#101 [url]

Mar 8 11 5:28 PM

QUOTE
And then there's the cultural factor, the notion of chivalry, where men tend to pay for dinner, drinks, etc. So it might seem chivalrous of you to offer her some financial security if, to see you, she needs to cut back her working hours.



In this situation, it is a form of what you described above with some fibbing involved as well.

QUOTE
Now, I'm saying this as someone who doesn't do this. I feel like financial expectations can get in the way of a relationship - I don't want him to feel like he needs to pay for my presence, and I don't want to feel like I owe him something for his generosity. But I also have the luxury of making those choices. If I were living from paycheck to paycheck, I wouldn't have a choice. If I had to choose between making rent and making time for a relationship, and if it's a matter of survival, I'm going to choose what keeps me from falling into debt.



Occuring as well.

QUOTE
I'd say yes. On one hand, she might genuinely need to be compensated to off-set the time she's spending away from work. On the other hand, some women do view camming as a hustle and never shut that hustle off. And it could be some grey area between the two. Maybe her emotions are absolutely genuine, but only within the parameters of a paid relationship, which isn't the same as someone who pretends to be in love for money. And some women just want someone to take care of them financially, no matter what career path they've chosen.





Definitely all of the above. The more this member talks about it the more clueless they appear. Would deluded foolishness or naive blindness make a good description for it?

QUOTE
And definitely look for signs that she might not be sincere. I hate being cynical, but it's true that you don't want to be just a mark being hustled for extra cash, especially when it's becoming personal, so I'd look for signs of manipulation, particularly passive aggression, mood swings that coincide with payment, and (possibly manufactured) personal drama. I really hope that isn't the case, though.



This is the case I am afraid to say.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#102 [url]

Mar 8 11 7:42 PM

Thanks to you both for the interesting exchange. Allow me to suggest however that it might be helpful to you Trainer, to re-read Elizabeth Badinter's comment on "Bounded Authenticity" to get Nocturne's point here about how it's possible to have genuine feelings for a client that remain contained within the boundaries established by their commercial relationship.. That is to say: something commercially grounded but not entirely "counterfeit."
Look here: http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=868

Badinter's talking about "high-end escorts," but I suspect that the kind of cam-models to which Nocturne is referring are not that all different.. And a world away from the porno-girls one sees in the open rooms on MFC.. So distant that it's almost "another profession" - except for the "sucking and fucking oneself" part, that is.. And on that Look at this post from the Harlot's Parlour on the status distinctions among sex workers, "It's all about Class."
http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=1546

UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#103 [url]

Mar 8 11 9:23 PM

Well thanks for asking me to re-read the links you provided again Uncle.

I think we are in agreement, and I myself may have always been understanding as to the sex workers sense of empowerment, freedom of choice and of free will,based upon rational logical decisions.

Bernstein's paper, comments much on the "middle class" and the decisions to choose a more lucrative form of employment. And the emotional exchanges or boundaries between them and their customers.

What I am pointing out is that since this article was written, that economic times have changed drastically.

That for many who find themselves in need of immediate employment, not so unusual from what the articles discuss for the middle class, that both choose it, and take upon the work primarily for the money.

Personally, I may not condone it mostly these days, but tolerate it and perhaps understand the choice of those who choose it over other forms of employment because they enjoy the work and their customers and the sexual acts, fantasy and entertainment of it all. For many they really enjoy many of aspects of the jobs as well.

What I am stating here, is not the work itself, but when the worker, goes out of their way to deceive an individual(customer) into "white-knightism", or creates some form of guilt complex that one feels compelled to "help" those who may not to some degree enjoy the work but have no other alternative opportunities available to them, irregardless of where they are located. That a persons poverty or lack of earning ability as a sex worker leads to other forms of manipulation.

Everyday, I come across a few chat hostesses, who for lack of better words or descriptions, take on the job of sex worker, because there are no other alternatives. That quite a few do it out of desperation, out of necessity, other than of free choice or free will. Even though they say it was their free will and choice to accept it. Well logically, I think there are many other factors that contribute to those decisions that people should take into account.

On top of that, some of them, seem to use other methods to deliberately, fool or manipulate customers, to become hooked on them, and then proceed to milk that cow dry, while not telling the truth or not using ethical practices or perhaps moral values.

Yes I know we all have argued and discussed these moral and ethical values heatedly,but to see it occur, one must say, what the fuck, or better, Why?

If a person such as camgirl or nocturne can make a good living not doing those things, then why do others in the same environments act in a different manner?

I have much respect for people who do "not" lie, deceive or cheat others where I feel the opportunity in such a setting, to do the worst can easily be done versus doing their jobs ethically and honestly.

I merely point out how one side is trying to be the "good" to some degree, while the other side is rearing its "bad and ugly" side of the job and quite honestly, exposing their own poor value system perhaps.

There is alot more that I have seen between the two individuals discussed here than has been revealed. That is up to the original poster to decide if and when and what they wish to share here. But most of us would not be happy with either participant, which leads back to the main premise of this topic. Who is naive and who's fault it may be.


I also would like to add, if many chat hostesses are doing this work as a means to pay for an education, based upon the latest statistics of available good paying non sex careers, that the current state of affairs, economically, do not provide enough availablity for them when their educations are completed. So sex work becomes or remains their only viable employment available even after a degree or degrees have been obtained.

One can also take note, that females are becoming the majority of the student population over males these days. Which leads one to ponder, if women were to overtake men in earning power,in acheived educational degrees, etc., where will all the big spenders of the future(male customers) with the liquidity and purchasing power come from in the future. Perhaps, there will be more female customers enjoying the entertainment that male members crave. Just a thought.


camgirlnotes/bq.gif

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#104 [url]

Mar 16 11 11:56 AM

cool.gif Hmmmm.. a little confirmation from "Stripperweb" from CherryBlossomxxxx about what Andra and other models have reported in this thread about members who now expect face2face meetings. I am not sure what site she's talking about but it doesn't seem like its MFC.
UL

QUOTE


Dear Diary : The Life of Real Cam Girls:

Dear Diary,

So it's about 2:34am I'm sitting up thinking I should have been to bed already. I keep wondering what the next cam day will hold. Should I skip today and take a break and enjoy watching movies all day? Also I'm still weirded out by the amount of "let's meet" types on this new cam site I started working on. I'm getting requests every single day and it's not from random guests , but from actual members, some of which have spent money on me. It's making me uncomfortable and at the same time it's exciting. I'm flattered but annoyed.

I often wonder if it's a chip on a guy's shoulder something similar to him wanting to date a Stripper. Just something to brag about to friends. I also notice that these guys that want to meet never get on cam. It's as if they want you to get comfortable with their personality so that their face and body will not be as frightful. I just realized that this one guy said he went to high school in the 80's. I was born in the 80's. Does this mean that this guy is 15-20+ years older than me? Is this why he will not get on cam? I hate when people state that they felt a "connection". I often think yes that's called "internet". Ugghh Why can't they just let the fantasy be the fantasy and leave it at that?

I have two crazed fans on the site that now make me never want to go back. He will make number three. I did leave him a nice message to his "meet" response stating the truth. I don't date because I cam. If I ever got into a relationship or became married then I would at that point find a new line of work. He made sure to tell me about how well he did for himself, which could also be a pack of lies. When someone is looking to meet after a 10-15 min private that says to me that was the purpose for the private in the first place. I also notice the guys that want to meet only have you chat in the private, they don't ask for anything sexually which is probably because they would only be able to get off to you in person. Then again maybe they're trying to show some sexual restraint to put them above the "handy" masses. I still get pretty creeped out regardless.

We shall see what happens the next day I log in.

PS. Whoever is marketing this site as a dating option , they should have the tips of their fingers burned. Perhaps they'll be more careful in the letters the choose to press down next time.

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#105 [url]

Aug 7 11 7:36 AM

Just an addition to a long heated thread.

I saw a chat host with this topic, tonight:

Topic: Hi! Win a trip to RO to meet me! 500 =1, 900 =2, 2000 =5 tickets > profile! 971 pants off ! PVT's!


And so it goes......

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#106 [url]

Aug 21 11 11:40 PM

excellent thread, everyone

i've got nothing but respect for the thread starter and camgirl....both so capable of make the distinction of videochat as "a job"

you gotta respect that point of view.....i just don't have what i see called "the perviness" in me to enjoy it.

which only means i'm coming from a different place

trainer....poignant questions as always....a bit didactic....but that's your way

the one thing that i wonder about includes both the simple pragmatism of a woman's work in videochat, and the underlying "humanity" that trainer strives to find

so....i wonder...all the talk about "relationships" has included mention of private....which is always about a guy fufillling some need on a camsite....

is there such a thing as a relationship with a website member that precludes a private?.....and if so...how does it change the transaction onsite?

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