#21 [url]

Jan 23 11 8:25 PM

And my three shits(oops, three cents)

"If it looks like shit, smells like shit, and tastes like shit, then most likely it is shit".

If you attempt the above, wash your hands face and mouth out very well, please.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#22 [url]

Jan 24 11 4:30 AM

This is not directed at anyone in particular, but it's a musing that came to me after reading noname's post especially...

Removing the stigma from prostitution and other forms of sex work does not necessarily equate to morally agreeing with sex work, nor does it equate to ignoring or downplaying the coercion and lack of free choice experienced by many sex workers. It does however further the aim of expanding resources for sex workers and try to counter some of the harms of sex work (where they exist) and to give sex workers more freedom of choice, power, and safety. You do not have to morally agree with prostitution or the choices of the prostitute to affirm that a prostitute is deserving of just as much respect and compassion and so on as a non-prostitute, and to want to work to change the conditions of sex work and sex workers. That is what I mean by removing the stigma. It's also why I think, despite disagreeing with abolitionism in general, that there are some abolitionists (the ones who have moved past moral disgust, pity, and needing to fulfill the role of "savior") who have actually done decent things for sex workers' rights.

Sort of like...if I morally disagreed with the act of abortion (I don't, but if I did), that does not mean I have to believe that everyone who gets an abortion is a bad person or should be stigmatized or should not be given resources and compassion. Many people who have abortions are also in situations of coerced choice.

And I do not mean pity here. I mean actual regard and acceptance for who we are as human beings and the complexities of choice and circumstance that have led us to this point and which shape our lives. Quite frankly, I don't care if you think my actions are moral. But I do care if you want to work with me to change oppressive circumstances, if that makes any sense - you don't necessarily have to agree morally to do that (some will, some won't), if you can look past whatever your moral hangups are and look past the urge to pity and actually move towards real honest compassion. And I think that while it is a very fine line and a difficult situation and usually people either stop at moral disgust or move a few steps past moral disgust and stop at pity. But if we can move past that...that is something that is fucking amazing.

There are other things that have been said re: the actual situation here and I need to respond to those but I am too tired so I will do that later, LOL! I wanted to try and articulate this before it fell out of my tired brain.

la muerte viene siempre / si se pobre o rebelde / no s cmo empezar / otro guerrillero! / ms pobreza, ms violencia /
estos son las consecuencias / no s donde va para / otra guerrillera! / las mujeres en la lucha no pueden parar

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#23 [url]

Jan 24 11 4:52 AM

QUOTE (lookingforwishes @ January 23, 2011 11:30 pm)
And I do not mean pity here. I mean actual regard and acceptance for who we are as human beings and the complexities of choice and circumstance that have led us to this point and which shape our lives. Quite frankly, I don't care if you think my actions are moral. But I do care if you want to work with me to change oppressive circumstances, if that makes any sense - you don't necessarily have to agree morally to do that (some will, some won't), if you can look past whatever your moral hangups are and look past the urge to pity and actually move towards real honest compassion. And I think that while it is a very fine line and a difficult situation and usually people either stop at moral disgust or move a few steps past moral disgust and stop at pity. But if we can move past that...that is something that is fucking amazing.

I'm here for exactly this.

Breeze

~ ~ AFFINITY ~ ~

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#24 [url]

Jan 24 11 5:12 AM

QUOTE (MissJane @ January 23, 2011 12:54 am)
Again harry, its a really grey area.  Yes money exchanging hands for sex is prostitution but almost everything in life costs money. when you buy a girl a drink in a bar- that cost money- you exchanged money for a drink and gave it to the girl. If she decides to go home with you did you just participate in prostitution? No. Its only prostitution if a deal is made in advance- you give me x and Ill have sex with you.



Its not really a grey area if its illegal. In your opinion it maybe grey but, in the world we live in its not and thats just the way it is.

QUOTE
With out being privy to the personal conversation between the two people- you dont know if thats really what went on.


according to other members of the site the member and the model had been talking about breaking the record for awhile. flash forward to this weekend model posts cryptic message abut taking a break and not knowing when she'll be back than showing up on cam with a guy.


QUOTE
if a sweet guy starts frequenting my chat and tips me alot and sends me gifts and helps me win a title with a cash prize attached I just may decide that I kinda like him. And maybe if he lives close to me and I dont find him repulsive then yeah maybe Ill go out with him one night and gasp as two consenting adults we have sex.


a question would you have sex with him on cam to get the record? knowing that all of the other members of the site who take you private, tip you and give you gifts will most likely find out? to me its bad for business but thats my opinion.


QUOTE
To me its not prostitution. Just a twisted form of courting a woman. Sending her gifts and money and love notes- just to get in her pants.


thats right thats what prostitution is to you but, to most it is what it is sex for money. personally i have no problem with it at all as long its done right and its legal where it happens.

QUOTE
Again I dont know the girl, I dont know the guy.

And you refering to her as a whore and how sad it is makes it seem like youre a little bit bitter. Perhaps you had a crush on the girl and held her up to high standard and are disappointed with her promiscuity.



oh no i'm not bitter just using accurate words to describe what she is. if I was bitter I would have outed the person or persons in question. Also no I don't have a crush on the girl in question she is very pretty but, lets just say I don't have a high opinion of her, in other words I don't like who she is as a person and I came to this conclusion before all this other bs went down.


Also if Onan says its true i'm inclined to believe him given all the evidence i've come up with on the situation. truthfully i'm more curious to see what the fallout of the situation is. most likely it'll be nothing considering the person in question status on the site and that the site has bent over backwards to please her before.

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#25 [url]

Jan 24 11 5:22 AM

QUOTE
Its not really a grey area if its illegal.


It's not illegal everywhere. In Switzerland there are brothels that belong to the State, and in otehr countries too. prostitution always existed everywhere, legal or not. Usually it's illegal where the taxes can be avoided.

And if it's illegal, it's her problem and risk.
If I'm not paying taxes for instance, and that's also illegal, an assumed risk.

QUOTE
a question would you have sex with him on cam to get the record?


there are many models who do couple shows with their boyfriends/husbands. Again I don't see anything wrong with that. The fact that clients who imagine that she's a single lonely girl,will probably be disapointed and a part of their fantasy is broken and replaced with another, that's a completely other thing.

And yeah, I would do shows with my bf on cam, but he doesnt want to And I don't think that if a married couple or people involved in a stabile relationship have sex on cam that it can be called prostitution. That's absurd. Most likely exhibitionism, or call it porn if u want.

If a man agreed to appear with her on cam probably he is not a client who paid for sexual services - most of them dont like to be seen.

The problem appears when the members imagine that the models only live to be on cam for them and dont have a life of their own, and when they appear with a man, it's the thought " oh, I thought you are single, I thought you are untouchable, I thought you were all mine, or there only for solo shows, thinking about me and nobody else". Is that what really bothers you?


CG

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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#26 [url]

Jan 24 11 5:23 AM

I am curious after reading your post looking...

You write this:

QUOTE
Quite frankly, I don't care if you think my actions are moral. But I do care if you want to work with me to change oppressive circumstances, if that makes any sense


Are you writing about only the oppressive conditions for only people who choose or do not have a choice about choosing sex work?

I can sympathize and empathize with you and those in the sex industry, but then one has to ask themselves, what were the conditions or circumstances that created the situations prior to anyone entering into a job in the field of sex.

One could argue, that why just sex workers only who need to be helped under the oppressive conditions you are pointing out here. Could it be said that perhaps it is other types of life conditions and circumstances that are just as oppressive for people, any people as well?

Could we say that they are in need as well or that those other oppressive conditions or situations may also lead a person to enter the sex worker job as well?

Oppressive behaviors and actions are not just predicated to just sex work. What about slave labor, in sweat shops for example?

But I do understand your concerns towards the stigma of it all.

Perhaps understanding the fight for freeing slaves, anyone who has been enslaved and eliminating the oppressive environments that created an oppression of people. Or people who are trapped in poverty, that creates a situation so desperate that sex work is chosen.

Stigmas, I agree need to be changed by teaching others how to respect people for whom they are, and understanding of the reasons people may or may not choose a path or a profession.

Working towards a common mutual respect for anyone as an individual and a human being would most likely eliminate the oppressive behavior of others and as well eliminate the stigmas and stereotyping and judgements of all people towards others.

Maybe this forum can be that conduit as well as other things as well for those who find it.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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onan

Chatter Box !

Posts: 85

#27 [url]

Jan 24 11 5:44 AM

QUOTE (harryMcdowell @ January 24, 2011 05:12 am)
Also if Onan says its true i'm inclined to believe him given all the evidence i've come up with on the situation.  truthfully i'm more curious to see what the fallout of the situation is. most likely it'll be nothing considering the person in question status on the site and that the site has bent over backwards to please her before.



Nice to be taken at one's word. However, there's also concrete proof floating around now. Some anonymous person appears to have put together a demotivational poster containing a collage of action shots from the private show, and has been passing it around the site.

As for fallout, I'm afraid this photo collage was apparently picked up by a few concerned patrons and emailed to over 50 different models and admin/staff, so I think you'll definitely see something come out of it. Monday morning will not be a fun one for the staff this week.

onan

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#28 [url]

Jan 24 11 5:56 AM

QUOTE (camgirl @ January 24, 2011 05:22 am)


it's not illegal everywhere. In Switzerland there are brothels that belong to the State, and in otehr countries too. prostitution always existed everywhere, legal or not. Usually it's illegal where the taxes can be skipped.

And if it's illegal, it's her problem and risk.
If im not paying taxes for instance, and that's also illegal, an assumed thing.



its illegal where she did it but, besides that point I don't have a problem with prostitution at all human beings have to have sex we are animals after all and and like most other animals that don't reproduce asexually we have to have sex because its in our dna to want to reproduce. I'm curious do you know how many places in the world where prostution is legal? not very many i bet.

QUOTE



there are many models who do couple shows with their boyfriends/husbands. Again i don't see anything wrong with that. The fact that clients that imagines she's a single lonely girl will probably be disapointed and a part of their fantasy is broken and replaced with another, that's a completely other thing.


lol the situation is what it is they did what they did now they have to live with the consequences and that includes people like us passing judgement on them whether it maybe right or wrong its the situation they created for themselves.


QUOTE


And yeah, I would do shows with my bf on cam, but  he doesnt want    And I don't think that if a married couple ot involved in a stabile relationship have sex on cam can be called prostitution, it's absurd. Most likely exhibitionists.



in my opinion smart decision by your bf lol. don't ever get on cam unless your truly comfortable with it and know all the consequences of what it entails.

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#29 [url]

Jan 24 11 6:01 AM

QUOTE
they have to live with the consequences and that includes people like us passing judgement on them


I'm pretty sure after a while most models can "live" with your judgement on them ( and that's a choice), anyway,and they live just fine. Starting to not care about what insegnificant persons think about you it's part of freedom and growing.
And it's not about smart or stupid. Those who do it assumes and are probably more wise from many point of view than the people who cant live without judging them

I have a friend that used to work on cam with her husband and said was the most beautiful period of her life. What others say... it's much less important than the personal and subjective happiness, for persons with strong personalities at least.

Question, how much money do you think those 2 earned for the next exotic holiday together, while you were so concerned with judging them?

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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#30 [url]

Jan 24 11 6:20 AM

OMG....

Am I watching a sex soap opera drama here now?

Member, pay for sex, record?(is that a contest for winning the top model spot or winning a cash amount), to bf/gf cam work to how the entire site will view it all?

Seems like people on that site, want to be the center of attention, not only there, but to the entire internet as well and the world.

Wow, congratulations on creating a great premise for a new soap opera....

AS THE CAM TURNS

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#31 [url]

Jan 24 11 6:23 AM

QUOTE (onan @ January 24, 2011 05:44 am)

Nice to be taken at one's word. However, there's also concrete proof floating around now. Some anonymous person appears to have put together a demotivational poster containing a collage of action shots from the private show, and has been passing it around the site.




that anonymous person wouldn't happen to be you would it lol? I know she was having sex with the guy I saw it with my own eyes both times she did it. I just don't know if it was a member or not.

QUOTE
As for fallout, I'm afraid this photo collage was apparently picked up by a few concerned patrons and emailed to over 50 different models and admin/staff, so I think you'll definitely see something come out of it. Monday morning will not be a fun one for the staff this week.


I wonder whats gonna happen? now i'm interested. I still say they do nothing shes one of their top girls and at this point they can't afford to lose her when all the other sites keep poaching their girls. hell I think she could have gotten gang banged by a bunch of members and still get away with it. It seems like she was prepared to leave anyway I just wish she would have shown better action shots if she was gonna go out like that. I'd also like to see this photo collage lol. can you point me in the direction of the photo collage heres one of my random emails I keep for situations like this since I can't pm you here

no emails in posts.. camgirl

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#32 [url]

Jan 24 11 6:27 AM

Content Removed by Coolbreeze

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#33 [url]

Jan 24 11 6:31 AM


QUOTE
? I know she was having sex with the guy I saw it with my own eyes both times she did it. I just don't know if it was a member or not.


So you only assumed he is a client and not her boyfriend. Why that? is the only way u can imagine a relationship, by paying a woman to have sex with you or the only way u think a model have relationships? BTw, porn is legal almost everywhere (porn pics, movies, on cam) If she's solo and playing with toys is porn just like when she's with a man on cam.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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#35 [url]

Jan 24 11 6:37 AM

QUOTE (camgirl @ January 24, 2011 01:31 am)
QUOTE
? I know she was having sex with the guy I saw it with my own eyes both times she did it. I just don't know if it was a member or not.


So you only assumed he is a client and not her boyfriend. Why that? is the only way u can imagine a relationship, by paying a woman to have sex with you or the only way u think a model have relationships? BTw, porn is legal almost everywhere (porn pics, movies, on cam) If she's solo and playing with toys is porn just like when she's with a man on cam.

That's right. He said he didn't know. And was looking for confirmation.

Breeze

~ ~ AFFINITY ~ ~

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#36 [url]

Jan 24 11 6:40 AM

QUOTE (camgirl @ January 24, 2011 06:01 am)


I'm pretty sure after a while most models can "live" with your judgement on them ( and that's a choice), anyway,and they live just fine. Starting to not care about what insegnificant persons think about you it's part of freedom and growing.
And it's not about smart or stupid. Those who do it assumes and are probably more wise from many point of view than the people who cant live without judging them




Really its apart of being human people pass judgement on other people all the time its just apart of our society. I don't like it personally but it is what it is. I pass judgement on people myself like I did with the cam girl. I don't like it when I pass judgement on people but, I make mistakes and I live with the consequences of it. I have no problem with cam models at all unless they offend me or are just shitty human beings. I don't see why you think i do.

QUOTE

I have a friend that used to work on cam with her husband and  said was the most beautiful period of her life. What others say... it's  much less important than the personal and subjective happiness, for persons with strong personalities at least.



yes but, does your friend realize that theirs probably copies of her work floating around on the internet or on someones hardrive somewhere? I'm sure its beautiful right now but what about the future when she has kids and the cam work in question gets into her kids hands that beautiful period just became a nightmare lol. don't mind mind me though i'm a pessimistic person and quite an asshole or at least that what my family tells me.



QUOTE
Question, how much money do you think those 2 earned for the next exotic holiday together, while you were so concerned  with judging them? 



actually none probably he paid for the private and she probably is gonna lose some money so they are probably in the hole this weekend but, I bet they had a great time and they'll look back on it as the most beautiful period of their lives.

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#37 [url]

Jan 24 11 7:09 AM

QUOTE (camgirl @ January 24, 2011 06:31 am)


So you only assumed he is a client and not her boyfriend. Why that? is the only way u can imagine a relationship, by paying a woman to have sex with you or the only way u think a model have relationships? BTw, porn is legal almost everywhere (porn pics, movies, on cam) If she's solo and playing with toys is porn just like when she's with a man on cam.




no I was in the room I was gonna voyuer one of her shows if you'd like to know but, than someone started saying something about her doing a member on cam to break the record so being the nosey asshole that I am I went ahead and voyuered the show.
So after the show is over the dude is still out their talking i'm like its probably her boyfriend but, the guy keeps insisting its a member i'm defending her even though I don't really like her because i thought it was messed up what he was doing. so flash forward to the next day rumors out there and I go back to the room more people are talking about it than she comes out and talks to the people in the room even though she's supposedly in a private show and talks to us. someone flat out asked her if she was doing a member on cam she didn't deny it at all what she said was talk is cheap.
theirs also evidence of her flying from her home in texas to miami where she was doing the show even though she said she was taking a break. the site probably has all the evidence they need if the models cam ip address and the members ip address were the same.


also why are you attacking me are you gonna pass judgment on me because I like to watch cam shows? I'm one of the dumb people who actually support the industry with their hard earned money. as for models having relationships i'm pretty sure a good percentage well probably 90 percent or more of the women who go into the cam business either have a boyfriend or are married but, thats just from my experience. the people who work in the cam industry are human too and i don't think any less of them than i think of my own mother. this whole situation has nothing to do with moral choices the person in question broke rules and did something that is most likely illegal and their will probably be consequences for her whether I think their will be or not and if their are they won't be positive for anyone involved.

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#38 [url]

Jan 24 11 7:13 AM

QUOTE
yes but, does your friend realize that theirs probably copies of her work floating around on the internet or on someones hardrive somewhere?


Yes, of course she does. She firstly wanted to do HQ porn movies with her husband, but on cam is more profitable. Problem? She posed naked for a magazine too.

QUOTE
I'm sure its beautiful right now but what about the future when she has kids and the cam work in question gets into her kids hands that beautiful period just became a nightmare lol


Now u are even judging the opinion about kids of other people. if you are prude, dont make kids, u dont know when they sneak in your bedroom. there are many persons, even celebrities that posed naked and now they have kids. Personally I know my kids will be very open minded and that's not a nightmare at all.

QUOTE
the site probably has all the evidence they need if the models cam ip address and the members ip address were the same.


the site is not the police and dont stalk models like some members do, they have better things to do. if a model breaks the rules of the site she'll probably be fined, if the site is MFC, she wont.
Not denying means she doenst care, not a confirmation. I'm prety sure she doesnt feel she needs to report you who she sleeps or not. And maybe she visited her boyfriend in another town and do shows together. Again, i doubt a member not interested about a porn career will appear on cam just for her to earn more money, doenst make sense. And she is right that talk is cheap and is none of other's business her personal life.

QUOTE
lso why are you attacking me are you gonna pass judgment on me because I like to watch cam shows?


I dont think anybody judged u for watching shows, but for judging the workers about what they do /or not for money. Watch the show, enjoy, or if u dont like, skip to the next model. Simple.

you probably dont know, but in shows is a lot of role play, even if it's a couple on cam. When the member come in and has a 3some fantasy they might talk like it's happening while in fact it's nothing of that kind.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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#39 [url]

Jan 24 11 8:02 AM

QUOTE (camgirl @ January 24, 2011 07:13 am)
QUOTE
yes but, does your friend realize that theirs probably copies of her work floating around on the internet or on someones hardrive somewhere?




nope no problem I was just hoping she knew all the risks because most people who enter this industry don't.

QUOTE


Now u are even judging the opinion about kids of other people. if you are prude, dont make kids, u dont know when they sneak in your bedroom. there are many persons, even celebrities that posed naked and now they have kids. Personally I know my kids will be very open minded and that's not a nightmare at all.



see a problem I have is I tend to see other things people don't or I scrutinize decisions very intently. I'm pretty sure no kid wants to see their parents having sex just not cool. also thats cool if your kids will be open minded but, they will have friends and teachers that could not be as open minded with stuff like that. see everything we do in life has consequence even getting up in the morning or deciding to step left instead or going right.

QUOTE

the site is  not the police and dont stalk models like some members do, they have better things to do. if a model breaks the rules of the site she'll probably be fined, if the site is MFC, she wont


I never said anything about police and no way did I say the site would turn her in. Ahhh MFC the wild west of cam sites lol that place is completely insane. if it was mfc I was talking about it wouldn't even be an issue that site is basically if you make money there are no rules.

QUOTE

I dont think anybody judged u for watching shows, but for judging the workers about what they do /or not for money. Watch the show, enjoy, or if u dont like, skip to the next model. Simple.

you probably dont know, but in shows is a lot of role play, even if it's a couple on cam. When the member come in and has a 3some fantasy they might talk like it's happening while in fact it's nothing of that kind.



there was no faking of anything their is enough evidence out their now pointing to the rumor as being likely true. You wanna know why I originally thought the rumor was sad a she didn't have to do what she did because their were legal ways to go about doing the guy on cam. b it messes with the site and I know the site doesn't wanna have to fine or possibly fire one of their top girls and c shes hot thats about it.

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#40 [url]

Jan 24 11 8:11 AM

it's not the fact u see things and consequences that others dont, it's the way u react on them. Some make a drama if the teacher finds that posed nude (and sounds like they killed humans), others dont care about what others say because are self confident anyway. That's the difference, and it's a big one.

it's almost amusing to think about teachers, who are technically employed by the parents, they eat a bread because of them and to think if are open minded or not. If they are not, means are not good teacher, at least not when it comes to personal development.

And ive seen my parents having sex ( though the key hole). It was educative I start to think that this taboo subject about parents ( like we all want to think we appeared some other way) it's mostly in USA - appearing also in teen movies like a horror.. omg, dont wanna think about my parents having sex. Really, I dont see what's the big deal.

I'm pretty sure there are other things kids would hate: having their parents working 10 hours/day, not having time for anything, or not having money, that's a real drama, not that their parents had/have sex. Many who work in this industry solved those problems.


Being sure that all the people would react like you it just mean u cant accept there are people who think different than you.

And another thing is sure: concerning too much about the future, makes you not live in present, and the present is all we have About what other said ... they may have good or bad opinion, changed, dont matter how perfect u want to be in others eyes - people like to tlak shit about others, dont matter if they work on cam or not. And in the end, u only have yourself, being to live or pay your bills - there's none of those the others will do for you.
If you havent figured that out, you will, dont matter how much u think about consequences and about being perfect.

CG

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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