#41 [url]

Oct 3 11 1:07 PM

cool.gif Glad to hear that things are cool between you and Trainer....
Sometimes he pushes model members a little hard and beyond their limits
- so that the conversation shuts down...

Of course Bambalina, I know that you're a grown up who handle herself very well in debates..
So I may have over-reacted.. White Knightism from a Mod?
Oh my... I really should have known better...lol.

I will weigh in due time.. but want to leave room for other responses.
UL
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"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#42 [url]

Oct 10 11 2:53 AM

[QUOTE=bambalina,September 29, 2011 12:27 am]


Well, lets get down to it, shall we?

It is just well and truly false that you cannot make it better. Every Independent Camgirl site that has opened here in US (some problems in other areas such as security and IDs and such notwithstanding) HAS made it better for MANY models all over the world. And radical plans like a collective camsite and other such plans that can come to fruition, can RADICALLY alter the way "camming" happens, and how it exists in the lives of those who do it everywhere in the world. Having people who TRULY care about models OWN the means of production AND Distribution will allow for controlling how that happens. Right now, those who care the most for models and their plight, are in the least control. And I will accept that this is TWO groups...customers and a models...and those in sole control are the ones who CREATED a system of slavery and robbery of dignity.[/quote]

bravo

[quote]Firstly, I think it is fair of me and not to bitchy to ask you to please stop doing that..Lumping in with "my colleagues" as if my ideas and Roast's are the same...as if I do not have original thought and the ability to speak for myself or possibly come up with an innovative idea which solely can change the entire game...Read your posts to me in the past...It is NOT the first time you have allowed yourself to go off and run with your ideas based on what OTHER cam-models might have said or done, but aimed at me, because I represent "Them" to you[/quote]

having no real idea what trainer has or has not said to you, i've got nothing to say about that personal relationship....but as a generality, i do feel yours is a valid criticism....the fact that "camgirls" can be so easily generalized on the perceptions we guys have of those we know....or conversely, on our attitude about the industry as a whole.....it creates a stigma that certainly has some realities, but ignores (to me) the point of what some reasonable % of members are all about at the sites i know.....call it what you want.....i just see it as caring....and it if the result of understanding and not a personal need, then i don't have a problem with it.....it you want a revolution, you gotta start with the way individuals deal with their discontent......any true revolution is the result of a congruence of big pictures and little ones

[quote]Once again this isn't CAMMING. This is third world economics.[/quote]

agreed, but

[quote]This is children working 14 hours a day in factories to make Nike shoes...Women in China and Korea sewing garments for 14+ hours per day till their fingers are bent and crooked and bleed? Where are THEIR damn White Knights?

Oh wait, they aren't beautiful nubile young women with pretty titties and winning smiles...So they aren't worth saving...Is that it?[/quote]

i've no doubt that figures into the equation somehow....but remember....you, the camgirl....have a voice that puts you in direct touch with your clients.....the same can't be said for the 14 hour a day seamstress who's making the jeans he wants.......i can get to KNOW you...to just buy your product, it that's what i want...or to develop feelings and understandings.....that some of them be hindered by white knightism is simply a complication.....not a deterrent

imo

[quote]So I apologize if cam-models are sometimes a bit lower on the priority list for rescue.[/quote]

why?....this confuses me....the fact is that -in my limited experience- and in spite of the meta concerns that drive this site.....camming is a far more complex and -yes- ambiguous form of -at worst- indentured servitude than your other examples

which doesn't make any more wonderful in my eyes, save except for the fact that we guys can learn from it too...because we choose to make it in our face when we visit a site....what it feels to me get's lost on this site sometimes is just how profound an experience videochat can be......as trainer illustrates

[QUOTE]
I won't go any further but for many this job is not their choice of first or second employment,perhaps it is the lack of choice that some do enter it, and after awhile it does change them for a long time or forever. Think of those that have no option, and don't want to become fodder like the rest.
[/QUOTE]

my instincts tell me that a lotta guys feel like fodder, too

[quote][QUOTE]To quote, Khnum, again, "they have to want out" add before it is too late for some as well.[/QUOTE]

what goes unsaid in stories like this is that the guy want's out too

[quote]sorry, I can help the cam industry be better worldwide, but I can't change how much Philippine is worth.[/quote]

which is pretty much the way revolutions work

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