#101 [url]

Jan 27 11 10:30 PM

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How many times does a friend of mine tell me daily about all these members seeking personal, one on one, contact?


Many are looking for that even without prostitutes on cam. They imagine things they want and they think that " a man has the duty to ask"

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If within the near future the job duties expected of a camgirl would require a model to meet a member who won some marketing contest via a website ( if it should become commonplace), then would they still consider camming as a job?


That won't happen for many reasons. A member met in person is a member lost for virtual shows aka lost money for the website.

Instead I know close persons who wanted "real, respectable" job (but paioud only 400$/month) , in media and the boss pointed out to her that if she doesn't sleep with him, she cant work there. All the female employees had done it there. And it's not cam work. I think some of you found about some phenomena only from cam work. It more spread out than you think, and it's present in each business what she coulf choose.
There are prostitutes that do that anyway, but who entered into the cam world and started to have better clients - for them it's just a plhace to do their old job. Again, not my pussy, not my business.


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maybe there will be a section on cam site where u can get a chance to meet the model for a date.....


CC and AW have ad it since more than 10 years.

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But perhaps, they do go home with one or two sometimes as was pointed out in a another thread here on CGN.


Most strippers DON'T go home with the clients. It's a ratio of 1 out of 10.

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Or is there more to be expected when these same women can not draw in the customers and keep them there when their bosses are threatening them to produce more.


I don't think it's about any threat. If they are not good in cam job, probably they would be put on free and hire others. A studio always advertises for new models, every day. From 100 models, 30 leave every month, so that entire scenario I dont think it's for most studios. There are also studio owners concerned that some models will start to date members and not put the same effort into their cam job.

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Imagine that you really don't want to cross that line and then what are your options?


The line has been crossed but some, since the beginning of video chat. Just because some of you just found out about it, it doesn't mean it's new. I'm still making money.

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I understand your point here, looking, but many of the non professional women were never experienced pornstars, nor expect to be one, nor do they accept or consider the work pornographic in nature


That's called naivete. If you don't expect to be porn star, don't get fully naked. Simple
Though when you say porn star some are thinking only about those poor women who have 2 to 4 men coming inside of them, and of course, there are different levels. Solo girl masturbating it is porn work too, even if you don't have to be experienced porn star for that.
Also in porn stars jobs, there are fans who wants to date a specific porn star and write fan email " I have a big cock, pls meet me". They know nothing about this field, they are closed in their own desires.

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I surmise there are more of them from other countries than from more developed richer countries the decision to cross a boundary or boundaries is something quite a few do not wish, want, nor expect to deal with or perform.


It's exactly the opposite. In cam work most work and live in more poor countries and I wouldn't say most cross that boundary. Let's not forget that many countries and cities have a very traditional points of view and education, so getting naked on cam there is a little too much already for most women. And I think the models who work on cam and meet clients are exceptions ( and I know plenty cam models that never did and never will)

Instead in the UK where prostitution is legal, it is been advertised on cam website for a long while now and most are locals.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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#102 [url]

Jan 28 11 12:36 AM

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That won't happen for many reasons. A member met in person is a member lost for virtual shows aka lost money for the website.


Are you sure? I am using MFC as an example here now, and quite a few models who have met a member are still working on cam, and the members are still coming.

Maybe they want to win that contest to win again a meeting by spending on them at the models cam chat site so they can again win and meet in person.

But of course a member that wants to meet a model for some romantic purpose may already be lost to paying for the shows, because they can get it for free now with a real personal relationship.

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Instead I know close persons who wanted "real, respectable" job (but payed only 400$/month) , in media and the boss pointed her out that if she doesnt sleep with him, she cant work there. All the female employees done it there. And it's not cam work. I think some of you found about some phenomenas only from cam work. It more spread than you think, and it's each business what she choose.
There are prostitutes that do that anyway, but entered in cam world and started to have better clients - for them it's just a land for their old job. Again, not my pussy, not my business.


Of course I know this goes on, perhaps that is another aspect that makes some women find the real respectable work has been tainted and is corrupted and controlled by people who feel the need to force or possibly blackmail and exploit a woman's weakness in the real world.

Perhaps, the rich and powerful are taking advantage of the circumstances. I have a belief reading you , that what I described above is commonplace in your country.

It does occur in other places and countries as well, but I suppose that is why there are laws to prosecute bosses from sexual harassment and other forms of harassment.

For those women who sell themselves out or their self respect are doing nothing for themselves and others in the same predicaments but continue to allow others to push their power, and control over others.



Isn't that a sad thing when that occurs anywhere?

I have a theory that some of those same bosses may be the same people who visit the cam sites seeking to believe they have control over women that work in the cam site, but we both know who has the ultimate control. Power of the pussy as you say.

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CC and AW have it since more than 10 years.


Yep, under the escort options. So it is just another form of prostitution.

But my point is about the girls who do not want it to encroach on their boundaries. Black Panther spoke how much she dislikes it. You said you dislike the members thinking that they can meet you. Others here and elsewhere have said they are annoyed with it.

Have you seen the incidence of members asking for those personal face to face meetings, more frequently than previously?



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Most strippers DON'T go home with the clients. It's a ratio of 1 from 10.


I think you are wrong. In fact I believe you posted an article or was it Uncle about what strippers do after their work. I forgot the name of those types. The strippers who look for men to go home with.

In fact I know quite a few men who specifically go to strip clubs in the hopes of taking home one of them to their rooms or homes for a little more personal fun time. I have seen it. I know men personally who have done it. Perhaps, Romania has not caught up to the USA yet in that respect.

Now there is another parallel that may be occurring in the industry of camming too.



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I don't think it's about any threat. If they are not good in cam job, probably they would be put on free and hire others. A studio always advertises for new models, every day. From 100 models, 30 leave every month, so that entire scenario I dont think it's for most studios. There are also studio owners concerned that some models start to date members and not put the same effort in cam job.


Concerned does not mean they can stop a focused person or individuals. I am speaking about how members are increasingly looking to hook up with any cam model but am more worried about the women who are trying to avoid it. Or if it reaches a tipping point that those models just will get frustrated, annoyed and just quit the job altogether. But yes, I know your going to come up with an alternate way of working around that scenario.

As for the independent models, well they can do whatever they want. Raffles contests etc etc... meetings dinner prostitution. The point is not what you are avoiding but what all the other models who could care squat about how you work and do your job. Where there are probably more independents than studio models who could choose to change the very ethical approach you and other models maintain.

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The line has been crossed but some, since the beginning of video chat. Just because some of you just found out, it doenst mean it's new. I'm still making money.


Yep, I know that, do others know that? Ofc you are still making money. But looking at what once was in the past, did you really have to work so many multiple websites in a shift back in the day? Think about that. Or did you complain or notice as many member seeking services away from your work, back in time?


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That's called naivety. If you dont expect to be porn star, don't get fully naked. Simple 
Though when you say porn star some are thinking only about those poor women with 2-4 men inside of them, and of course, there are different levels. Solo girl masturbating it is porn work too, even you dont have to be experienced porn star for that.
Also in porn stars jobs, there are fans who wants to date a specific porn star and write fan email " I have a big cock, pls meet me". They know nothing about this field, they are closed in their own desires.


Once again, I know that. I believe you are talking about the naivety of the model and not me. Uncle mentioned that earlier in this thread regarding the meet your fav porn star and have a romp with them as well.

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It's exactly the opposite. In cam work most work and live in more poor countries and I woudlnt say most cross that boundary. Let's not forget that many countries and cities have a very traditional way of view and education, so getting naked on cam there is a little too much already for most. And I think the models who work on cam and meet clients are exceptions ( and I know plenty cam models that never did and never will)
Instead in UK where prostitution is legal, it is advertised on cam website since a long while and most are locals.


I think you misunderstood how I meant it. Well then read some of the members that have met or plan on meeting some cam models who posted on CGN. Or a prime example of someone or a few I knew in the past, all from poorer countries. Perhaps they were not looking to prostitute themselves.

I really think you might be a little naive in this last paragraph, with all due respect. With the advent of more and more western originated cam models joining the daily ranks of Eastern euro and south american models, that they are going to squeeze the poorer girls a bit more out of the spotlight.

These new arrivals are strippers and porn stars, who are changing the working conditions. The decline in the economies of those well to do countries, are making cam work more of a choice for them and with that they bring a new way of conducting their business.

Now I do not claim to be an expert nor know every facet of it all, but based on pure observance in an unbiased view, I see it occurring. My friend sees it occurring even on the site that has the escort section on another cam site.

Remember what I wrote earlier, why would a member wish to fly 1500 miles to meet a prostitute when they can get a nice woman and a great trip with other benefits from a non professional.

camgirlnotes/bq.gif

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#103 [url]

Jan 28 11 1:23 AM

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, but I suppose that is why there are laws to prosecute bosses from sexual harassment and other forms of harassment.


I havent mentioned harassment of force. There are laws here for that, too. But harassment is understood when force is involved, not the proposal itself. It's hard to consider and proof harassment a proposal like " take it or leave it" from the first interview, no finger touched. It's the person who decide to do and and obtain the job or not. So in that case, it's a form of prostitution by their own choice, not because are blackmailed or forced or harassed.

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I think you are wrong


I'm not, because I know from the inside not read from articles. Of course, i was refering to european and usa clubs, not thailand. I have many friends that work as strippers and I know them very well, also they told me about their work, club's atmosphere, other strippers. It is known that any club has a stripper that is prostitute and the most guys looking for that usually go to that one. ( of course the man has "the duty" to try if he likes another more, eventually tempt her with higher $) But is not generalized.
I also know one who is banking and earn more than a prostitute from dances and drinks %, because she speculate exactly the hard to get and "see but not touch" or "seduce me more", or in love customers and that side of man of making efforts for what eventually can get.
It's a more successful recipe than sex for money. It's part of the stripper's proud when a guy spent all his money from the card just to see her getting naked.
Getting laid for money is easy, making money from conversation, seduction and being naked takes more and earnings are higher.
I also know strippers who fall in love with a client and started to date like any normal couple without him being a sugar daddy or paying her for date.And then all the stereotypes should fall. Because in a real loving relationship shouldnt put on table your fortune and say " I own an apartment, you should get one too, to be equals" In any couple one might bring more money and put them at common. It's easy for guys who have a completely day job and friends to say "hey, dont go out with a client". I know strippers and cam girls (not many tho) who are single and the guys from "work place" are the only guys they talk with, especially if they work a lot and have no other life besides work, eat n sleep.
And should should they say in that case to correspond to "ethics": " i love you but we can't be together because you were my client" ? Whouldnt that be sad too?

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In fact I know quite a few men who specifically go to strip clubs in the hopes of taking home one of them to their rooms or homes for a little more personal fun time


Of course they are, and in many cases they leave like after a cam show .. with hope, no girl home and without money

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but am more worried about the women who are trying to avoid it.


well, it's not like the member is present in their rooms phisically. A simple "no", "get lost" etc.. is enough, or the using of kick/ban button. Easy.

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Uncle mentioned that earlier in this thread regarding the meet your fav porn star and have a romp with them as well.


And everybody has a price, don't matter if is about porn stars, can be as well secretary or whatever what. Offer a girl a million $ in advance and I'm pretty sure it's possible.
Perhaps the porn stars have high expectations. But if a prostitute used to do it for 300$ and she stars working on cam where a client offers her 3000$, for sure she will think ' why not? at least now it's worth it".

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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BlackPanther

Very Talkative

Posts: 42

#104 [url]

Jan 28 11 3:42 AM

Finally I've finished reading all posts

I will respond to your questions Trainer.

If within the near future the job duties expected of a camgirl would require a model to meet a member who won some marketing contest via a website ( if it should become commonplace), then would they still consider camming as a job?

Yeah, why not? But the name will be changed later to ... prostitution. With this, all sites will be kinda "whore houses" online. You will be able to choose your girl in the same way like you're choosing some book on Amazon.

How do you feel about meeting clients?


As some of you know already, for me, meeting clients = clearly NO. Why should I meet one, even if he never asked me for a show? Clearly, as a camgirl, I'm on sites for a reason : MONEY. And a member is there for a reason too : PLEASURE. Simple, I cannot mix my "job" with their pleasure. For most of them I'm just a piece of meat, a "virtual night prostitute" - as one told me - and for me, most of them are just (uhm).

I've spoken a lot of with a few guys in my entire camgirl period and two of them had met at least one model. One of them even had a relationship with a camgirl, but it ended as fast as it started.

Many cheap asses keep telling me on the sites that they're coming in Romania to fuck another camgirl . Geez!!! But, I think somewhere there is a piece of the truth in all these stories about "fucking Tomanians" no?

How do you feel about models that do incorporate the act of prostitution into the cam world?

I think they should take their best outfits on them and go on the street or sign a contract with an escort agency. Hum, or maybe go for a stripper job
I'm not saying now that cam world is all sugar and a decent working field. But actual prostitution? That's just too much for me. I'm not blaming prostitutes, it's their choice, their bodies and so on.


As you were saying Trainer, cam world changed a lot of and in a quiet short period of time. In 2007 I was making all my money on xxxpanded (and hell they pay so baaad). In 2010 a lot of girls are online on more than 5 sites in the same time. A model can make the same amount of money as in the past, but by working more. Members have changed a lot. They have a lot of requests, use a lot of rude words and are all in a hurry. That's why I think that I'm just a piece of meat for most of them. It's also true that cam girls have changed the members. And that all this meeting face to face stuff was encouraged by cam girls as well. In future, if the sites don't make a clean-up of the models on line, I think all this virtual sex will become much more dangerous for members, while a genital infection from an ordinary prostitute will seem like a joke.

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BlackPanther

Very Talkative

Posts: 42

#105 [url]

Jan 28 11 3:50 AM

I forgot Harry

Concerning all this story... well, if she choose to fuck with a member in exchange for money... well, clearly that's prostitution for me also. But, it's her body and she can do whatever she wants with it. I know that some of you, members like to talk a lot of about models experiences and so on. It's a hot subject

Anyway, I think that if she was doing it with a member, the site would noticed it and take a position on it. So, nothing is true until you're seeing it with your own eyes.

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#106 [url]

Jan 28 11 6:45 AM

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Now i really dont believe nor do I think anyone here thinks facile is a hacker or a stalker or means any harm. Its just an example of how people pay more attention to details then you might think, and if someone so desires its easy to gather up information about a model if the model is not extremely vigilant on what they say, do, post or show on cam..


Must troll all cam sites looking for a camgirl who smokes alot and talks on blackberry.. quite possible with a bong next to bed... cause we all know that MJ really means ...mary jane)) . me a stalker or hacker... i cant be stuffed using spell check most of the time..
Yeah i pay attention to some details here
Back to topic.....

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And everybody has a price, don't matter if is about porn stars, can be as well secretary or whatever what. Offer a girl a million $ in advance and I'm pretty sure it's possible.
Perhaps the porn stars have high expectations. But if a prostitute used to do it for 300$ and she stars working on cam where a client offers her 3000$, for sure she will think ' why not? at least now it's worth it".



Exactly!!!.. as i had said along time ago... everyone has a price.... well not everyone, because they value some things more than money. but people who work in the sex industry generally have a price to go that next step.

Money is all relative)) the prostitute who worked for 300, already made a decision to be worthwhile to provide the service at that price.....

As in any service industry there will always be different standards and price structures,. From your $1.50 per minute price to the $6.00 p/m cam girl. From your street walker hooker to the Top Shelf prostitute ... each has their own social/ demographic cliental and dental plan

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Getting laid for money is easy, making money from conversation, seduction and being naked takes more and earnings are higher



Have to agree with .... getting laid for money is easy compared to how a top model operates with seduction. .... but it comes down to how much your willing to get laid for.... and what market you operate in

When i showed the girls in the house the earning of models on LJ, they said they wouldt waste their time sitting in fount of a pc all day.....


Although having sex for money and cam work have each their own inherent dangers dealing with deranged clinets


Back to topic...

Sure some cam girl will market them selfs for meetings, but i dont imagine the majority of camgirls around the world would be willing to cross the line any time soon. As models here have posted, they have no desire to meet clients ever. They have , can acquire supplementary income from members in other ways... gifts, smokes etc..... although i suppose camgirl is steel at just under a million)))


Now, the members who desire metitng their fav cam girl for sex, what happens if she is a starfish in the bedroom?? are you going to ask for a charge back cause she was a lousy lay??)))

then the down side for the girls who meet members for sex is, they will be rated on their proformance in bed back at the web site......which is kinda unfair , cause someties its the guys who dont preform the job their required to do.........

The reverse side also has a reverse side

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#107 [url]

Jan 28 11 11:03 AM

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When i showed the girls in the house the earning of models on LJ, they said they wouldt waste their time sitting in fount of a pc all day....


It depends on who's earnings you compare with whom's. There are models who earn over 10.000 $/month (not most, of course) and strippers who earn double that. I'm pretty sure most of the prostitutes don't earn as much as a top cam girl, but more than that,. I think most of them earn under what an average cam girl earns.

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Exactly!!!.. as i had said along time ago... everyone has a price.... well not everyone, because they value some things more than money. but people who work in the sex industry generally have a price to go that next step.


If it comes to real high price, it has nothing to do with working in an adult field or not and also it has nothing to do with valuing some other things than money. I don't know if you can comprehend my opinion about that.

I am sure most don't want money for the paper itself but for the things they can do/buy with that. A high amount might mean not working for rest of their lives, aka more time to take care of things that are indeed more valuable than money. In this world you need money including for doing good. So if you think that an employee who works 10 hours/day for a small amount and has no time for other things, but instead wouldn't work in an adult field just because she has misconceptions, don't think that she values the money less, and other things more. On the contrary, there are 10 hours per day taken from his life and dedicated to money. And the time is one of the most precious things we give as in exchange for an certain amount of $ (smaller or bigger) Imagine how it would be at the end of your life to have few more days to live and do what you want instead of working to pay bills. What about a few years more. Wouldn't u do anything for that in that moment?

But that working schedule, or better said that life style, has become so wide-spread that people think it's normal to invest time in job 10 hours/day then go to sleep for the next day to start it all over again. "Everybody has to have a job, if not, they should get one. Immediately! To fit into working system"

If as a cam girl I earn in 4 hours what others earn in a week, and for the rest of my week, I can focus completely on other things than earning money ( because almost every job is about that. I am not talking about humanitarian jobs, but working for a corporation surely is for money. Or social status etc, but not real values) It's exactly the opposite.

So coming to the fact that everybody has a price, I'm pretty sure everybody would think at least twice if given a choice of an hour that can change their life and that of their children and grandchildren, exactly in the sense of not thinking about working hard for money but for being concerned about more valuable things.


CG

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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#108 [url]

Jan 28 11 11:36 AM

Wow, thanks for your replies all of you.

Camgirl sometimes, I think you base your replies using your environment(country, chat room) as the center point and reference point.

What happens, for instance in your chat room or in your country is not representative of what all cam models adhere to or approach things and do everywhere. I have much respect for your knowledge and experience, but I feel what Black Panther has stated is increasing and is what I am trying to point out here.

I asked my friend this question, which you neglected to answer:

Do you see more and more of your clients looking and/or asking to meet these days than in the past? She simply said yes. She said she had two privates, just tonight, and one member said they are visiting Romania and if she would like to meet him. Does not even ask for nudity and still wants to meet with her. Another one, continually asks to meet as well. One of them has been there before, and is planning on visiting again, irregardless of her strong no's to him.

See what your other colleagues are creating for you to deal with girls?

Of course, in your view, everyone has a price, well dear woman, many do not. Many people may also sell themselves out not even for money, these days.

It is not everyone. Not all people can be bought for some price or seek to obtain some level at some cost or at any cost. I think we are learning how to sell ourselves out too easy these days. Well isn't that just a poor reflection of how weak some people have become. Haves and have nots.

You have a line you will not cross, others increasingly, could care less for your ethics, and undercut you. So it goes.

The price of pleasure. The price of status. Humans have this natural progression to cross boundaries for all sorts of reasons in life. Some for good(harder to achieve and maintain, positive achievement) some for bad(easier to cross that boundary, tends to be negatively achieved). Seems everything these days has some cost or price placed upon it.

Want to buy my panties? Want to be on my friends list? Want a set of my pictures? Want to buy my self respect? Want to buy the body, my opportunity, my soul?

I wrote about what we are discussing here now, 2-3 years ago. I perceived and observed what was beginning to occur, and here we are,talking about it again.

It is and has increased to a point where it is becoming common more often.



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Exactly!!!.. as i had said along time ago... everyone has a price.... well not everyone, because they value some things more than money. but people who work in the sex industry generally have a price to go that next step.

Money is all relative)) the prostitute who worked for 300, already made a decision to be worthwhile to provide the service at that price.....

As in any service industry there will always be different standards and price structures,. From your $1.50 per minute price to the $6.00 p/m cam girl. From your street walker hooker to the Top Shelf prostitute ... each has their own social/ demographic cliental and dental plan


What does that say about us as a society.

Selling yourself out to the highest bidder. Not everyone has a price in general.

I think someone here tempted me..once... recently... (No, thank you)


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Have to agree with .... getting laid for money is easy compared to how a top model operates with seduction. .... but it comes down to how much your willing to get laid for.... and what market you operate in


Why? What happened to the word "no".

Maybe we all are missing the bigger picture while discussing what is occurring in these specific areas and not realizing where the real causes stem from.

You think any logical smart person, would go straight to the problem and fix that, instead of accepting the natural course of weakness and accept the easier path to go. Is it because we are losing our freedom to have many other choices or we are just selling ourselves short.

I guess it may be for some, a weakness in character. Or perhaps some are tired of building strength and character and maintain some level higher of pride for themselves.

Another question comes to mind. What about all the models who just meet a client without payment. No exchange of money. Is that also lowering, or breaking down the barriers for many others who do not meet clients? Two separate reasons for doing it. 1) For the money 2) For the emotional and connection between two people

Both are still crossing that boundary.

I guess, I will have to bring solid evidence by copying and pasting what your colleagues elsewhere are resorting to.

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As you were saying Trainer, cam world changed a lot of and in a quiet short period of time. In 2007 I was making all my money on xxxpanded (and hell they pay so baaad). In 2010 a lot of girls are online on more than 5 sites in the same time. A model can reach the same amount of money as in the past, but working more. Members changed a lot of, they have a lot of requests, use a lot of rude words and in a hurry. That's why I think that I'm a piece of meat for most of them. It's true that cam girls changed members. And all this meeting face to face stuff was encouraged by cam girls also. In future, if the sites won't make a cleaning in the models line, I think all this virtual sex will be much more dangerous for members while a genital infection from an ordinary prostitute will seem like a joke.


Thanks BP(no, not the oil company) I have been watching the change, BP, longer than that. It is something I saw would occur and look how it is progressing. Thanks for acknowledging it here.

You are not a piece of meat. When I used to be a client, I treated everyone as a human being not a piece of meat. Not some image or fantasy you can manipulate.

But then again, some members were treated in the same way.


Side note:I speak with someone, sometimes heatedly, who has asks me, continually, How could you change things, like I have no power to help others. Well simply by me bringing up these points here in this discussion, is a beginning. A step. A way to help others prevent somethings or help others make some effective change in themselves, in their lives, or in a manner that benefits all.



Ah the cam industry, just not your virtual fantasy anymore.



camgirlnotes/bq.gif

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#109 [url]

Jan 28 11 1:46 PM

QUOTE (camgirl @ January 28, 2011 11:03 am)
QUOTE
When i showed the girls in the house the earning of models on LJ, they said they wouldt waste their time sitting in fount of a pc all day....


depends who's earnings you compare with who's. There are models who earn over 10.000 $/month (not most, of course) and strippers who earn double. I'm pretty sure most of the prostitutes don't earn as much as a top cam girl, but more than that,. I think most earn under what an avarage cam girl earns.

QUOTE
Exactly!!!.. as i had said along time ago... everyone has a price.... well not everyone, because they value some things more than money. but people who work in the sex industry generally have a price to go that next step.


If it comes to real high price has nothing to do with working in an adult field or not and also has nothing to do with valuing some other things than money. I don't know if you can comprehend my opinion about that.
I am sure most don't want money for paper themselves but for the things they can do/buy with them. A high amount might mean not working for whole their lives, aka more time to take care of things that are indeed more valuable than money. In this world you need money including for doing good. So if you think that an employee who works 10 hours/day for a small amount and have no time for other things, but instead wouldnt work in an adult field just because has misconceptions, don't think about him that he values less the money and more other things. Contrary, there are 10 hours/day from his life dedicated to money. And the time is one of the most precious things we give it as exchange for an amount (smaller or bigger) Imagine how it would be at the end of your life to have few more days to live and do what you like instead of working for paying bills. What about few years. Wouldnt u do anything for that in that moment?
But that schedule or better said life style became so spread as people think it's normal to invest time in job 10 hours/day then go to sleep for the other day to start again. "everybody have a job, if not, they should get one. Immediately. To fit into working system"

If as a cam girl I earn in 4 hours what others in a week and the rest of my week can focus on completely other things than earning money ( cause about that every job is. I am not talking about humanitarian jobs, but working for a corporation sure is for money. Or social status etc, but not real values) it's exactly the opposite.

So coming to the fact that everybody has a price, Im pretty sure everybody would think at least twice if a choice of an hour can change their life and their children and grandchildren, exactly in sense of not thinking about working hard for money but for being concerned about more valuable things.


CG

QUOTE
QUOTE
When i showed the girls in the house the earning of models on LJ, they said they wouldt waste their time sitting in fount of a pc all day....


depends who's earnings you compare with who's. There are models who earn over 10.000 $/month (not most, of course) and strippers who earn double. I'm pretty sure most of the prostitutes don't earn as much as a top cam girl, but more than that,. I think most earn under what an avarage cam girl earns.




sorry to be a b other..... i know strippers in Melbourn( australia) that make around $ 600.00 US A night,....umm actualy thats their fee from going to club to vlub.. dosent include tips)


umm i dont know anything about Romania or the price of bread....umm i know little....

Video chat in Australia is smalll......

strippers make better than the avgerage retaikl trade....
\

the girls inw who work in the escort trade , ... normal girls.. not sexy strippers.. make between $ 3000 and $ 8000, per week...


i would prefer my friends to do cam work)))




yher avgerage wage in Australina is $ aboput *700)00 au doaalrs... a week



Yep ... 100%... time is money.... make it work 4 u ...

really.. i agrtee with u ... its what u do with ur time that counts...

al ok .. ... ..... yeah it art waht camgirls providfe

The reverse side also has a reverse side

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#110 [url]

Jan 28 11 4:04 PM

QUOTE
Side note:I speak with someone, sometimes heatedly, who has asks me, continually, How could you change things, like I have no power to help others. Well simply by me bringing up these points here in this discussion, is a beginning. A step. A way to help others prevent somethings or help others make some effective change in themselves, in their lives, or in a manner that benefits all.


Yes, I have found that just bringing things into consciousness, as something to consider, can significantly alter the trajectory of what happens next. And gives one the ability to see something coming down the pike, that there may be a blind spot too. This has been my experience with my friend. I pointed out a number of observations and suppositions. The talking them out resulted in much value, and acknowledgement and recognition of reality, good, bad, and ugly. And surprisingly, although not the ideal life, some things are not as bad as we might assume.

One thing that is interesting and should be taken into account is the point of view of a model in Romania like camgirl. I agree that sometimes she may be speaking from a narrow point of view, as we all do from our own point of view. But I think westerners in general have an exaggerated idea of studios having a degree of exploitation or pressure on models, that doesn't exist in reality there. I'm not discounting the trends of lines moving downward in the industry. But there is a surprising amount of autonomy of action and choice by models there, and the oppression we might assume is not prevalent. And as she says there are many choices of places to work there, so the individual has choices. My interest is in the environment specific to where my friend is. Also I think there are big shades of difference between the "first" world, Eastern Europe, and the third world. Just as it is in the regular economy for workers, in these different areas. Some of us naturally assume that what exists in the worst environments, applies to all.

"I am very little inclined on any occasion to say anything unless I hope to produce some good by it."
Abraham Lincoln

"I was mute with silence, I held my peace from good; and my sorrow was stirred up."
Psalm 39:2

There is what one knows, there is what one knows they don't know, and there is what one does not know what they do not know.
(mis-quote from an arrogant and dangerous fool, who had at least these wise words to say, if he had only used them to guide his actions)

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#111 [url]

Jan 28 11 11:49 PM

QUOTE
Camgirl sometimes, I think you base your replies using your environment(country, chat room) as the center point and reference point.


Of course, we are all subjective, and the evironment influences our opinions. For instance in other european countries is a normal thing to work and pay rent as much as you can work ( of course the % from salary for rent is lower than in Romania, where the normal salaries are low), and they tend to higher living standard. In here, because during communism everybody had a place to live and work, there is no such thing, in sense that everybody try to buy a house for their own, even smaller than the houses in other countries you pay rent for, because your name on papers is a must. That leads to frustration when the target is not reached, bigger frustration than in other places is normal and they take it as it is.

QUOTE
Do you see more and more of your clients looking and/or asking to meet these days than in the past? She simply said yes


The question is how much a cam girl should care about that? As model you are there to do cam work job, other proposal are not fit so they should just be ignored, as the guys who ask are ignorant themselves. Would you care if a crazy person talks non sense? If you, as normal person are above that, shouldnt get angry on that.

QUOTE
She said she had two privates, just tonight, and one member said they are visiting Romania and if she would like to meet him


She shouldnt tell her real place of living anyway and treat the problem with humor, or trying a different strategy if she wants to keep them in private. Like " really? would you like to meet me? What would you do to me? What fantasies do you have?" and chit chat... if after the money are over message her about meetings she should be like " oh, sry, I don't do that. I thought you were role playing"

QUOTE
One of them has been there before, and is planning on visiting again, irregardless of her strong no's to him.


That fit in craziness. At the beginning might be like a cold shower, but after a while just it is what it is. Internet release the deepest and sometimes darkest sides of a person, behind the nickname. That's why the models have to learn to have tough chin if they want to resist in this business. No place for sensibilities.

QUOTE
Want to buy my self respect? Want to buy the body, my soul?


lol...Those things literally can be sold or bought.


QUOTE
i know strippers in Melbourn( australia) that make around $ 600.00 US A night,....umm actualy thats their fee from going to club to vlub.. dosent include tips) the girls inw who work in the escort trade , ... normal girls.. not sexy strippers.. make between $ 3000 and $ 8000, per week...


That's what I thought too. And for a stripper the tips represent the most ( in many clubs at least). So from your numbers a sexy stripper can earn better than a normal escort.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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#112 [url]

Jan 28 11 11:57 PM

I agree, and have told them to do what you mentioned here.

How much can you ignore someone who you make earnings from, when they have that thought in their mind to meet constantly though?

Do you risk your earnings to anger them by teaching the fantasy of the job?

Those items to be sold I mentioned for a reason, I think you understand what I meant.

camgirlnotes/bq.gif

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#113 [url]

Jan 29 11 12:01 AM

QUOTE
How much can you ignore someone who you make earnings from, when they have that thought in their mind to meet constantly though?


Few years probably forever

QUOTE
Do you risk your earnings to anger them by teaching the fantasy of the job?


So far my earning have not been affected. If the guy wants real meeting is not a client for videochat so even he'd try after with another model who pulls the time in the same way by role playing, or find a prostitute in his area. (again, his own problem )

And personally I havent been asked so many times lately, especially because the clients who have money to spend on videochat many of them know what's cam work about.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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#114 [url]

Jan 29 11 1:07 AM

Ha, Camgirl, if only active members read what you just wrote.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#115 [url]

Jan 31 11 6:52 AM

QUOTE (TRAINER @ January 28, 2011 08:07 pm)
Ha, Camgirl, if only active members read what you just wrote.


I think a lot of members DO read things like Camgirl just wrote. But the fact is, that most of them don't listen or they refuse to believe.

I see much of the same here on the forum. When our performer members actually speak up, they're usually flooded with replies contradicting and challenging them. And it makes me shake my head because so often the truth is right there in front of us. It continually amazes me that members think they know more than performers either by visiting and participating in videochat or by observing videochat and perhaps talking with a performer or two on the side.

CGN is not a videochat site. The performers here have chosen to share much of the intimate goings on from the inside (and from many different perspectives), yet they always seem to get smothered and are told that we don't believe them or that we think we know better than they do about their job. It's ridiculous. And offensive. And it's also one of the primary reasons more performers don't post.

Really, unless you're a sex worker yourself, what makes you think you have anything more than a cursory understanding of what it takes or means to be one? And to work in that environment and to know what really goes on?

Of course it's good to have discussion, and bring questions to light that others may not have thought of. But when members cross the line and start thinking that they know more than those who actually work in the business, and start to present themselves as an authority on this or that, it does more harm than good. For both other members and for performers.

If we're going to learn anything HERE at CGN, then we need to start listening more to our performer members than to the theories of our member members. Not that those theories shouldn't be heard, or that they don't matter, but they shouldn't be presented as FACT. Because the performers who are vocal here have been telling it like it is. From the real trenches. Not from the spectator seats.

Recognizing this fact is long overdue if CGN is going to mature into a forum that actually helps sex workers (the people, not the performers) practically. Which is what a majority of members here claim they wish to do. So I say, LISTEN. How can we know what kind of help they're really looking for if we don't ask them the question, and if we don't listen to their answers to that question as well as to their answers when they're trying to help US?

I completely understand when they're sometimes rude and dismissive regarding some of the things posted here. They're frustrated as hell trying to deal with the blinders and know-it-all attitudes some members just can't seem to get past at times.

Hopefully this is making some sense. Hopefully this is getting through. I'm not pointing a finger at anyone, but rather referencing CGN's entire non-model membership. The performers who post here in public do so more to help YOU understand, not the other way around. Though I'm sure they've learned some things as well, but not nearly what we can learn from them if we'd just listen.

The deal with the camgirl and the guy and the long private that was broadcast is a great example. Some valid lessons can be learned. About the relationship between prostitution and videochat. About the relationship between prostitutes and camgirls. About the fluid nature of perception from those on the outside of any situation. About more than that too, but only when we open our ears and actually hear what they're telling us.

Breeze

~ ~ AFFINITY ~ ~

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#116 [url]

Feb 1 11 9:33 PM

There is something I don't understand. Some either say models don't care about members ( remember the "who the f***k cares what they say? they're just wankers". Sounds familiar? ) and in the same time you think models are so sensible and weak as they will actually start to escort to clients if they insist enough. Those 2 theories basically are in contradiction. And second put models in a worse light than the first, in my opinion.
I'm sure most of the models will say "no" on the internet at their over 18. Unless they decide they want to do it, but that;s a personal decision, not because one member or another says to do it.
If a woman wants to do that, she can, with or without cam work. Actually there are other jobs that possible "expose" to that: one of the most famous romanian prostitutes started by being journalist and used to escort to politicians to have articles after or blackmail them. That means all the female students at Journalism will become escorts? Most probably not.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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#117 [url]

Mar 20 11 6:02 PM

Why would hearing this surprise you at all . Since cam sites have been around, Escorts have been working them.So have porn stars.Do You think they didn't apply their already going business to Cam hosting? . Heck Yes! Who do you think the first Cam hosts were? The girls working with companies in the adult industry already .

Is it really a shock that a cam girl will play to be your perfect girl? Whatever the lie is to make that happen. If you're looking for a regular girl to chat with, you should know the girl working from home who has never been in the adult business. Find a less successful host. One not promoted as a site's top model. There you will chat with your everyday girls. All the sites place their biggest money makers as the most popular hosts and reward them with prizes and bonus money for making the most money. After all think about it, Cam sites are all about making money.. Isn't that what any business is about?

As for the outcome to this. Nothing will change. There is just more known about the truth of how things go on and been going on from the start. Now that its not such a new thing anymore. All secrets come out eventually.

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#118 [url]

Mar 20 11 11:04 PM

Threads like this make me uncomfortable with this forum.

I'm glad MissJane, lookingforwishes, and camgirl, among others, are speaking up, because I don't think I'd have the patience or energy. But what bothers me is that they're defending something very basic and rational, something that shouldn't require defending at all. The fact that it does - here, on a forum ostensibly for sex workers (or whichever term you prefer) - is troubling.

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#119 [url]

Mar 21 11 11:27 AM

QUOTE

Since cam sites have been around, Escorts have been working them.So have porn stars.Do You think they didn't apply their already going business to Cam hosting? . Heck Yes! Who do you think the first Cam hosts were? The girls working with companies in the adult industry already ....

There is just more known about the truth of how things go on and been going on from the start. Now that its not such a new thing anymore. All secrets come out eventually.


Welcome to the forum, Happy Host and thanks for joining the conversation... Why not request an upgrade to model member's status and gain access to the restricted models area...

Look here: http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=38 and send your info to [email protected] and our model moderators will act on your request soon.

As for the value of this thread, Nocturne, I think that Happy Host just answered it... Although there are plenty of posts on other forums that underscore the fluidity that characterizes different kinds of sex work - where individual performers move constantly between the virtual and the real depending on what the market demands of them... But I guess we have a slow learning curve here.. Despite what we were told by lookingforwishes last summer about all that, it took us a while to let the message sink in...

Even so.. and despite the fact that some members ask annoying questions that border on harassment and all too often cross that line - I think it's worthwhile to have a place where "the truth that's been known [within the sex worker community] for a long time," can come out and get stated directly on a public forum.

Happy Host is right to say "All secrets come out eventually," but not without a neutral ground where you can state them. But it's up to the members and mods to keep that space both safe and welcoming to all p.o.v. We will try to do better.

UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#120 [url]

Mar 21 11 11:46 AM

QUOTE (nocturne @ March 20, 2011 06:04 pm)
Threads like this make me uncomfortable with this forum.

I'm glad MissJane, lookingforwishes, and camgirl, among others, are speaking up, because I don't think I'd have the patience or energy. But what bothers me is that they're defending something very basic and rational, something that shouldn't require defending at all. The fact that it does - here, on a forum ostensibly for sex workers (or whichever term you prefer) - is troubling.

I'm glad at least some others are speaking up too. Because if I'm completely honest, I'm just about out of patience.

Breeze

~ ~ AFFINITY ~ ~

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