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Jul 24 11 4:54 PM

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cool.gif Well, the MFC Models have finally reacted to the fact that MFC has become a "free-fire zone" where anything goes - from dildo shows in open rooms, to under-age Pinay models to rampant piracy... So Here's another one.

link: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/mfcrules/

QUOTE


The Petition

*MFC*s.com has rules they ask and expect every model to agree to in their contract, they also ask in return that we give them rights to content and various other things. We sign these contracts in good faith, and then *MFC*s has set up an atmosphere in which there is no real moderation, no regulation, no enforcement, and worst of all no punishments or consequence for the most grievous and egregious breaking of these rules with Masturbation and insertion shows, Girl/Girl Shows, and many other even more graphic examples.

This has several implications.

1. Since MFC does not enforce these rules, girls are then forced to break these rules in order to compete. Thus they are forced to breach a signed contract or be at an extreme disadvantage to the girls who ARE willing to break the rules.


2. Since MFC can arbitrarily decide to enforce these rules and charge fines which remove INCOME from the women, the models are in constant danger of the day MFC decides to have a week of moderation to look good (which has happened, and always seems to affect lower earning models).


3. The shows being done in the Free Area are patently offensive and illegal to do in a place where minors can EASILY access. There is no system in place (not even a disclaimer) to stop minors from seeing this stuff. Yet we believe MFC knows this and doesn't care, because they are fully of the belief that if a law enforcement action takes place, that it will be the MODEL who is held responsible. So we want this petition to show that people are aware that MFC does not ENFORCE their rules, so IS responsible for what goes on in its site.

4. Lastly, by allowing shows which are patently beyond the scope of a free "teaser" for customers, that allow the customer a full experience for free, and do not encourage tipping or purchase of private and group shows, the models at ALL sites are left with a business that is much diminished by MFC not following their own stated rules.The entire Webcam business is diminished and the open sexual shows in free areas give all webcam girls a BAD name.

Make MFC Follow Their OWN rules and comply with the LAW. It's the Right Thing To Do!



"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#1 [url]

Jul 24 11 5:58 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMxX-QOV9tI&ob=av2e

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#3 [url]

Jul 26 11 4:45 AM

I had a discussion with Uncle Lewis earlier.

He wanted me to post here pertaining to a thread I read somewhere else.At first I declined. Now I add a few thoughts but not the ones I mentioned to him.

I will merely add that I saw it fucking coming. Some of you fxxxing don't listen. Blind leading the fxxxing blind... eh?

Here I leave you all with a few quotes from others from somewhere else now:

QUOTE
We should stick to our guns but you can't turn a blind eye in the way media is now. You can't fight it nor the consumers. You just gotta EXPLOIT THE WEAKNESSES and areas that are still profitable and reach the demand that consumers have, those that cannot be found anywhere else.




QUOTE
Bxxxxxxxa said that with an investment of $100 from only 100 girls, she could take on the camming world... she's either dishonest or she didn't do due diligence. We are not stupid cam girls, we are empowered women who collectively hustle men with doctorates out of hundreds of thousands of dollars per day..


QUOTE
We have a single system, and in that system the only question is the price at which the proletariat is to be bought and sold, the bread and circuses.""The whole fabric of society will go to wrack if we really lay hands of reform on our rotten institutions. From top to bottom the whole system is a fraud, all of us know it, laborers and capitalists alike, and all of us are consenting parties to it." -- Henry Adams"


Who really are the stupid ones?

I asked Uncle to highlight what was discussed here years ago in which, that person is not a cam model nor a sex worker, who got berated by people who judged and subjectively argued while dismissing them because they did not wish to read the writing on the wall and were biased because they didn't wish to read someone.


I certainly hope he enlightens everyone here and see how a non sex worker got it right while others were busy trying to silence others rights to voice their thoughts.

Some here used to say it all was about him him him, if you read a thread elsewhere the evidence and proof is who it really is all about.

I was saddened while I read that thread. There is a time when a person feels vindicated and satisfied, yet for that person, it is all bittersweet.

How fucking pathetic, it is at times.

Take care.......

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#4 [url]

Jul 26 11 12:05 PM

Well Trainer as to who had the rights and wrongs of it when..I would invite people to re-read the topics in this section.."Where is this industry headed? - The Perfect Storm" from last March where I wrote the following comments about illegal practices on MFC that threaten to bring down the entire industry as soon as some enterprising DA or AG gets busy...

QUOTE

So what are we seeing?

First, lots of hard sex shows in open rooms involving cum-shows, Dildo insertions, fisting all performed for tips. This is a legal problem since any underage web-surfer can see them. Now this practice is being adopted by other web-sites for example Streamate and Naked.com as we can read in this post.

Second, we are seeing more and more "dates" in real time being raffled off for tokens.

We don't know what these "dates" actually involve - many may actually be a "bait and switch" where members don't get what they expect - but it appears that some at least are actually solicitation for real sex acts exchanged for money. This is again a legal minefield, if it even seems like the cam sites are stepping in to fill the void left by the suppression of the "adult services" pages on Craigslist.

Third we now have good evidence that the Filipina studios are not only using under age models as young as fifteen but that some of them have been trafficked into cyber sex.

As I have already noted here and on SW that The BBC has now linked Philippine web-cam studios that are "content providers" for overseas sex chat web-sites to the sex trafficking of under-age girls. I want to thank ReAsse for calling this to my attention.

This fits perfectly the "smoking gun" linking the web-cam industry to the sex trafficking of under-age girls that many of the enemies of the on-line porn industry on the Christian Right and among the "authoritarian feminists" have been long searching for. Please note that these girls were rescued during a police raid on a "cyber-sex den."

Anybody "wanna" take bets that one of the websites in question might not be The Asian Homepage on MFC? If so, this is truly a "run-away train" now headed your way.

We must ask how many - if any - might have appeared on MFC Asian Homepage. I know of at least one Filipina model on MFC who told us here that she started work at fifteen - but she couldn't wait to get going so in her case her involvement in cybersex camming was strictly voluntary..

But in any case, we seem to have evidence of teens watching other teens doing hard sex shows in an open room - and "dates" that seem to involve actual acts of prostitution. And all of this is tied up in a single package with a nice neat bow on one of the major web-sites - MFC.

This seems to the "smoking gun" that many abolitionists have been long waiting for. And it's now "cocked and loaded," and pointed straight at MFC and potentially the entire web-cam industry. Maybe something ought to be done to get Leo to clean up his act on MFC so as to exclude any underage models and the solicitation for "dates". And do it before he brings every Christian and Feminist "abolitionist" down on the head of every cam-model and cam site based in the United States.



Also take a l look at what said there two and three years ago in the topic "An Open Room as a Sexual Auction" in Sexual Tourism from 2009 or what our members wrote about Free Shows here:
http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.p...=ST&f=31&t=1335
- not to mention some of my last posts from 2010 in "Why I am not okay with this" in About us....
http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.p...st=0#entry10496

QUOTE

here are many more models on sites like MFC - which now claims to have 100,000 models registered on their site - and much more competition.

This increased competition has resulted in a revolution in how most models work on that site and sites that imitate it by allowing tipping.

Most of the popular models spend a large part of their shift working nude in their open room and offering hard sex shows in free for tips....The shows in the open rooms are no longer just "teasers" but the real deal - anal penetration, cum shows with dildos - performed for an audience that can number in the hundreds - with many on-lookers watching as free riders..So the definition of a model job description have moved from "Live Chat hostess" to online "peep show girl" in a matter of a couple of years.

The old way of working a room was described by the web-master from F4F as inciting a "client frenzy" and it described a model who was doing a show involving hot chat and some flashing to excite a room full of horny guys to the point where ONE of them would decide to take her away from all of this by taking her private.. To some degree a skillful model was very much in charge of what happened in her room and how much she had to perform "in free" to "incite" the necessary degree of lust in her clientele.

But today on MFC the center of power seems to have shifted to the "premium members lounge'" where the senior members receive and send news flashes about which girl is doing what kind of hard show, and the "member pack" gets sent off to the appropriate room with their tips massed in kind of "token wave" that can rain down cash on some lucky model.. or be withheld, dis-invested and then re-invested in another room.

This kind of "member traffic control" puts the established models at a disadvantage because the newbies can capture their traffic, if they are ready to escalate their show with more extreme content... This gives new girls who are ready to break the rules a competitive edge that dictates the new standard for performances that everyone must meet if they are to stay in the game..I know of established MFC models who have quit the site because they couldn't take the pressure.

But if we want to really discuss how members decide what models to take private this is a much more realistic starting point..i.e. first by understanding that many members will never pay to take a model private again - they would rather wait for a free show in an open room paid for with some other member's tips, or for the video release of her "hot private" on some pirate forum or web-cam "Tube Site." As a result, a girl's ability to meet her daily financial goal is no longer measured in the number of minutes she spends with members in private shows - rather it's reckoned by the total number of tokens that she can gather in the form of tips.

And second, members are not making an individual choice about the models they see - instead they are moving in "packs" from room to room in response to signals they are getting from "command central" - that is the Premium Members Lounge. So don't think client consumption of sex shows in terms of a individual transaction between model and member - rather think of her as the target of a "member swarm" in her open room.



I also think we were pretty much on the money when we described the industry's alliances with the studio pimps in Colombia, The Phillipines and the Ukraine:
http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=2838 and in this description of how the global industry is divided into "free and unfree" labor sectors which are put into competition with each other on the cam-websites.
UL
QUOTE

If you start to look at this global industry from the vantage point of North America or the UK what leaps our at you is the fact that the market is "owned" by women who are independent entrepreneurs, who manage their own time, define their own business model and marketing strategy and keep most of the money they earn. However if you look at from the Global South or Global East then a whole different picture emerges - so different that it's like describing "a whole other profession" in terms of pay, working conditions and above all else, personal autonomy in the workplace. One is a post modern form for sex work that's very entrepreneurial, managed by and for women and the other is a semi-industrial corporate setting, again managed by women, but for companies where men are the "big studio bosses" - usually because they have heavy political connections within national economies based on a form of "crony capitalism." This is what the French would call "Le Capitalisme du Mafia et du Cul"

What I think that our little research project on CGN has established after 5 years of effort is that some big and medium sized web-cam content providers, companies like, Streamate, Vivid (f4f); *keepshows*; Private Feeds, Secret Friends, 2Lips - and to a lesser extent ImLive and MFC - rely heavily on their partnerships with studio owners in the Colombia Central and Eastern Europe, The Philippines, Russia and The Ukraine who act as subcontractors to recruit and manage most of the models that appear on those web-sites. This is even more true of the European cam sites like Euro-live, XLoveCam and many of the Belgian, Dutch, German, Italian and Spanish live cam sites. To a great extent the Eastern European studios - especially the Romanians but also the Russians and Ukrainians - "own" this Euro-market. And when they don't, immigrants from those countries make up the bulk of the work-force in the Dutch, Italian and Spanish studios located in Western Europe. The number of studios is in the thousands and the number of cam-girls in their employ must number in the tens of thousands (20-40,000 in Romania alone). These studios and their employees are very important "live content" providers for the global industry of which American and British models are a part.

It's interesting to note that MFC is reluctant to sign on Romanian models and independents and prefers to stick with its Studio sub-contractors which are owned by male web-pimps- what the Romanians call the "peste." This is what we were told by Sweet_October years ago about PF's refusal to hire independent cam models who were "free agents." Perhaps this is a way to keep the mix of "free and unfree" labor competing against each other on MFC's web-site? Of course this is equally true of F4F, LJ, Peeks, PF, SF or SM. This competition between workers with unequal access to information and different degrees of bargaining strength now appears to be a structural feature that's true across the entire industry.

There are other countries in this world where that idea that women can be so empowered by new technology that they can capture most of market and take for themselves the lion's share of the industry's profits, will simply not be tolerated by the Mafia/KGB alliance in power. And those are the same places where the Western web-content providers (web-pimps) have found some of their best partners as well as most of their "product." Their decision to "off-shore" much of their content production was not a simply as matter of economics, but also a preference for corrupt and repressive regimes as business partners.


BigMir.Ru: Photo of a Ukrainian student and studio model arrested by the Anti-Trafficking Unit of the Ukrainian Militia during a Studio raid in Kyif in October 2006.
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"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#5 [url]

Jul 26 11 4:04 PM

cool.gif
But there are model writers like Bambalina or BxxxGxxx on Stripper Web who have developed similar lines of argument which we have re-posted here regularly...when they didn't post them here for themselves.lol

And even if I don't hold out much hope for Bambalina's chances of organizing and independent cam site that's run for and by independent cam models, in competition with MFC, she just gets better and better at describing the legal and economic binds that many independent models on MFC or SM and now PF find themselves in - a nightmare of a "catch22" situation that's increasingly becoming the standard business model for the entire industry

Take a look at this recent post by her from Stripper Web by BAMB that's as passionate as it is brilliant :
UL

QUOTE

Bambalina
Featured Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: We travel for a living...

Re: Make *MFC*s Follow the RULES!
QUOTE
:
Originally Posted by Fxxxx
Bamb, there are 2 things that I am curious what you will say about
1. if MFC says " ok, we will change the rules.. the new rule is :there is no rule!" then what? no one can complain about not making $$ there or anywhere because of how MFC does business...
2. Not long ago and I assume currently too, you were (are ) in the process of creating your website and you were (are) inviting us to join it. And you were (are) asking us to maybe, possibly "steal" customers from any sites that we can.. including and recommended MFC ( since there are no rules there)...
Im confused... why the petition now?


Great questions!

1. If I am correct (and I'm telling you guys, I am) MFC CANNOT say there is no rules.

See the law is vague, and very new as far as sites like MFC go. MFC is counting on the fact that the law slightly favors them right now.

How?

Well, if MFC makes a rule that says Hardcore sexual action in public is absolutely forbidden. And they can show at least a FEW times they have enforced it or fined models or given out suspensions (and they have, in spates, 2 or 3 different times), then MFC can declare they are doing what they can to stop the independent contractors who use their system as a conduit from doing anything illegal, and that makes the GIRLS responsible for breaking the law.

If you are on MFC, you signed a contract promising to abide by the rules and keep it legal for minors. If you break that contract the law enforcement will come down on YOU.

So, at this moment, MFC is *pretty* safe from being raided and taken down, and the girls are in imminent danger of being arrested, since MFC has your info and will be forced to provide it to law enforcement. And the funny thing is, for you ladies who do shows in free? They very likely could have ALREADY recorded the evidence against you. Interesting....

NOW...MFC removes ALL rules and says "Go for it girls, we are ALLOWING you to do illegal things on our site in front of minors since we have no blocking"

Guess who is THEN responsible legally? Guess how long MFC stays up with those rules? I wouldn't bet on 2 weeks.

So, short answer...they CANNOT make there be NO rules or they then are breaking the law when you shove a champagne bottle in yer butt in free chat in front of little johnny.

The phone company doesn't go to jail when you make a drug deal on the phone...They didn't break the law...a User did....

This forum doesn't get raided and shut down because 2 users traded child porn in the private messages.

4chan is still there, and motherless.com is still there, because they are not directly responsible for the actions of their users, so long as they attempt to moderate and remove illegal content.

MFC, same deal...You PROMISED nothing overly sexual in free chat, and when you break that promise, YOU break the law. You are NOT an employee! You are an INDEPENDENT contractor.

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2. I'm creating websites where you are invited to steal as many customers as you'd like. Why? Because I don't make a percentage of your income for the life of your time on my sites.

I will get paid by you monthly to provide you with webcam hungry traffic. The more of you that sign up and the more of you that pay me, the more traffic I will provide. If you can get the site to have 10k girls paying an average of $25 per month, I will be pulling in $250k per month and GUARANTEEing you all $50k will go, every month to promotion. links, buying traffic and every other form of bringing you customers I can do. And if I do my job you can make THOUSANDS per month, and I only get $25 of it..EVER, no matter how much you make.

It's gonna be REAL REAL hard to get 10k girls. But it shouldn't be too hard to get 200, and I can do a WHOLE LOT of promotion with the $1000 per month and just a little co-operation from you ladies.

So, if my business model is viable...and I can do well with it, and you can do well with it. Why the FUCK would any of you accept so much less? 65% of your money...every dollar forever...taken from you...SM...who then owns ALL your content...

I want to own NONE of your content...I will however ask you for content to use for promotion, and it will be LABELED with YOUR URL and how to see YOU if you give it to me...And you can ALWAYS opt out and NOT provide me with promo stuff...your loss in that sense...

Because I want everyone to WIN, not Bambalina wins and the girls all lose.

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So you all kinda know that argument from me already, right?

There is no such thing as stealing customers from a camsite. If the camsite cannot pay you a fair wage enough to keep you and the customer there, they are OBVIOUSLY not doing their job.

You do as much work or more to gain the customer, seduce the customer, keep the customer, yet according to the camsite you OWN no RIGHTS at ALL to the customer, and telling them your twitter address is "STEALING"...Ridiculous on every level.

Do any of you actually spend major amounts of time "stealing customers" from AW? If so, I bet the number is still MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH lower than those who "steal" from MFC, and THAT number is hugely lower than those who "steal" from SM. The less the pay, the more unfair the conditions, the greater impetus to move customers to higher paying venues. Right? It's obvious.

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Now, all that being said yet again...

Free shows on MFC are KILLING camming. Let me repeat this and read my virtual lips (fingertips as they type)...

Free shows of full insertion and masturbation are DESTROYING camming and in a few years, if not stopped, will make this job a stupid low paying shit job that ONLY eastern bloc/asian/south american studios will do.

So, no matter how much I like you personally, if you do those shows, you are cutting your own throat for money today by destroying the possibility of money in the future, and you are the enemy of all savvy camgirls everywhere.

Before you argue...Lets look at it...MFC does this and MFC is without doubt one of the hardest camsites to do well at...only certain types of girls with a certain types of hustle do really well there...or girls who do the free shows for hundreds of guys and get paid by a few out of every hundred in their room and thus make money by getting HUGE crowds.

This makes for HUGE crowds of men who CUM at your insertion/masturbation show. All of those men are potential customers, and I know for a damn fact, because I research it and watch traffic, that a LOT of guys sitting in Candy Cane's damn Lesbo Shower show at the end of the month, are TIPPERS, and guys who USED to take girls I worked with PRIVATE..and now don't show up and do that, but show up at free insertion shows instead. And get off for free...cuz WHY SHOULD THEY PAY!?

Now, lets look at step 2 of the destruction of camming.

You have SM, which was a shithole who pays 35%, but the shithole was greedy and never allowed ANYTHING in free chat. Right? And everyone made BANK there and there was WAY less freeloaders.

Now SM, comepletely because they have to compete with MFC allows penetration/masturbation/close-up pussy shows and doesn't fine/suspend/ban anymore really...and also has them popping up on sites for FREE as promotion.

So, once the 3 biggest cam sites have it, how long do you ladies think it will be before ALL camsites have to allow it or guys won't come?

And then add in...How many customers has MFC "stolen" from sites that don't allow sexual conduct in free chat? And now how many is SM "stealing"?

This can only lead to more sites with more and more free content and sexual stuff on them, and camming turning extremely more and more aggressive and sexual, and then a republican gets in office and the BUSTS start to shower down on GIRLS and they are going to jail.

Tell me this isn't leading to the death of camming as we know it...and in no way leading to something better, and ONLY leading to (at the very least) something worse. And the MEN who own these sites don't care, since they are millionaires many times over, and make money off your content forever even after the camsites are gone.

Do you realize that MFC and SM gather over 1000 hours of FREE hardcore privates and shows and such PER DAY, and own the rights to sell them forever?? To put up tube sites run totally by advertising and use YOU fucking yourself as the content??

You guys are in the middle of a nightmare and you don't realize it, because it still pays better than working as a waitress...but your evil overlords are making MILLIONS off you and plan to make millions off YOU even after these sites go the way of the fucking dodo bird.

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So keep stealing custies from MFC...we don't want to shut MFC down, we want to make MFC be responsible and protect camming for the damn future.

We want to protect camgirls from prosecution, since once that starts it will NEVER end up good for any of us.

We want to make these pricks take responsibility for the shit they put in the world, since they get the benefit of the MILLIONS of dollars.

B

And then this post from Bamb where she raises the issue of "trafficking" in the studios and the competition of free and unfree labor on MFC, SM, etc.
QUOTE


QUOTE

besides, look at the top girls- crazysysy, tattgoddess, empruss69 etc etc...THEY arent breaking any rules, they hardly show anything in public yet they are banking. now, look on page 3 where there are plenty of girls breaking the rules- they are obviously making $50 a day.


Its funny but quote a few of the top girls from foreign countries, and some of the top studio girls, DON'T do public shows. In fact, I see WAY more trouble with the Western Girls.

It is also true what you say, to some degree about page 3. Which is one of the proofs of what I am saying. It started out that poorer studio girls did whatever they had to to compete, since they are beaten and punished and sent home broke if they don't make their quotas and such. MFC and SM completely support that system (SM moreso than MFC to a degree) and thus by working for them, you help them support that, but that is not the topic for today...So...Anyway...The Free Shows practice never moved to the foreign models who BANK too much. It moved to the poorer of OUR (American, Australian, Canadian, Brit) girls, and a few of them went from 260th ranked on MFC, to top 40, and learned that you can bank by completely fucking off the rules and screwing all the girls following the rules. At that time, MFC even made some half-hearted attempts to ban and fine girls...But since the money was rolling in, they didn't try too hard.

Well, it was strange, but just about that time (look it up here on StripperWeb in Otherwork) the complaints of money dropping and it getting harder to make money ROSE dramatically...

Over the next year a LARGE number of models started doing Masturbation/Insertion shows. And funny...if you look at the stats, and look at the money and especially look at any forum where camgirls speak, it was at EXACTLY that time that everyone started REALLY talking about the money dropping and being harder to come by.

Now, do you want to argue with this, which is FACT? That money went down as free shows went up?? Why would you want to argue that?

Either way, it is a provable thing. Just go look at the archives here. MFC also, at that time, went from the absolute darling of SW that could do no wrong, to being complained about and treated like an inconprehensible place where making money was almost impossible and you needed a secret key to understand and crack MFC.

Well, I am in the BEST position to know tat is pretty true, because I had girls on MFC 2-3 years ago and have had girls on MFC ever since, So I have watched the difficulty of getting started, the pressure for more and more stuff in free chat increase, and the number of privates and the ease with which they are offered, as well as the number and ratio of tippers to non-tippers STEADILY decrease. All during the time of the "Free Show".

But I also saw the populations of those free show rooms rising and rising, as some of the BIGGEST names on MFC did those shows and sometimes 3 and 4 thousand men would be there....3000 men getting off all at once and spending NO MORE MONEY on MFC.

Tell me that is GOOD for our business and we just have to change our hustle to fix it...those 3 or 4 thousand men had an orgasm and are done. You won;t have a CHANCE to hustle them. It's over. And it happens DAILY. So what the hell do you guys think that does for camming? Thousands and thousands of potential customers cum for free every day from these shows.

This isn't about personal freedom. This isn't about hating on the girls who DO those shows, because I am VERY good friends with a few who do them on this very discussion. I do not judge or condemn them, because I am not a judge. ALL I am saying is that it is in everyone's best interests to stop it. To put the Genie back in the bottle, and it CAN be done because there is a contract that every one of you has a right to sue MFC over. Every one of you has a right to not be forced into an environment where the contract you signed has rules that are FLAUNTED daily by the company. Every one of you has a right to reasonable expectation of protection from minors being exposed to fuck machines and lesbian shows on the site you perform on.
Do you honestly disagree with that???


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"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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bambalina

Very Talkative

Posts: 45

#6 [url]

Jul 26 11 10:52 PM

Two quick things...

First and foremost, I believe this to be a watershed moment in camming. Since I am going to pound the media with this topic in every way I can think of.

Camming needs to be fixed.

Secondly, my Collective is going well and I have over 50 women pledged.

We all agree there will be no studios, unless said studio is willing to provide proof they pay their girls at least 50% of all money received. Probably will never happen, eh?

We will have the RULES of MFC and we will follow them to the letter. Nudity ok, hardcore absolutely NOT.

We will of course do everything we can to block minors from being there.

This is going to be the socially conscious camsite designed for women to BANK, and men to have fun and be almost like Cheers...that is what we are ALL hoping for.

There ya go,
B

PS. I believe that a camsite designed for interaction and to alleviate loneliness from the male customers, and for actual friendships and such to be the norm, would FLOURISH...Tittilating and sexy, not dirty and sleazy...Burlesque and old-fashioned stripper, not poledancing lapdancing facedancing, extras chick blowing you in the parking lot outside the club...

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#7 [url]

Jul 27 11 1:16 PM

Welcome back Bambalina...and thanks for your posts...I especially appreciated your recognition of the problems posed by those studio models in BelaRus, Colombia, the Phillipines, Russia and the Ukraine who may be subject to differing degrees of "duress"...

QUOTE

It started out that poorer studio girls did whatever they had to to compete, since they are beaten and punished and sent home broke if they don't make their quotas and such. MFC and SM completely support that system (SM moreso than MFC to a degree) and thus by working for them, you help them support that, but that is not the topic for today...So...Anyway...The Free Shows practice never moved to the foreign models who BANK too much. It moved to the poorer of OUR (American, Australian, Canadian, Brit) girls, and a few of them went from 260th ranked on MFC, to top 40, and learned that you can bank by completely fucking off the rules and screwing all the girls following the rules. At that time, MFC even made some half-hearted attempts to ban and fine girls...But since the money was rolling in, they didn't try too hard.


But we must be careful about making those kinds of claims about the large number of studio models from Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania or Slovakia where the studios are legal and run by professional management....And where many models go independent as soon as they can..
UL
Photo: Room in the AVC Studio in Bucharest - one of the biggest suppliers of models on DS, MFC and PF .
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"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#8 [url]

Jul 29 11 2:01 PM

Somebody else finally noticed the function of The Lounge for premium members. on MFC. The central HQ for pirates and observation post for free-riders...
UL

QUOTE

Posted: Yesterday, 11:01 PM #1
MzXxxx
Veteran Member

Joined: Jun 2011

Duh A nasty dirty Whore House....with a nice alley to get free pussy.

Let's just face it .
Leo's a Slum Lord!!!!!
and MFC is the Slum!

Too cheap to hire mods.
Too cheap to hire programmers.
Too cheap to buy better servers.
Too cheap to alter the site.


We need to realize what we are doing.

These guys are like Yea! finally, what WE want .

A nasty dirty Whore House....with a nice alley to get free pussy.

Dont Believe me ? Visit the Lounge!



QUOTE

TeenxxxXxxxx
Member

Joined: May 2011

Re: Make *MFC*s Follow the RULES!

hey girls.

so today i am ashamed to admit that i broke the mfc rules.
i did a dildo show in public

well never again.
im going to stick to privates/groups and getting tips for dancing topless.

why? well it took hours to get the tip amount required '3000' and then when i started i only got '200' worth of tips to keep going. said tips will make the show go on. but they just bombarded me with requests and told me to 'cum'. how can i cum if theyre not going to tip me and im not even horny

well its not like i didnt earn the 3200 tokens cause i danced topless/naked for like 3 hours and chatted to them and shaked my boobies and stuff. so why should i continue if theyre not gonna keep tipping

anyway before today i only did groups/privates and i earned at least 1000 tokens per group show which lasted about 5-10minutes and then in privates id make like 2000 for 10 minutes from voyuers and shit. and then id log out after 4 hours with 7000 tokens in my pocket. and today when i "succumed" to the requests for public countdown shows i went home with 3200 for 5 hours work and feeling a little degraded and worthless tbh.

wow public shows suck and defo not for me

thought i would share since this thread was about public shows and shit.

tnx

edit: oh id just like to add that usually i have around 200 ppl in my room when just topless. but today when i got my kitty out there were like 600 in the room suddenly. LOL its like some alarm bell rings letting guys know when a pussy is on display for free



And now Bambalina's reply to these two posts....
QUOTE

MzXxx:
See, I think the free shows are worse. While I see somewhat of a decrease in frequency from some of the top 20 girls, I also am seeing that since QUITE a FEW of the top 50/100 girls bank using the shows (try watching on the 14th, 15th, 30th and 31st of the month...especially as midnight draws near....dayum!) that MANY MANY lower row girls are doing many more free shows, and worse yet, the girls on page 2 and 3, do the shows for nothing just to draw guys.

The lounge used to be where guys would go to relax and chat, and they would point out interesting cam shows and such ("Oh she has a pole..." or "Countdown to shower show, down to 100!!" or "XXX_XXXXXX is doing a HOT GROUP!") and most of it led to women actually getting more money.

The lounge now...horrendous and ALL about what girl is providing what show for FREE and they all decent like locusts about to eat the farm dry. It makes me sad and ashamed and piteous for the girl who has no idea she has literally been treated WORSE than a piece of meat...

"Hitachi is out!!!! Let's get some FREE pussy!" and such...as well as stuff like "She's a fat bitch, but she's gonna fuck herself!!" and the like....If you have a member account (and you ALL should if yer on MFC) go and just watch and read for 30 minutes...The lounge used to be able to be used to make bank, now it just brings vultures generally...even the upper echelon Lounge (yes there is another one...) which is for big tippers ONLY, is now filled with guys who are sick of spending and want it free.

But the rest of what you say, I pretty much agree with...All the signs of demise are there, and I bet we don't make it 6 months without a State's Attorney getting involved...



How Cam-models are advertised to Web-master affiliates and their "custies." In this case by ImLive..but it could be any of the major camsites..And indeed MFC is even worse since they attract web-surfers by advertizing the free shows given in the open rooms..
http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=2817
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"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#9 [url]

Jul 29 11 2:34 PM

cool.gif Yet another informed comment.. of course I won't add: "We told you so..two years ago." I will leave that for Trainer..lol
UL

QUOTE

redacted
Curious Guest


Joined: Jul 2011

Re: Make *MFC*s Follow the RULES! R

Longtime SW lurker. Sorry my first post is so rambly but I have to get this out.

For me, the most important thing to take away from this discussion, is that camgirls who do public cum shows are giving away their most valuable product for FREE. Can you imagine Disneyland opening the gates and letting everyone in because "5 people had paid enough to see the show" and they're "making enough"? It will never happen, because it's just bad business. Disneyland knows that they've got what you want and you and every single damn man, woman, and child will pay to see it. They also know that if they were to devalue themselves like that, the public would mentally devalue them as well.

You can cite the record industry and the porn industry all you want but guess what? WE are the ones with the control in this situation. Totally different beast. No one, not even Leo, is standing over me telling me what I "have" to do on cam. You and I make that decision every day, which is what this thread is about! There is talk about the recession and the camming recession specifically - well gee, what happened to camming approximately two years ago? A sudden surge in free public shows? Coincidence? Lots of other public sectors are on the upswing again, wonder why camming still sucks so hard?

Again, our industry is dying right in front of your eyes, some of you are even pulling the trigger and wondering why you're making less money at the same time. Oh right, it's that pesky economy. Has nothing to do with the cost of watching a live girl cum (a beautiful and should-be-rare-and-valuable commodity) being reduced to ZERO AS IN ZILCH dollars. And I hate to break it to you, but a guy who has just shot his wad all over a top 20 cum show queen, maybe several in a row, WITHOUT PAYING A DIME isn't gonna stagger into your room and drop mega tokens on you, it ain't gonna happen, because he has no incentive to become a member and buy tokens because ... why would he? Think it through! He's gonna wipe himself off with a dirty sock, roll over, and go to sleep!

As for the argument that you can make more money in less time by doing public shows? Um yeah, how long does it take you to clear your countdown? There are an elite few who zip through their countdowns quickly, the rest struggle. Go search any of the MFC threads and find girls spending HOURS trying to meet their goals, slashing their countdowns in half, abandoning their countdowns altogether. Hell, go to every other camgirl forum and search the same keywords. Topic after topic about strategies to get guys to tip better, faster, new angle, what am I doing wrong?! Why? Because guys don't want to wait around for your sorry ass. Why would they? When 50 other girls are fucking themselves for free RIGHT NOW.

Here is a breakdown of the type of guys I've run into on MFC:

Guys who tip in public "just because"
Guys who tip in public toward a countdown or a show
Guys who never tip, like ever, and are proud of it
Guys who take girls private
Guys who will never go private but like groups
Guys who will never go private or group but perv on privates
Guys who wanna skype/buy videos/panties, etc.


Different girls have different hustles, and will be pulling revenue streams from different demographics. Which is good! My money mainly comes from tips in public for nothing, groups, and privates. You might have more group guys, you might have more just because tips, you might sell tons of videos, it's all good. I know I'm alienating an entire group of guys by not doing public shows, but I dont cry over these fellows, they are the cheapest, most fickle of the bunch and their numbers will get more and more scares as a great number of them morph into the kind of guys who sit in the lounge waiting for the next free show and NEVER TIP.

But guys in this last group could SO easily be turned into better customers. It seems like all they want to do is watch a girl cum, so why aren't they on a tube site? Why are they even on a cam site? Because they're lonely, theyre starved for affection, and they're socially retarded. Pretty much the easiest pickings in the world. Pretty much putty in the hands of a camgirl if she had the opportunity to spend time with them and draw in MORE revenue for herself AND MFC if there wasn't the distraction of row after row of girls fucking themselves silly in public. But once that service has been devalued, it's hard to convince people it's worth anything anymore - we're on a very slippery slope here. I feel torn - I'm not competing directly with these girls because I personally will never do it, but by the very fact that they're devaluing THEIR product, it subtly and silently devalues mine (in the eyes of the consumer).

The only benefit to offering ANYTHING free in public is the hope of converting free members to paying members because there is something they CANNOT SEE in public. This is the beauty of MFC's business model - luring in lonely (but cheap) guys who would never sign up for a pay site, betting on them becoming so enthralled with the camgirl that they simply must purchase tokens to see MORE. But it will only work if there is actually an incentive, a "MORE", in place. I still make good money, but I would be an idiot to believe that I wouldnt be making MUCH MORE, and so would EVERY OTHER GIRL ON THE SITE, if it was impossible to watch a girl climax in public. I don't want MFC to get shut down (they won't), I don't want anyone to lose money, but I wish girls would wake up and start realizing their own worth - and not confuse "going with the flow" with "forgetting their power"....


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"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#10 [url]

Jul 29 11 10:49 PM

Well thank you Uncle, I am still searching for the specific post of your opening remark previously but I shall oblige everyone here, just because.

Look here:

http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=936

Oh damn, look at the date.... 2008.

Or here:

http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=1335

Hmmm... 2009.

and here:

http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=1220

I still can't find the exact post and honestly I don't care to now. I believe it was about the time Uncle mentioned the tipping feature(how long ago was that hmm).

Someone asked and then described the results of what could happen with the creation of tipping on MFC when it was first started. Then that person described how the masses will all want freebies and choose to take the cheaper route.

It was at a time when all the established veteran cam hostesses were doing quite well on MFC prior to the "tipping" feature. But soon those models left for the most part because they were able to predict and see that it was not for them. That it would harm their bottom line and that the competition would skyrocket.

Then some of my friends and acquaintances I knew began to complain a year later that they noticed a decrease in their traffic and paying customers on "other sites they work on".

One told me that a regular said to them, "why pay you for a private when I can go on MFC and tip for half that amount or even get stuff for free.

Well someone here also hinted,alluded, and warned that you should never give away the milk for free. On and On.

Someone also told you gals to tell your colleagues to stop providing shows in free chat for tips because it will cross a boundary or point of no return, but most of you were too busy being judgemental.

On and On. You reap what you sow now.

Bambalina, in that thread on sw I clearly understood where you are coming from and you even wrote in a similar ideology of someone here(guess who the f that could be).

But really, do you think top models like Amber cutie, Tata_Latina,Agent 99, Jaylyn, Danie Marie, and the list goes on, with the inclusion of the 3rd page girls are going to stop doing shows in free?

How about all those special new toys and countdowns that the models employ to make bank, and then give the show after their goal is achieved? You think that there won't be 1000 cheap lonely wankers seeking free content after the super exclusive premiums have paid their end of the business exchange?

And if I may ask with all due respect, How interesting it is that you describe members as lonely people, I think a better description would be:

All those addicted, perverted wankers, who are bored and decide to view naked women to fill the emptiness in their pathetic lives perhaps. As most models would and a few ex mods here would say they are nothing but fucking fodder,eh.

But I digress, capitalism at its worst has made its entrance.

Good luck.

P.S.- Perhaps those free shows on MFC are the private shows of the model on another website. Just free advertising for them.

Hey btw- I noticed tips on another website went into effect this month. I watched a few members ask the models(MFC style, "How much tips for boobs?") And so it begins or continues.

P.P.S.- One mo thing, a top model who you have discussed about in great length on another forum, said this to her adoring fan base:

"Why should I do privates? Tips for shows in free chat is her way to build up to the ultimate orgasm. Going private often would make her feel like a robot, and would defeat the purpose of her attaining orgasm."

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#11 [url]

Jul 30 11 10:29 PM

Well Trainer, Bamb, UL etc..
Here's an snappy answer that will set you back on your heels.
EB

QUOTE


xfatxxxxxx
Veteran Member

Joined: Aug 2006

Re: A nasty dirty Whore House....with a nice alley to get free pussy.

QUOTE

Originally Posted by MzStar View Post
Hey I dont hate it .....
Kinda glad its there! lol......
I plan on making a comeback after the summer break!.
I was just making an Analogy .
So people might realize , and maybe understand.


If i was Leo I wouldn't let you come back. How are you gonna make such defamatory statements then say well i'm planning on making a come back there? lol
See I don't even really do public toy shows, but do get nude and play around in public but still i didn't sign that petition because that'd make me a hypocrite. If you guys hate MFC so much,like buffy said...then why do you guys keep making them money. Why would you work for someone who you believe is a slum lord and operates their website as if it was a dirty whorehouse with alleys to free pussy? What's that say about you? Even worse, you're the ones that are ruining the industry because you dont like what you do, or a certain site, so you don't make money, so you resort to giving it away. This isnt all targeted at you, more of a generalization of everything that's going on now.

If i'm on mfc and im not making money (which doesnt happen too often), i log off. I don't sit there and start compromising my boundaries one by one only to still not make money and get pissed and blame the top girls because you just shoved a dildo in your pussy and didn't make shit. If you're not making money on MFC it's your fault. I mean the industry is the way it is, and it sucks, but the odds of the change that you're looking for looks pretty slim. The people in MFC don't make all their money just because of dildo shows. Watch the top girls, most of the time they get tipped when they're talking and fully clothed. So it's not these girls, all though they may play a lil factor, but you can't blame them if it's starting to be the norm there. MFC took me a long time to figure out but I worked so hard at it and 6 months later i'm making money i could have never dreamed of. I didn't build my fan base because I did all these crazy shows, I built them by months of talking, and just cultivating regulars. Lately a lot of times I don't even do any show and just talk, and my earnings haven't decreased noticeably. Have i done public cum shows with toys? Yeah i have, not on a daily basis, but shit if someone comes in my room and dropped 4000 tokens just like that to see me cum... sorry, call me a money hungry whore... but that tip most likely put me in a great mood so i have no problem showing my gratitude. 200 dollars made in 1 minute plus other tips on top of that from others...Come on.... i know the majority of you would do one dildo show in public for 10 minutes if it meant getting 200-400 dollars. Don't say i'm lying, i've seen a lot of you...the ones who are complaining about mfc the most, do it for a lot less.

Lately this board just sucks to come to, especially if you work on MFC, and are successful on there. I feel like you guys are all hating on people who do well there and are blaming us. Take some of the blame yourself, maybe your hustle just aint all that. I'm all for you guys trying to make changes, the petition, the girl power week thing..coool...Ill do my best to participate, but this excessive bashing, without even a point to it or a solution is just not helping anything.

If you don't like it, don't work there... more money for me
And before someone comes in here and cherry picks every single detail to argue on why mfc is the bane of all existence, don't bother... i dont give a shit
sorry for the hostility, i just miss stripperweb. this has turned into mfc and each other bashing


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bambalina

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Posts: 45

#12 [url]

Aug 5 11 4:05 AM

So, you guys can discuss this back and forth. And I don't hold any of that against you.

I believe at least some of you have a truly good motive. Others are obvious white knights who believe "us women" need saving from Leo, and MFC and SM and ourselves.

Most of what I read on here lies somewhat in between. But there is no way that even those with the purest of motives, and a penis, can do that much to help, because it has been established that enough white knights DO want to save us from ourselves and the evil men who "control us" that women are now very very wary.

See this post which caused me no end of trouble on MFC, and realize that she is a reader here and knows what goes on.

QUOTE (r**st on SW @ on 08-01-2011, 02:06 PM )


Part of the reason I use the white knights analogy is that pretty much most of what Bambalina is saying here is being cheered by the CGN anti-cam-crusaders/white knights/anti-feminist/obsessive readers of Cam Girl Notes/ CGN who is a decent chunk of the reason why we even needed to create a Camming Connection section to keep them out from participating. Given the fallout of the handful of times CGU mods (*not* CoolBreeze, he actually does not think we're stupid) have tried posting on our forums, its really telling that they're one of B's biggest backers.

They will copy and paste most of what is written here, dissect it, debate it, comment on how camgirls 'finally get it', post the most random pics of naked camgirls and women, and cheer Bambalina (not a cam model) on. I barely see any cam girls in those threads period.

We're referenced there pretty heavily pretty much daily... so yes, customers and freeloaders watch these threads like hawks.

So to echo Noa and echo earlier sentiments: work with the models themselves, this white knight crap is so tired, I am so over being told what to do and how to do it and being taught about my own industry by people who have never been in it or sat through a multi-hour cam shift. Similarly the shepherd to new pastures analogy was accurate


I find it seriously annoying that I get lumped in with you guys, who are ok, and who I don;t see as much threat or bad trip, but who in essence do more to harm your own cause often by not allowing the WOMEN who are the ones who are the center of this to LEAD the entire thing.

Male Egos are a bitch boys...you need to allow yourselves to take a backseat and let women lead the charge. Also, instead of sitting here on an insular site talking like a boys club, ask women what you CAN do, and DO IT.

B

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bambalina

Very Talkative

Posts: 45

#13 [url]

Aug 5 11 4:11 AM

By the way...My reply...

QUOTE

I cannot help who enjoys my writing, who hates my writing, and why people want to oppose or follow me. I actually got BANNED from CGN's Model section...I have repeatedly insulted them for the way they do things. They read this, and I don't care if they feel insulted again. But they like that I bring up the SHIT that everyone else is afraid to discuss openly. And they re-post it. That has NOTHING to do with ME. And to insult me because people who are "white-knights" are fans of my writing is petty and childish.


B

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#14 [url]

Aug 5 11 11:27 AM

cool.gif Hey Bamb I am sorry that you got this hostile feedback on SW because of our re-post of your essays.. But then again, this comment came from Roast, and she has a nasty bug up her ass about CGN generally and chip on her shoulder about UL in particular... So what she said does not surprise me in the least - nor should it you..I would ignore her on the topic of White Knightism on CGN - even though she's a good writer on many other issues. In any case, I doubt that many SW models read us or are bothered much by what we post. We have a different audience here - mainly made up either of MFC Models from the Romanian or Ukrainian Studios or of MFC members. As a rule, they won't read anything on SW, which explains the usefulness of re-posting some kinds of information here.

As for the rest, we know that we're not in charge...and expect and hope that camgirls will take lead in dealing with these issues. We certainly don't expect to do it from here. BTW we called off our "pirate watch" several years ago. But we do take our role as observers of this industry seriously.. We are here to "take note" of how it's evolving in the context of the global sex industry and global trafficking of women.

No, we don't think of ourselves as "White knights." or an arm of the feminist "Rescue Industry" which we so often criticize here. Any reference to White knights by us is meant as a self-deprecating, insider joke and nothing else.

Bambalina, your reply was right on the on money as to why we like your writing ...
You do bring up and analyze closely the "SHIT" about the industry that nobody else will touch...and you clearly see the legal and political threat that tolerating it represents...The abuses that SM and MFC tolerate in terms of under-age girls working in the Asian and Colombian studios; permitting hard core shows in open rooms, and their advertizing links on Tube sites like Motherxxx.com - will inevitably draw down the heat from Federal DA's or State AG's on all cam-girls' heads at some point - probably sooner than later.

So we both see many of the same negative trends across the cam business - which makes for a convergence of perspectives from within and without the industry. I am sorry if these "inconvenient truths" have caused you to catch some flak on SW, but the convergence in the views of people looking at this industry from different vantage points serves as a kind of validation test for the accuracy of their observations. A sort of reality check. When different folks from different countries, playing different roles, all see the same thing, then hey, maybe there's really something happening here, no? And that's something is sufficiently important that it's worth "taking note" of and insisting upon..lol

I would venture to make one suggestion though for your CGU "Must Do List".. At some point, you ought to raise the issue of Leo's and LJ and SM's commercial partnership with the most notorious pirate forums and their associated file sharing sites and add that to your list of grievances...I sent you their urls awhile ago..and am ready to do so again.

Maybe it's time to give the pirate crew that hangs out in the Premium Members Lounge on MFC the "roasting" they deserve? It certainly would be more productive to take down some of these threads - such as the New Camxxx thread on Fxxxxphilia - with its 337 pages of pirated videos and screen-caps - rather than just keep on bitching about CGN. We're not the problem...just interested by-standers.

EB
P.S. Bambalina, the tussle over your membership status has now been resolved - in your favor.....

Photo: the battle weary E-Knight
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#15 [url]

Aug 6 11 4:46 PM

Hmmm...

I am a member there Bambalina. I read quite a few threads there and to your surprise nothing surprised me by what I read.

I even added some replies there and one reply to help someone out in choosing a flat screen tv.

Then personally, I had to read from individuals who view and treat members is a manner that, if the shoe were on the other foot, so to speak, I bet my less mighty dollar would enrage you to respond to the disrespect with which people are treated generally, subjectively and objectively.

I goaded an individual who then showed their true colors. To prove a point to them. I might add a chat host incorrectly thought I was discriminating against her in regards to their ethnicity yet lo, and behold, how the hell on Earth could I know what race or color they were and then go off into some illogical, and incorrect protective, feministic rant, that made her appear like she herself has some personal issues.

I sometimes listen and read you gals and say to myself WTF. Sometimes people don't even see what they are doing or how they are being so self centered that it skews things to a point where you just want to flip them the bird.

I used to be all for your right to work and do this work, but eventually it was individuals in your industry that changed my outlook and mind towards it.

Anyway, that was about my personal view and I wish you luck in your endeavors, but think about how your colleagues disenchanted one person against what empowers you all. camgirlnotes/bq.gif

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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bambalina

Very Talkative

Posts: 45

#16 [url]

Aug 15 11 10:17 AM

QUOTE (TRAINER @ August 06, 2011 04:46 pm)
Hmmm...

I am a member there Bambalina. I read quite a few threads there and to your surprise nothing surprised me by what I read.

I even added some replies there and one reply to help someone out in choosing a flat screen tv.

Then personally, I had to read from individuals who view and treat members is a manner that, if the shoe were on the other foot, so to speak, I bet my less mighty dollar would enrage you to respond to the disrespect with which people are treated generally, subjectively and objectively.

I goaded an individual who then showed their true colors. To prove a point to them. I might add a chat host incorrectly thought I was discriminating against her in regards to their ethnicity yet lo, and behold, how the hell on Earth could I know what race or color they were and then go off into some illogical, and incorrect protective, feministic rant, that made her appear like she herself has some personal issues.

I sometimes listen and read you gals and say to myself WTF. Sometimes people don't even see what they are doing or how they are being so self centered that it skews things to a point where you just want to flip them the bird.

I used to be all for your right to work and do this work, but eventually it was individuals in your industry that changed my outlook and mind towards it.

Anyway, that was about my personal view and I wish you luck in your endeavors, but think about how your colleagues disenchanted one person against what empowers you all. camgirlnotes/bq.gif

Trainer,
I cannot help if you choose to hold hostile individuals within the cam-model community responsible for your attitudes, and I daresay, maybe you should look at the fact that those attitudes were latent and you are "proving yourself right". Because I know of many women who "get this" and who want to change things for the better, and who like their customers, and who don't think they are lonely wankers and all that other nasty shit you wrote.

In general all cam-models have days of feeling their customers are jerks/assholes/rude/overly invested in what I do for a JOB. It just so happens my customers are male and I am female. But don't tell me you don't see the same happening in MANY areas? Do you honestly think the person behind counter at McDonalds doesn't have these thoughts? Yes, even the ones about customers being too intimate or close...I was a waitress for a few years of my life and I can tell you, I had ALMOST as many guys who would think they had a "special bond" with me, when in fact they were just favored customers...The check out person at Walmart, the 7-11 clerk, and every service job imaginable has these problems...Camming, sure, I'd grant it is more because we wrap up romance and intimacy with sexuality in our minds and unlike escorting which is pretty cut and dry, and stripping which is less so, but still FAR more of a straight up transaction, Camming involves chatting, and being friendly and seeing the same person day after day...So confusion happens...

But at what point should the CUSTOMERS take responsibility for coming into my place of work, which is partly in building a fantasy, and falling for that fantasy and messing with my work life? Should not cam customers be aware that this is JUST LIKE stripping and Escorting in the sense that to expect an outside love to bloom or even to expect to be truly my friend in the sense of people I went to school with and stuff, is over-playing your hand? And worse, to expect that the more money you spend, the greater the friendship and obligation of the woman...is to PURELY objectify her into a commodity.

Come to a camroom, laugh, have fun, be friendly...like a bar or club..but don't expect to take me home because you bought me a few drinks...it doesn't work that way, because I am not the girl at the bar looking for a boyfriend, I am a paid fantasy worker who is on the job. Treat me as such.

Yes, some women don't handle it correctly...Neither do some men...get over it, because that is life, some women will bitch you out for trying to help, some will hate you just because you have a cock, and others will ignore you because you have one. But to paint the women of the world with the brush a few use to paint life, is to completely miss out on the ones who are really changing things.

B

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#17 [url]

Oct 15 11 2:33 PM

This is a post from another forum, but relevant here I think. As a model who has followed the rules, and who has suffered financially this is a VERY HOT topic with me.

When a model offers explicit sex acts in Public/Free Chat, it does 3 bad things:

1) It limits member traffic. The hundreds of members watching one model for FREE are simply not available to the rest of us. It creates kind of a member vacume. It limits traffic to & through other rooms. That ONE model & MFC may make money, but it kills the earning power of HUNDREDS of the rest of us who follow the rules.

2) It acts to reset members' expectation/tolerance levels. Ask yourself this: Is a member more or less likely to tip me to flash him if he knows that FREE explicit sex is just a few clicks away?.

3) It limits PAID Group & Private shows. Is a member more or less motivated to take me Private or join in on a Group Show if he knows that FREE explicit sex is just a few clicks away? Why would a member ever PAY to take me into Group or Private when other models are giving it away for FREE ?? The business of HUNDREDS is killed by ONE.

MFC has become a tip optional site. When explicit sex acts are offered in Public/Free Chat, as frequently as they are, what is there to drive members into forced pay options like Group or Private Shows. Obviously, nothing. MFC is prevented from fully exploiting these forced pay options. That's why the lack of rule enforcement is so harmful to the majority of models.

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#18 [url]

Oct 15 11 3:19 PM

Thanks for your comments Strange Girl..they are right on target..
Why not take up my invitation to join us as a model member by sending me the link to your new profile page on MFC...at [email protected]

As soon as you're a "verified model" member, I can give you access to the models area and mailbox privileges.

UL
CGN Mod

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#19 [url]

Oct 15 11 3:45 PM

I agree with you completely,some.

I saw the writing on the wall.... and guess what.... other websites are following MFC'S lead now.

One has just instituted a chat topic. It is interesting to watch it evolve.

I never noticed Bambalina had replied here awhile back.

QUOTE
In general all cam-models have days of feeling their customers are jerks/assholes/rude/overly invested in what I do for a JOB. It just so happens my customers are male and I am female. But don't tell me you don't see the same happening in MANY areas? Do you honestly think the person behind counter at McDonalds doesn't have these thoughts? Yes, even the ones about customers being too intimate or close...I was a waitress for a few years of my life and I can tell you, I had ALMOST as many guys who would think they had a "special bond" with me, when in fact they were just favored customers...The check out person at Walmart, the 7-11 clerk, and every service job imaginable has these problems...Camming, sure, I'd grant it is more because we wrap up romance and intimacy with sexuality in our minds and unlike escorting which is pretty cut and dry, and stripping which is less so, but still FAR more of a straight up transaction, Camming involves chatting, and being friendly and seeing the same person day after day...So confusion happens...




Sure Bambalina, if those things occur in real non virtual jobs, then it is only logical it will surface in the fantasy world of camming too.

I will enlighten you a bit if I may.

I found camming a long time ago. Probably longer than you are working within it.

My hostile attitude has been created by the very methods many models employed within their work environments. Which I commend you on not tolerating the scam, the lies, and the bullshit that people will and can do for the sake of money, even in real life.

I learned quite quickly, how this work and how the psychological manipulation is created, fostered and expedited to a be used in this type of fantasy work.

And now I will speak more personally. I never ever sought or seeked any relationship, other than a mutual exchange between two consenting adults.

I mutually respected and understood the work and the so called fantasy involved. I also took notice quickly at the true reasons why women do this work.

The hostility as you call it, is due to individuals using all sorts of methods to fatten their wallets using the terms,"friendship", romantic proposals and many other methods that people use anywhere these days.

Now we learned recently of an American model that does this as well. Well it does not surprise me in the least. But what does, is that for all the professionalism that most career cam models from more stable countries adhere to, that they also conduct such things.

QUOTE

Come to a camroom, laugh, have fun, be friendly...like a bar or club..but don't expect to take me home because you bought me a few drinks...it doesn't work that way, because I am not the girl at the bar looking for a boyfriend, I am a paid fantasy worker who is on the job. Treat me as such.


If you only knew, Miss Bambalina, on how I comprehended how you love this job, and the fun that does occur you would, then ask yourself, what happened to this person?

Not only do I help models out in a way that avoids destructive results but I also look at many other aspects of this entire fantasy world, from copyright, to pirating, to how people conduct themselves within this virtual fantasy land.

You will never ever get me to enjoy this fantasy again,like I did long ago, because quite frankly, it does nothing for me in any constructive purposeful manner. Sorry to deflate your point of view, but from where I was to where I am now, you have to be open minded a bit more, I am sure.

Nonetheless, to have an Ex-moderator, promote that "all" members are to be lumped and treated as "fodder", is quite a destructive view of your work as a whole, for selfish, narcissistic intent.

I fight for equal rights and fairness in all things. Not just for you women who provide this entertainment, but for the members as well.

Sorry to draw the premise of Somecammodel's post away from topic, but geez, you(generally, not you specifically,Bambalina) all draw sides and never want to listen well.

These days, I hope my good friends can survive using cam modeling as their only source of income, in an environment that has become so greedy, so manipulative and so despicable for the most part, that it has sickened me to no end. Perhaps, that is why there is white knightism.

The true questions are what can be done to eliminate the fodder from being created in the first place? And that, people, you must address both what happens in the real world and this fantasy illusion of what you consider well paying jobs.

I apologize, but I tell it like it is. Not how people wish to perceive or want to have said to them. The good, the bad and the ugly of it all.

I am a realist. Perhaps that is one other reason, I do not find this work anything other than an illusion for what it is.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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nurgg03

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Posts: 69

#20 [url]

Oct 15 11 7:17 PM

Interesting thread. Personally, I'm not a white knight (or any other color). I'm a libertarian and feel that everyone is free to choose his/her destiny as they see fit. I don't want to save anyone and I applaud everyone who has the gift of raking in money, as long as there's no scam, fraud and illegality involved.

Having said that and having thought about this topic long and hard, and having written about it in detail, I find this industry to be a sure path to moral confusion, ennui or even despair for both models and clients on many levels. For the model - no matter what spin you put on it, no matter whether you call "empowerment" or whether you feel it's a powerful arrow in your feminist quiver, you're basically playing a game with your body as the tool. Not exactly Harvard law school level accomplishment. For the client it's worse: he gets entangled in a maelstrom of conflicting emotions, he feels shame and guilt and he most certainly feels the financial impact unless he's extremely well off. Nobody wins except the folks who run the websites. For the models there is also the matter of leaving traces all over the web long after you leave your job etc...

Sorry if this sounds like a rant. It's not meant to be. Live and let live and kudos to you for making a living without stealing. I just looked into a deep pit, dragged myself back from the edge and intend to stay away

George

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