to the exclusion of models. That's what it means to center someone's voice.

In addition, it is not safe for a lot of models to post in public about certain things, which is why the models' forum exists and why we are encouraged to use it (at least in my understanding). Not to make members feel left out, but to protect models, many of whom live in areas where this occupation is undesirable or even dangerous.

That's not to say the experiences of members with the camming industry (and the sex industry as a whole, and with politics and economics in the areas we talk about) are not important. We talk a lot about members' experiences as consumers in the camming business and how the dynamics of the business affect everyone - members, models, studio owners, site owners, piraters, average joes on the street. But that at least in my understanding is not the primary focus of the forum, at least not to the point that we jeopardize the importance of the experiences of models or the safety of models who post here.

Personally, I think the forum does a good job of this on the whole, although I've seen certain discussions (and experienced some comments) that made me somewhat uncomfortable.


Two more comments. I don't think that either Delfina or Belea79 were driven away by members' attitudes or comments... Delfina left camming "because something better came along" in the form of a love affair with a man she met online. The surprising thing was that she remained active on this forum for almost a year and a half after she quit camming. Belea79 who was both a male model and Sweet October's partner in a Bucharest studio, stopped commenting some months after He stopped camming and their partnership had dissolved... Again the surprise was that he kept posting after he had severed his ties with the cam world.

As Gabby told us after she quit her studio, the usual pattern for Studio models is to cut contact with everyone they knew in the cam-world when they leave the industry.. The fact that we had model members who remained active long after they left says something about the quality of the friendships they had made with the members here. I could say much the same of model members like Froglover, Gabby, or Giggles.. All of whom have moved on from camming to make something new and different out of their lives, but kept in touch with us here.

I am sorry if ImDaBadMan feels that we don't leave enough space for members to talk about "the positive experiences" they have had taking a cam model into private session. But this is not exactly a club for "hobbyists" where they can rate the girls' performances or comment about who's the hottest model on a web-site. That's why there's the premium members lounge on MFC....or some special topics on the pirate forums such as "Where Are They Now?"

But there's always been plenty of room here for members to talk about their personal relationships with cam models that evolved out of their initial commercial encounters. We have encouraged the posting of these "Wanker tales" because they tell us a lot about the roots of the "market demand" that drives this industry - as well as what could happen when people stepped out of their assigned commercial roles and left behind the realm of "counterfeit emotions" to have real conversations.....Lots of surprises there - some awful but some quite magical..

Look at the original "Wanker's Tale" to see what I mean.
http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=142

And read over or our infamous "about Friendship" thread that Greensleeves started in May of 2006: http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=69


UL
P.S. ImDaBadMan..the link and a blurb about the other forum you like was already given to our Silver and Model Members last summer.. And there's some overlap in membership between our forum and hers.

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#15 [url]

Dec 2 10 2:39 PM

QUOTE (IamDaBadMan)
Being new to this forum, I have a different perspective on this issue. After reading more than a few posts, many of which contained links that I found to be interesting, I gathered that this site was not so much about cam modelling as it is about ...

1. Getting cam models to quit because they are being exploited
2. 'Paying members' should stop patronizing cam sites because we facilitate the exploitation
3. 'Paying members' are idiots because we're being taken advantagee of by cam models and studios.


QUOTE (IamDaBadMan)
Ever single one of these topics devolves into "Models are being exploited" and "Don't support the exploitation". The thing is that it seems to be only a few individuals who keep steering the conversations into that direction.

eg.
Oh, you wanted to talk about a good experience you had with a cam model? That's off-topic, let me tell you what's really going on. Cam models are actually taught how to hook you in so that you spend all your money on her. It's all a fantasy. No shit. I already knew that, but thanks for killing what could have been an otherwise interesting thread of people's positive experiences.

Every single thread on this site either starts off negative or becomes negative. 

My rants done. I'll get off my high horse now and go back to lurking mode.


QUOTE (IamDaBadMan)
My apologies if it appeared like I was advertising; I wasn't. I'm the type of person that will usually provide context and references to illustrate a point that I'm making.


QUOTE (IamDaBadMan)
As I originally said, I've read many of the posts on this site and found it to be quite informative. Referential links only added additional information to issues I am aware of. I was merely expounding upon the OPs comment with an additional POV.


At least to me, it seems like IamDaBadMan has been misunderstood, and his comments might be considered constructive criticism. Which I'm open to hearing.

Not all "Site Members" who understand and accept the reality, and choose to participate in the fantasy, really fit the group mentality of the MFC member lounge. And I don't believe he was suggesting we set up an area where members can chat about who's got the hottest ass, or which performer does the best free shows, etc. He was simply giving his impression of the forum as a new member, and trying to draw attention to issues here that tend to inhibit constructive forum participation.

I think there are many cases where the "commercial relationship" was mutually pleasing to both the member and the performer who went into it understanding that it's fantasy. WHATEVER that fantasy might have been. Even if it was just paying a pretty girl to talk to you.

IamDaBadMan... correct me if I'm wrong. And thank you for your comments.

Breeze

~ ~ AFFINITY ~ ~

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#16 [url]

Dec 2 10 3:51 PM

QUOTE
Two more comments. I don't think that either Delfina or Belea79 were driven away by members' attitudes or comments... Delfina left camming "because something better came along" in the form of a love affair with a man she met online. The surprising thing was that she remained active on this forum for almost a year and a half after she quit camming. Belea79 who was both a male model and Sweet October's partner in a Bucharest studio, stopped commenting some months after He stopped camming and their partnership had dissolved


Good news that they had objective reasons. Thx for clarifying.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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#17 [url]

Dec 2 10 8:34 PM

And I'm not sure this is helpful...but IAmDaBadMan, I was originally put off by a lot of the threads and responses to my own comments when I first joined the forums. I saw that you only recently registered an account and have barely posted at all. For me, once I got past that initial phase of misunderstanding, I began to feel more at home here and also to understand that we all have widely different views about this subject in a lot of ways, but we manage to agree to disagree and still have constructive discussions.

I'm just saying, maybe if you give it some time and contribute to the forums a bit more you might find that you are more welcome here than you think. For what it's worth.

la muerte viene siempre / si se pobre o rebelde / no sé cómo empezar / otro guerrillero! / más pobreza, más violencia /
estos son las consecuencias / no sé donde va para / otra guerrillera! / las mujeres en la lucha no pueden parar

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#18 [url]

Dec 3 10 5:11 AM

QUOTE (UncleLewis)
As Gabby told us after she quit her studio, the usual pattern for Studio models is to cut contact with everyone they knew in the cam-world when they leave the industry.. The fact that we had model members who remained active long after they left says something about the quality of the friendships they had made with the members here. I could say much the same of model members like Froglover, Gabby, or Giggles.. All of whom have moved on from camming to make something new and different out of their lives, but kept in touch with us here.


These are the positive experiences to which I refer.

QUOTE (UncleLewis)
I am sorry if ImDaBadMan feels that we don't leave enough space for members to talk about "the positive experiences" they have had taking a cam model into private session. But this is not exactly a club for "hobbyists" where they can rate the girls' performances or comment about who's the hottest model on a web-site. That's why there's the premium members lounge on MFC....or some special topics on the pirate forums such as "Where Are They Now?"


These aren't the positive experiences to which I was referring to. On this note, to truly understand any particular issue, one must be open to all manners of discourse regarding a given issue. Dismissing what one does not agree with or approve of only allows for one side of a story to be told. This does not benefit anybody who seeks to become more informed.

QUOTE (CoolBreeze)
At least to me, it seems like IamDaBadMan has been misunderstood, and his comments might be considered constructive criticism. Which I'm open to hearing.

Not all "Site Members" who understand and accept the reality, and choose to participate in the fantasy, really fit the group mentality of the MFC member lounge. And I don't believe he was suggesting we set up an area where members can chat about who's got the hottest ass, or which performer does the best free shows, etc. He was simply giving his impression of the forum as a new member, and trying to draw attention to issues here that tend to inhibit constructive forum participation.

I think there are many cases where the "commercial relationship" was mutually pleasing to both the member and the performer who went into it understanding that it's fantasy. WHATEVER that fantasy might have been. Even if it was just paying a pretty girl to talk to you.

IamDaBadMan... correct me if I'm wrong. And thank you for your comments.


This is exactly the point I was trying to make on both issues.

QUOTE (lookingforwishes)
maybe if you give it some time and contribute to the forums a bit more you might find that you are more welcome here than you think. For what it's worth.


I'm not that easy to get rid of. Ok, perhaps a moderator could ban my IP address, but even that's easy to get around. This particular forum seems to be right up my alley concerning the topics which I find interesting.

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tealoneal

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#20 [url]

Dec 3 10 8:09 AM

QUOTE (UncleLewis @ December 02, 2010 01:24 pm)
I largely agree with what lookingforwishes has said here. And of course her good sense and insightful comment only confirm our decision to make her a "senior model" on this forum, so listen up Guys..lol.

QUOTE (lookingforwishes @ December 02, 2010 04:31 am)
To me it has to do with what the forum is supposed to be for. My understanding at least is that the forum is here to address the issues models experience - for models to talk with one another and with members, and for members to talk about their experiences as well, but with the focus being on the effects of this job on society and especially on the models themselves. A lot of the focus seems to be on reducing the harmful effects, educating models, and possibly trying to get them out of cam work, or at least making sure they have a safe working environment where they are fairly compensated and they understand the dangers and risks involved, as well as trying to move towards a world in which camming is a free and open choice and not one that is coerced (economically or otherwise).

I didn't respond to LookingForWishes' post initially but since UL has highlighted it as something we should "listen up" to, I'd like to respond. The issue that I raised was the apparent disdain towards members around here. This post was a reiteration of your (collective) desire to make this forum all about the models. .

QUOTE
Not that members' input isn't important...but just as rich folks' opinions on poverty are not going to illustrate what it means to be a poor person and white folks' opinions about the experiences of people of color won't completely paint a full picture of what it's like to live as a person of color, members cannot and should not speak for or to the exclusion of models. That's what it means to center someone's voice.

How many members are talking about what it is like to be a model? Very few I think.

QUOTE
That's not to say the experiences of members with the camming industry (and the sex industry as a whole, and with politics and economics in the areas we talk about) are not important. We talk a lot about members' experiences as consumers in the camming business and how the dynamics of the business affect everyone - members, models, studio owners, site owners, piraters, average joes on the street. But that at least in my understanding is not the primary focus of the forum, at least not to the point that we jeopardize the importance of the experiences of models or the safety of models who post here.

This part of your post speaks directly to my unease. The forum is mostly for the models - it's been said dozens of times in this thread and many others. If you don't want members here then say it. Don't welcome us and then tell us that we moralize, blame, attack(camgirl); speak for models; or jeopardize model safety.

(Note: I do not think that your (lookingforwishes) post was offensive. I picked on it because UL highlighted it as insightful whereas I saw it as an opportunity to try to further press my own point of view. )

If, as I've said all along, the universe is — at any time — what you say it is ... then say! - James Burke
I miss Markland

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