#61 [url]

Feb 19 11 8:14 AM

QUOTE (TRAINER @ February 18, 2011 02:55 pm)
Well, Reuters, why choose that one or two women you met on a chat site? Why not start a foundation for the poor and destitute. Let's buy 100's of computers to fill schools, or to pay teachers, or to build schools instead of lusting and drooling over cam model and seek your future gf. Or maybe, let's do something really different, and use a years worth of porn site income to really effect a change for many not just those you choose and pick from.

I liked to social aspect of MFC. I wasn't intending to find someone to bestow money upon. I just wanted to chat the night away. And MFC was a cheap way to do just that. This may sound dumb because it is as dumb as a dope can be, but I really thought that my 20 tokens here and there was a big deal. To me it was 20 (!!!) of those suckers. Wow! No, I didn't do the simple math that 20 tokens = $1 USD.

And I would tip and I would get a real nice thank you or whatever the canned response to a model pretending that the $0.25 she just received would pay her rent and internet.

I meet a model, and almost every one of her shifts I would make an appearance and I like this gal and she' friendly and good golly, she shows in free!!! Cool! Can an arrogant American ask for more? I can but I never do or else T.S. Eliot would have to apply his poem "The Lovesong of J. Alfred Prufrock" to someone else.

Hey, personal events occur in the daily life of this model, etc., etc. Now it's 6 months and one day since I became personally involved in her life and I'm a happy camper and for now so is she. The details of the future have yet to be charted other than to talk in broad terms about this or that, they aren't for public consumption. In a PM, phone conversation or an email, that's different than carving the words in stone in this forum.

Why chose her? I didn't. The situation popped up and I "stepped up to the plate". So instead of a dollar here and there on a chat site, it's an involvement. I have no complaints and no regrets and I don't think I want to revisit any "let me prove to you" this and that. I've written a couple of people privately with a lot more details than I've posted here. You can't google a PM (yet).

.
.
You stuck your forearm up the backside of an antelope
and you didn't know that you're going for a ride?

Quote    Reply   

#62 [url]

Feb 19 11 2:14 PM

I wanted to make a long post as reply to Trainer, but I change my mind.
While u say I dont understand this or that, for me it seems you don't understand and your replies doenst have to do much with my feed-bank but your personal frustration and anti-porn sicken. Anyway, nothing personal just that I dont want to use my time trying to explain better what I already did. Those who wants to really read, they will.

QUOTE
How is it overrated when Andra does not even work on MFC


Andra is working on a site where escorts are officially advertised, just as much as cam shows, which is more than the raffles from MFC. So it's possible to have more looking for real meeting guys than on other sites.

So go ahead and call me a liar when i say they are less than 5% for me, i dont care. Ill stop posting anyway, if that's what u call respect for the co-talker.

QUOTE
Where are the other 95% you do not see, in my imagination I suppose.


Lol.. so now ure assuming that all the guys, 100% are looking for real meetings but I "dont see" that... Yes, that's only in your imagination, so some other things.

QUOTE
Lets take that money spent on you, for one month and spread it out to all the trafficked women, children dying, families of lost ones etc etc) and i will do the same, so we can help those victims.


Personally I made donations that sums more than what I made in a month, and I did it because I wanted to, so yeah, I can manage very well so the guys lookin for meetings to not affect me, being u like it or not. I know in your mind cam girls are bad persons who should suffer and if one is handle it and she doesnt suffer, that's something wrong, might be the devil in person She doesnt fit in your "save a ho" fantasy.

And if my way might help some models and some even said it was very helpful, I encourage the evil - this industry, right? See? that wasnt personal and not about U. U made it personal because u dont agree with anything has to do with this job. So keep telling yourself the world is not spinning around you, maybe ull start to believe it one day..

QUOTE
Please keep your assumptions to yourself.


because that's exactly what you are doing? :-)


QUOTE
was there stopping members from mistreating you gals


Maybe you should find some other hobby. This one obviously doesnt make too much good for you.


To finish the whole about $ thing. Even if I could do my work for free, I still woudlnt do it, because the money represent the appreciation for a person's service. If the guys would come to see for free, means are not willing to do an effort aka my services don't worth in their opinion. So $ represents, beside the obvious and normal, better life for me, the sign of appreciation, which can create addiction too. We obviously see things differently - tho I doubt you go to work just because u care about people, and do it for free. But when it comes to sex work services, the $ represents more than in regular payed jobs ( thought Im sure ud feel bad if the boss would tell u that u dont deserve to be payed).

So I'm not expecting you to understand this, but others will, especially those who can put themselves in other's shoes.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

Quote    Reply   

#63 [url]

Feb 19 11 3:12 PM

Well Coolbreeze, I really do not give a rat's ass what you think.

Because quite frankly, you are choosing sides. Now my rut, as you call it, continues as it always does, with new faces each and every day, not mine.

Markfx, is a prime example now, yet he says he continues to go back, and return to a place he logically knows he will get hurt again and again. Mark, as another human being, go seek some help please.

For someone, whether it is a camgirl, a boss, a politician, anyone to take advantage of another person is morally and ethically wrong, period. But as you state it occurs more frequently in cyberia. If someone is going to screw me over whether it is yesterday or 3 years ago, they are going to deal with the repercussions and the consequences.

Why I continue to go there to observe and research is because people only get one side of the real truth, the side from the cam model for the most part. Who as an example one of them who was a member of this forum way before you were moderator here, lied between her teeth, changed her story so many times, than I change underwear to cover her ass. Where the member who I knew personally met her in her country twice, only to get used and fooled. And now you are going to sit her and tell me they deserved that? That this person almost took their life because of it. Because he actually met the person in real life, and I sat there in my humane compassionate way and talked him through why they should not kill themselves over her. There is reason enough to scrutinize this work, and the people involved in it good, bad or ugly. Now you all take that to the bank and process it.

You think I am addicted to it, so be it, like camgirl believes it is this way or that way.

The inconsistent disdain for people that develops in the industry is evidence to the fact that there is very little integrity and honor between human beings. Simply so. Simply allowing it to continue is not only your failure but my failure as well as humans.

It is a reflection of our society in which you, I and billions of others inhabit.

I happened to be there helping you girls out with the very issues you all seem to be whining and complaining about. From there, some insane perverse person entered into my personal space and used it as a place where they felt they could do anything they want without impunity.

Uncle overkill is to say the least.

Here is another example of what the topic is all about, not it all being about camgirls attempt to personally tell me that I can not be unbiased nor as you say as well Coolbreeze. It is from another popular forum. So now go ahead and attack me again for bringing my biases and personal feelings into this, and I will slap you across the face time and time again.

"There have been two 58+ year old men that have been harassing me on my old site, Actually every guy over the age of 55 seems to give me serious problems.
It doesn't even matter the site. They try and talk me to death about life blah blah as if I'm going to find them interesting and compliment me on my mind in a pathetic attempt to act above the masses in ignoring your looks.
I chased a guy out of my room for lying 3 times over. First he said he was in Washington when I know he was right in my state, usually the reason why I block my state 98% of the time, for I'm tired of the "let's meet" losers. Then he went to say ooh I'm looking for love. lol I was like umm what do you mean by that? A lovely lady to have fun in privates, what are you talking about exactly. Well I was thinking we go private for a while and who knows what will happen? Umm excuse me ? So I said what are you hoping will happen? Well maybe we can meet and get married.
My response: No sorry I'm not into marrying a man that is in his late 60's . That's 1 . Secondly, regardless on how much a guy spends in private, I will never meet him. Third you lied 3 times over. So you would never be a match for me. This guy went on like well who knows. Hun I know, I will never be interested. He's like well I have alot to offer you. Umm no you don't I don't do games for cash. Try another country, but coming a girl that live in the US will surely get you shut down. You need to try another country, or allow some girl to lie to you to get your money. He was like well i still want to take you private , will you be here next tuesday. I said I will never go private with you , NEVER!!!! Use your money on someone that will be into what you're offering , but I'm not that person."

That is niether from MFC nor AW camgirl.

That is just what I am using as proof to back up Andra's topic. Not to prove that I am stuck in a rut. Not that you keep telling me that I am addicted to this or that. Not that I know anything more or less than anyone else. Did I add any biased judgements in that post here now towards camgirl?

I tried to keep it unbiased and asked pertinent questions related to the topic not that camgirl or anyone does not know what the fuck they are talking about nor that I know anything more than her.

It was completely unbiased and here I posted something from other people to back up the topic again.

You make it appear that I am on a mission to close down everything related to porn. I can't, but I have every right to be for it or against it. Do not tell me what I can or not say. Do not tell me that I can not fight for equality and ethical moral things anywhere, because the minute I stop things get closer to inhumane actions and occurrences.

The assumptions and incorrect judgements of people is what gets me into a lather here. I accept it for what it is. But not when people get hurt, whether it is a cam model, another member, or anyone anywhere. I am sure you don't want that to occur either.

From now on I won't engage in any opposing debates, because no matter what the real color is, someone will come along and say it isn't so. But I will step in and show evidence to the contrary or evidence to support it.

Not this heresay bullshit or some twisted version from someone who wants to earn another buck or a twisted version from a member who wants to get into a cam girls pants. Both are wrong. period.

I need to listen to my friend tell me every day about the increasingly evolving work of hers, that members keep looking for hook ups, and yet along comes another person and denies it, covers it up, then uses personal pyscho babble to say basically I am full of shit? All heresay until you show me the proof. I am showing you the proof now.

F that. You want to ban me, edit me, silence me go ahead. It is not personal but you make it so. These websites and women make it more personal and personal each and everyday and their colleagues do not want to see, hear, nor deal with it. Yet there is the consequences of others affecting the work of people they do not even know personally.

So you guys can laugh at these perverted people who enter into your places of work. You guys and gals can make bank of of perverted human beings who are addicted to this while they deny it, and you laugh all the way to the bank yet refrain from any moral ethical conscious good that one human being can do for another, and look the other way, because it is the way of the land.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

Quote    Reply   

#64 [url]

Feb 19 11 3:25 PM


QUOTE
I can't, but I have every right to be for it or against it. Do not tell me what I can or not say.


And others have the same right as you to be PRO and not against. I dont tell u what u can say, but respect others opinions too.

QUOTE
then uses personal pyscho babble to say basically I am full of shit?


I didnt say "you", but some guys sure are.

QUOTE
Do not tell me that I can not fight for equality and ethical moral things anywhere


sure u can. But ethical and moral are so subjective, if you look back in history, look what Crusaders done and how many "witches" they burned for healing with plants (proved after they were the beginners of the today's medicine).

QUOTE
You want to ban me, edit me, silence me go ahead.


I really don't. Chill out, man :-)

QUOTE
So you guys can laugh at these perverted people who enter into your places of work


I think some need specialized help, it's nothing to laugh about.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

Quote    Reply   

#65 [url]

Feb 19 11 5:08 PM

Well camgirl you re-read through your previous post and tell me where you attempted to not use the word you, you and you, when speaking here, when it was about me.

Then you changed your tone and tune in your last reply.

Now I am going to step away from your accusations towards me, just like another woman I did to, and tell you to chill out.

I do not condone this work based upon meeting and speaking with individuals who have disdain and judgements rooted deeply on the "propaganda" that Uncle has repeated over the years.

I was unbiased when I entered into your cyber lair and the results over time proved over and over that it isn't all care and concern, once again, as Andra brought up in her thread here. Not about me nor you.

I tried to prove how hypocritical and how people should respect one another, how some do whatever they want to "fuck" over another person. It is often the case as I have witnessed all too many times. The only difference is that cam models from the USA have chosen the work and have a more business like approach to this work and not use the methods that the model Andra described about within this thread. For others in poorer countries anything is fair game and when I say anything, I mean illegal, and immoral methods of emptying ones pockets.

I am here to warn and inform those members, as well as models as to just do your jobs and not get involved in extra curricular activities. The same belief as you and Andra and many other models want and wish for.

Yet, I became the victim of a few, and not just from one model, so one concludes that it ain't what it appears to be. I learned that lesson very well, and am here to not only stop that when I see it but to also inform others about it.

Which led me to return the taste of any persons own medicine when someone does something to screw another person over.

But you all take those instances and make it appear that I can not be unbiased or have any respect for you women. I say you are wrong, as all you would have to do is speak with a good friend of mine who is a cam girl.

So stop projecting your judgements to me when it comes to my lack of understanding and knowledge when it comes down to your work and the hardships or inequality at your jobs and in your lives in reality.

Enough said here about subjectivity and objectivity. If I really truly despised and did not understand it, I would not still help models I don't even know regarding their pirated shows. Or try to keep a naive member from getting their wallets emptied by a predator.(Sounds pretty similar to agreement there from another thread).

The fact of the matter is we are on opposite sides of the view about this, and you just believe every member deserves what they get as you believe I think every model deserves to be called names and disrespected by the work they do.
(huh sarcasm there)

If I was so biased and so anti-camming I would have disappeared years ago and not give a shit about people. Now one wonders how a person can be so subjective as you say and still have a great friendship with a camgirl. It must be a freaking miracle then.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

Quote    Reply   

#66 [url]

Feb 19 11 5:09 PM

QUOTE
Andra is working on a site where escorts are officially advertised, just as much as cam shows, which is more than the raffles from MFC.

It is not only about THAT site CG,that one is an escort site also so I can understand why am I asked for real meetings.I work 3 sites at moment and everywhere is the same no matter if they advertise or not escorting.
QUOTE
So go ahead and call me a liar when i say they are less than 5% for me

Nobody called u liar.It seems like what is happening in some chat rooms it isnt happening in others.Lucky you if only 5% are asking for real meetings,u can handle easy a 5%.Is not the same for me and remember is not bcs I work on an escort site only.

Quote    Reply   

#67 [url]

Feb 19 11 5:15 PM

thanks for clarification, Andra.

QUOTE
The only difference is that cam models from the USA have chosen the work and have a more business like approach to this work and not use the methods that the model Andra described about within this thread.


Do they? And you know that from.... ? Have you read the private forums, exclusively for models, from american sites with most of the models being americans? I did.
You prove to have just as much of strong misconception side, as the guys who think all the women from poorer countries are whores, or more whores in poorer countries ( because they didnt stepped outside of the house too much to find real escorts there). Only a different type of misconception in your case.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

Quote    Reply   

#68 [url]

Feb 19 11 6:09 PM

Trainer - I don't see anyone here saying it's not happening. And I'm not interested in banning you either. But it's difficult to discuss these things when you keep filling the thread with your outrage. You make it personal. Every time. And you're not helping the thread, you're hurting it. I'm asking you nicely, please let those who currently have a cooler head, and are more focused on the issue, speak. And I also ask your good model friend directly to speak to you about your behavior in this thread.

Regardless of percentages, it's obvious that there seems to be an increasing number of members looking for offsite hookups. The reasons for those increasing numbers has also been outlined pretty well. Advertising, (some) member attitudes towards the women who work in videochat, and the way some performers encourage it (whether for extra money or because they actually follow through or because of both).

The question, as I see it, is how do you as performers deal with it. Not whether it's "right or wrong" or "who's to blame" or "How do we stop it". Because it's not going to change, and will probably only become more common.

Breeze

~ ~ AFFINITY ~ ~

Quote    Reply   

#69 [url]

Feb 19 11 7:10 PM

QUOTE
The question, as I see it, is how do you as performers deal with it. Not whether it's "right or wrong" or "who's to blame" or "How do we stop it". Because it's not going to change, and will probably only become more common.

Well that was not exactly the theme of this thread but degenerated in something else.Which is not wrong but not good either,probably.
It already became common to scam,to have meetings outside of sites of work or to have real meetings and yes we will not change it.
It happens that I agree with Trainer in almost all that he is saying but this doesnt mean that we are wrong,just that we are bit different than others and we have different views than others.we cant be all the same and is good to see different opinions if everyone will agree with everyone then wont be an interesting forum.

Quote    Reply   

#71 [url]

Feb 19 11 8:30 PM

Well Coolbreeze, where did I make it personal until you and camgirl made it personal?

Now back on topic, Camgirl why is it that Americans are doing much better on MFC for example than most Romanians are, or as I have read elsewhere that many American models work on other sites than MFC as well?

Or that many of the old timers from MFC are lower in the ratings nowadays or have left that site. If MFC for example is leading the change to a different approach to this work and other websites are copying that success, does that not indicate that these American models have a new style changing the way things are accomplished?

I observe it each and everyday there as one example. What is said on one other forum is not representative of an entire industry though. Niether is the fact that you have yet to show us proof here to the contrary.

The topic here is about models who use the weaknesses of members, to exploit members into some fantasized relationship. Which should never occur period. We all agree with that.
Second, the fact that you do not deny having members come into your chat and look to meet in person.
Third, the fact that when a member does go private they are seeking some sort of connection and more often these days a real live meeting, hence they will spend more trying to attain a more intimate relationship. Which in many instances the model encourages and allows to happen, by giving out personal info or yahoo or skype or messenger addresses. So eventually, they can milk more off the top avoiding having that money siphoned off to the websites and their studios for some models that work in a studio environment.
Next, and I suggest and have experienced and Reuters, systane, christian, me, and so many others you do not know about have made personal connections away from a models work.Which leads an unbiased conclusion, that their is something more than just the work occurring there.
Then you have people who now believe that they have that opportunity to meet and form a more intimate relationship with that client. And the fact that it is by models from poorer countries that do it more often can not be denied for any number of reasons.
Then as the example by Andra here twice, oh yes,she did also mention about a friend who actually did meet a client, then Miss Janes confession, coupled with some of my other acquaintances over the years. One must surmise and conclude how rampant or popular it is, and you are in the minority.
So now comes along this poor model and gets gifts from that member in the manner Andra describes previously.

Does it occur with Western models(USA,Canada Uk etc.) I don't doubt it does occur with them either. But the difference is one model is doing it as part of their work whereas the others do it to scam more from that client of theirs.

If I am incorrect then show me otherwise.Do we all agree that tactic is wrong or possibly unethical. Well for the honest models and members I am positive they will resoundingly say yes.

All the above, plus you add in all the raffles, the win a date contests, etc etc, and what is a member to believe or think about the opportunities all around them.

Coolbreeze, did I make it personal and wild just now? Nope, it is when you and others say I am making it personal. The only personal things I am lathered up about is for the people that have and have tried to do the same above as I described, to me or to others that I may witness. I am sure you nor anyone would be just as angry at that. Why can't those people just come onto the websites and do their business and leave. Could it be explained based upon what I wrote above? Or I should turn my back and say nothing and say"it is what it is".

Now if I was so subjective and making it a personal battle of me vs. the rest of the models, you would not see Andra step up and say she actually agrees with my view of her work. Now thats really objective and out of the box than reading day after day, the same old things from one side denying what is apparently obvious.

Now what can be done about it. I will list them here and now.

Will you be able to change it or make it stop? I doubt it because that is the very essence of the popularity of the work to a member. The thought that they can, have, and could meet a real cam model for whatever motivations.

1) Have the websites stop marketing these websites and the models to a potential member, as a means to form a romantic relationship. Stop holding contests for valentine of the year, and similar contests.
But quite honestly I doubt that will occur because that is the bait these days.

2) Have your colleagues(models) stop using what Andra used as an example to encourage, promote or whatever you wish to consider it, to form a close intimate relationship with a their customers. But once again that will not occur.

3) Write a disclaimer or warning on each website, that this is addictive and warn them that the models are not escorts, or there to form some intimate relationship.Best of luck with that.

4) Use this forum as a means to get the models to voice their opposition in the public areas against those meetings(which has been done) but has worked for few and for others they are as stubborn as camgirl is when defending her job.

5)Take camgirls advice and tell those to fuck off bluntly, when approached by such a ,member. But alas, many models who are not as experienced or professional and struggle will take the opportunity to scam and even meet a member, for whatever motivations they have.

Coolbreeze, you can say that you are here for these models, and are trying to help them get in and out as you say. But you lose focus on all the thousands who had no other choice but this work. Ok so you want them to succeed, in reaching their personal goals, but geez,from an unbiased view of it all it just is a true reflection of what ails people in many areas of the world these days. To objectively, understand why so many attempt the work and dream of riches, due to their unfortunate circumstances, is the real issue in the real world.
These women are the results of economic disparity, unequal opportunity, bias, and at times abuses of the policies which many live under. And it is a correlation to the socio economics and disparities of the rich, the oligarths, the corruption in many places and the inequality of another human being.

At one time I was just like you and others in their rational thinking regarding the work. Nowadays, since many a woman has used this work to go beyond what camgirl and Andra are writing within this thread against those acts that Andra has written about and seen it occur to me and many others, why should I still want to keep the status quo going.

The billions upon billions made off of porn each year could make a huge difference in society as a whole, not just a percentage of people who just happen to choose or not choose cam work, or sex work as their alternate or chosen primary profession.

If that is not an objective unbiased view of things then one of us, needs to consult a psychiatrist or other professional counselor.

Because in the many years I have observed and from what I have seen and experienced personally, things have not improved in my humble opinion.

And to Reuters, I too have enabled a few over the years and most recently. I would much rather "enable" masses of people than just a percentage of them.

A line form a star trek episode years and years ago: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". You can apply that to most anything these days, and just take a look around the globe and recently in all the Arab countries.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

Quote    Reply   

#72 [url]

Feb 19 11 8:40 PM

I am happy to remark that this thread is getting back on track.. And the personal barbs have stopped.. Guys, we agree upon much more than we disagree on.. and CGN - and its mods - are not the enemy. So let's try to keep this constructive - especially in view of the fact that 10 new model members have joined us in the past 24 hours. So I would prefer to wait a day to two before allowing our on-going Soap Opera to drive them away.. Okay? Got that?
UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

Quote    Reply   

#73 [url]

Feb 19 11 8:48 PM

QUOTE
Camgirl why is it that Americans are doing much better on MFC for example than most Romanians are


If you check imlive's top 120, 80% of them are romanians, although there are lot of americans there too.

Probably MFC has a specific way of "must hustle" which fits more to americans that are more comfortable with the exposure than the europeans. That says nothing about general earnings and a group of people's morality (that has nothing to do with the earnings anyway)

Plus assuming USA is a rich country is only a BS the government from there makes you believe you are privileged and worth to pay taxes. A cam girl in Romania can afford more than one from USA, and I know there are ghettos and districts there (pretty many) who look much worse than most of the places from here. But.. you probably dont have the courage to step there, so u cant know that :-)

QUOTE
Or that many of the old timers from MFC are lower in the ratings nowadays or have left that site.


They found better sites, with higher % and better traffic ( maybe lower traffic generally but more as quality)
It's called constructive solution ( I case you want to add it in y dictionary )

QUOTE
1) Have the websites stop marketing these websites and the models to a potential member, as a means to form a romantic relationship. Stop holding contests for valentine of the year, and similar contests.
But quite honestly I doubt that will occur because that is the bait these days.

2) Have your colleagues(models) stop using what Andra used as an example to encourage, promote or whatever you wish to consider it, to form a close intimate relationship with a their customers. But once again that will not occur.


And you think that will change something? As you said, that will not occur.

MFC already had legal problems, but they have a base of millions of $.. right.. money solve nothing in your book... still they are up, even the free porn shows are illegal ( underage persons can easily watch) Well, good luck with that :-)

Maybe the judge will prefer your speech instead of MFC's millions bribe. :-)
Bu you know what? As "shitty" as they seem in some aspects, they did something: they created work places. Not volunteer and not perfect, but they offered a choice between other sites and some models make their living from what they earn there. And personally I respect them for that. They don't speech about models wrong or right, they offer something essential for those who work there.


You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

Quote    Reply   

#74 [url]

Feb 19 11 8:57 PM

Lets stop the personal barbs again camgirl.

I lived in New York City, hung out with people of all minorities, worked at Harlem hospital in Harlem when it was not yuppified as it is these days. Where I performed my work in a neighborhood where every other building was a burned out shell of a carcass.

I was brought into a drug neighborhood by a Black Friend for him to buy drugs.

I lived in New Orleans during the worst natural disaster to occur to the USA and have worked in the Third Ward there in the inner city.

Anything else you would like to poke incorrect judgements about me again I will gladly suffice in eliminating your misconceptions.

Back on topic again, and I am watching other websites follow the business style of MFC these days.

You just can't stop it can you.... Ok Coolbreeze who is at fault here this time?

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

Quote    Reply   

#75 [url]

Feb 19 11 9:22 PM

ok, then if u did that why do you say the romanians are more immoral or less professional than americans? just because are from a 'poorer"country as u say?

How the american dealer who sold drogs to your friend is more moral than a romanian cam model?

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

Quote    Reply   

#76 [url]

Feb 19 11 10:23 PM

Camgirl where did I specifically say it was Romanians specifically.

I said that those from poorer countries, which include Ukraine, The Eastern Bloc, South America, Asia.

Have you read any threads from topix forum camgirl?

There you have bloggers who post info about all countries including Romania.

The thing that catches a persons eye there, is the Romanian forum where there are threads about scamming people, and life in Romania. The most disturbing thing is not that some people are doing horrible immoral things as well as good things all over the world, but it is reading posters, who go out of their way to make it racial or ethnic profiling.

The things I read from people there make this forum vanilla(to use a sex term in porn).

Another forum frequented by strippers, sex workers, and cam models, they say whats on their minds.
Except when someone goes against the community, and that thread was posted here by Uncle.

I am just making comparisons about personal attacks in a general sense that has occurred throughout this thread here, simply because someone has an alternate view or opinion.

I am most concerned about the human interactions these days more than how much money you gals make, or the websites or the traffic. That is not important in relation to the topic here being discussed.

Now to your edited part of your recent post, I found a website that tracks traffic, revenue, rankings etc about any website one could think of, but I can not find it now.

So I will post the Alexa.com comparison of just 4 porn websites and the traffic they say they have. I used MFC,SM,PF,and F4F, as a comparison. I wish I could find the other site though.



Just take a gander at it. It appears SM has the most traffic etc etc. Im Live in third.

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/*MFC*s.com#

But I remind you we are not discussing traffic and are going off topic again.

I just answered your question about me, personally, be afraid to go into the worst neighborhoods in the USA that you yourself say are much worse than any in your country.

I never said anything about comparing cam models to drug dealers.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

Quote    Reply   

#77 [url]

Feb 19 11 10:29 PM

sure, but u cant compare the quality of a traffic from a site where mostly free cams are not used - iml (there are some who uses, but the site is not a 100% free cams) and one with lot of lurkers where models do hardcore shows in public. that doesnt mean the paying clients are more on the second.
Just how I have a friend working on a site with only 5 models online, and she makes 12 K/month, better than a top MFC girl or comparable.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

Quote    Reply   

#78 [url]

Feb 22 11 2:08 PM

Back on topic here.

As I was reading complaints, gripes and the obvious disgust from models towards men who are members on these websites.

I fully comprehend this is a job, but seriously this snippet tends to appear to create a general hatred and may underscore what Noname mentioned and a theory I have after working as a cam model for some time.

QUOTE
I'm so going to be single for a long ass time. I've only been doing this now for 5 months . CAM/PHONE/SMS.

I think I need to add a thread. " How do you date men when this is what you do for a living"? For I just don't see the point now. I'm a straight female and I feel like it's over for me right now. I just don't see a point of giving something away for free that others are now paying for. So I show my ass on cam playing with a toy? Now I have to roll onto a guy in real life? I don't know I'm truly perplexed on the issue. With this job and seeing how many men are actually married or in relationships I feel like well what's the point of a relationship now? A good example : Does anyone watch Dairy of a Call Girl on either I think Showtime or HBO? Did you see that the guy who she thought was normal... the writer.. was paying to sleep with good old "Bambi"? But yet she was sleeping with him for free thinking she found love? How crappy was that revelation. And really what man would be ok being with a woman that is not really his and his alone? How would he deal with what you do ? And would you respect him if he couldn't provide for you so you didn't have to do this as a job?

These are the questions that swim around in my head. For I always get the guy that comes into my privates bragging about the women he meets from these sites. I find most of my clients to be creepy as hell and even if it doesn't seem this way initially they usually show it at some point. One of my highest spending clients that really didn't push me to get naked at all kept hinting at meeting me. Then when he talked about he was "separated" and has kids. I was immediately turned off. I also said well why should we meet? Just seems off color to meet someone from the site. He also tried to act like he was different because he took me private for several hours to just talk. Once he brought up wife and I realized why he never put lights on in his home or even called to have a phone chat I realized his wife probably lived right there with him. He saw the disgust on my face... for yeah I can't really bullshit when I get turned off.

When he talked about meeting I asked if he meant like escort? He said no just because you want me. Yes I would say ignorance is bliss but for the webcam world ARROGANCE IS BLISS. So now I'm supposed to jump on a plane and meet you to sleep with you while you're obviously married...oohh and let's not forget...umm for free??WTF? ohh and now I realized why he wasn't having me take anything off. He was trying to prepay for pussy. How kind of him. What a douchebag? Our last session I kinda pushed him for some play and the guy came in 2 mins....Why am I not surprised? Could you imagine the girl that actually went and met this guy? She probably felt like an idiot since apparently he's back on the site looking for another fool. He's nice looking , physically fit but apparently has "issues". I guess this game has worked for him in the past since he said he's already met a few hosts. I really wish cam girls would stop meeting these guys for this seems to be a main reason why many sit up in your face for hours in free chat. Or some spend money on privates trying to make you feel you owe them something more because they're JUST TALKING.

WTF?

So ladies how do you deal with the dating world> If you date men while doing this for work how do you feel being touched by these guys for free? If they know what you do ..How do you feel about how they are not bothered by your naked body being shown to men for money.

My sister started stripping clubs at 18 and has been doing that on and off for years she's 32 now. She was straight and now she's gay. I feel the thought of guys to her just disgusted her after seeing how they acted at clubs. Ohh and of course there is always some douchebag that will touch a stripper and get away with it. Alot of clubs allow things nowadays that are illegal in most states but they are after that paper of course so they tend to look away.

So any thoughts ladies would be great. I try to chat in regular chat rooms just to have a normal conversation but get pissed when someone is saying hey lets cam or hey let's sex chat like I would ever do that for free. I usually piss of guys this way and later I get called all kinds of things in the chatroom surprisingly mostly from other women. I don't advertise on these basic chat sites. I just chat on there to normalize my conversations with men. But it does get rather nasty and ugly when I tell people what I do. Like I scammed them out of something some how when I just logged in there to have a cool G rated chat.


any thoughts?


I know this is your job, and it gets frustrating when you have members who appear to think with the wrong heads, or that you can not imagine how stupid a person could be.

I agree with Andra when she states these men view you as "whores". If a man wants to meet you then I tend to believe it is for the sex for the most part, while the disdain for a models clients appears to turn some women off to wanting to meet a client.

But of course, some models employ contests to earn money and the winner does meet with the model holding the contest.

Which leads me to one other scenario again, What about the men and women that do meet then? Is it because that man treated the woman with respect and in some ways, was different than many others that a model might encounter during her job duties? I think so, which still indicates that there are real time meetings going on.

Do any of you think it might be because of the environment and atmosphere you have encountered each other on?

Well to me there appears to be a distancing of woman views towards men because of this type of work based upon the posts along with what I quoted here above.


Stay safe. camgirlnotes/bq.gif

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

Quote    Reply   

#79 [url]

Feb 23 11 8:33 AM

Trainer,
I've reflected on what I was saying regarding healthy distancing/bracketing vs. unhealthy diassociation/desensitizng. If I step an even further distance from the subject to be even more strickly objective and dispassionate to the subject, I'd have to say the effect on a model will be there at some point in time. The only thing that allows no major effect is the ability to define the job as temporary and that there is an end point when one imagines doing something else. This applies I believe universally to the 70% (see below), from what I have observed and from what has been shared with me.
What I described as no big deal from what I was told, is really just a coping method. From what has been shared to me, the overiding force is an attack on the performers self definition, self worth, and mental well being. The very nature of the job, does this in various different ways, again to that 70%.

I am going to define, as I see it the 70%. I'm doing this to be able to speak in the future of this catagory of performers without confusing the issue. In the first 2, it is debatable as two the percentages, but I am convinced as to the 70%.
1) 20% of performers are self chosen, comfortable with the work. For them it is a form of self-expression and decent form of income.
2) 10% are natural born scammers and would run games wherever they are.
3) 70% have found this work as a compromise choice when there are few or no options to make a living. As much as it is kept hidden, you've seen it, we've all seen it, performers have acknowleged it to themselves and sometimes to others. That being the fear of changing, the acknowlegement of change that they did not want, or do not want. The only thing that keeps their minds and spirit strong is the idea that they will be out at some time. And as long as that idea has any reality, as long as hope has not been given up, then they can manage to keep it at bay and be true to themselves.

I'm sure you have seen the point when a performer in that 70% gives up, gives up hope, gives up on herself, it's pretty heartbreaking. I saw it once. That was enough for me. I shared with my friend that I had seen this once. She really wanted me to describe what I saw and knew just what I meant. This was one of the things that we talked about at some point in knowing each other better. It was the right thing to talk about at the right time for her, as she was getting concerned about herself and the effects the job could have on her. She ended up having a lot more to say about the subject.

I don't dare to narrowly define your motivations, as I see many different good ones. But I venture to guess this is one of them, to not want these performers to be worn down and ground into something that they are not.

(I'm sure I am going to get some flack for this post, but it is as underlying true to me and my friend as it gets. At least from two peoples perspectives, one on each side of the screen)

I'm not sure if this should be a different thread, but I thought to address our debate here would be a start, and to ask if this is part of our common ground.

"I am very little inclined on any occasion to say anything unless I hope to produce some good by it."
Abraham Lincoln

"I was mute with silence, I held my peace from good; and my sorrow was stirred up."
Psalm 39:2

There is what one knows, there is what one knows they don't know, and there is what one does not know what they do not know.
(mis-quote from an arrogant and dangerous fool, who had at least these wise words to say, if he had only used them to guide his actions)

Quote    Reply   

#80 [url]

Feb 23 11 12:00 PM

QUOTE
But I venture to guess this is one of them, to not want these performers to be worn down and ground into something that they are not.


your intentions are good, but are there any practical solutions besides the moral support?
from my perspective, and maybe im in those 20%, nothing last forever anyway. The harder you work, the sooner ou wont have to work at all. Just changing the jobs wouldnt make me happy, contrary, if Id change to something much less payed that offers me much less time, I wouldnt see it as an upgrade. About "doing the things we'd like", how many people generally actually love their jobs? Maybe just 20% applied everywhere.

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

Quote    Reply   
Add Reply

Quick Reply

bbcode help