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Aug 15 11 9:35 PM

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WebSuper Models Blog
"How I Became A Web Model" by Kate/Carolina

Here's the punch line.."I am finishing my thesis, but I am sure I will never work by my university specialization. It is more pleasant and also more secure to be a Video Chat Model."
UL

QUOTE

How I became a Web Model!
Submitted by Kate on 1 May, 2011 - 18:21

My name is Carolina and I decided to share my experience gained in Web Model career.I want to talk about successes and failures I've had since I started. But let's start from the beginning.

I'm 23 years old and I'm about to graduate from university, I became a Web Model two years ago, I started to do this because i needed money but with time I realized wasn't so bad. It was the second year of university, it was the end the study year and I was already thinking where to find me a job in the summer. I was forced to work because the family financial situation was not good, so mom was unemployed and dad hardly managed to pay bills and upkeep us. I needed money to pay for the next year contract and to support my family. I found an ad on the internet that said they are looking for ladies 18 years minimum age who have at least a basic knowledge of English. Salary offered between 400 and 1000 euros. I didn't think too much and I dial the telephone number indicated there. It was a Web Modeling agency and they were looking for ladies to work in the studio to communicate with clients through webcam. I realized how it works, I had heard earlier about this kind of activity. The situation I was in made me take quick decisions and I agreed to come to an interview. I was sure that they would accept me because I matched their requirements:I know some English, I am 170cm tall, my weight is 52kg, I'm brunette, long hair, brown eyes, so I had no doubt about it.

Just like I expected, the interview went well. All I had to do was to prepare myself for work. I already knew what my job would be because I met a girl at the interview who worked earlier in this field and I was told in a few words what to expect. She told me that there is no way back and I have to move forward. The next day I went to the studio where I met the girls and I saw my working space. The studio was very well arranged villa, each room had a different design, all with lots of light, beds in front of computer and video cameras. Girls seemed to be very friendly to meand they explained what I should do, how to begin ... gave me some good advice. That's how first working day began. There were still 8 hours till the end of my working day. The first day was terrible. I came home exhausted, I had a shower and I was lying in bed thinking ... what the hell am I doing ?!...

So a week passed, I had already started my new job. I was used with idea that there's nothing wrong with that, could be even worse. After the second week of work I received my first salary, then I thought that it's worth my efforts. For two weeks it had received 300 euros, I calculated the salary made ​​for private sessions, plus the tips. I was supposed to be paid more, but they retained their commission and I got only 40% of the revenue, however I thought the beginning was not bad. The next day I went to the mall and I bought a mascara that I wanted andthat I couldn't afford to buy previously. I went home thinking about my job and my perspectives it brings for my future.

The first two weeks passed, and then it was actually summer, I was getting my salary every two weeks, the salary grew to 600 euros, I could pay my next year of studies and I did not have any financial worries, I continued working even though it was tiring, 8 hours per day, 5 days a week in front of the computer, same thing every day.

It was already late summer, I saved an impressive amount of money that wasn't only to pay my studies, but also to buy clothes I liked, shoes and jewelry. But I had no time to enjoy all of them, I had a very busy work schedule and arrived home tired every day. I went clubbing from time to time, but never spent much time there, as I knew I had to go to the studio the next day and had to look fresh.

I decided to leave the studio for several reasons, I felt tired because of working hours, I was getting only 40% of my income and 60% was swallowed by the studio. Another reason why I left was that the school year was to start soon and I couldn't combine studies with work.

At the beginning of the academic year I sat good on my own two feet, I had enough money to rent an apartment close to the university, helped my family and even put some money aside. However, I knew that the money would end at some point and I needed to seek another job, something part time that could be combined with my studies. I already had several months experience as web model and since I succeed in this area, I didn't want to look for another field of activity. After some time I found a website that was looking for models to work from home, part time or full time. I was in control of my planning, and I could work whenever I want. It was perfect for me. I went to school, then walks with friends, shopping and doing video chat at home in the evening. It was super, working just a few hours per day, much better than the job I had at the studio. I felt good, not tired at all, took breaks whenever I needed. The company offered me 50% of the income, which was much better than my previous job, I got between 600 and 1000 euros a month . It was fine, but there also were some inconveniences, the payments were always late, and the website often had technical problems. After a few months I already knew diverse companies and websites specialized in video chat, I didn't worry about money anymore, I had an account with enough savings to live a few months. I started experimenting, seeking for the most profitable website. In 6 months I changed three video chat websites. They all had the same issues, late transfer of money or even worse, money was recalculated and I received less than expected.

Summer was approaching and wanted to take a break, I decided to travel, passed exams in college, made my baggage and went traveling around Europe. The first location was Paris of course, an old dream of mine. Besides, I had some friends there whom I hadn't seen for a long time. I spent a month in France, after that I went to Madrid, then Barcelona, ​​Amsterdam, Prague, Vienna, Rome, I spent a wonderful time, and took the best from each city. I returned home in early August. It was a perfect vacation! I spent almost all my money but I didn't feel sorry and didn't worry, I knew I could easily earn it back.

I was rested and ready to begin working and start another year of studies.I started working for a US website, the conditions were ok, and even tough the salary was in dollars, I didn't mind it, and I always had my money on time. Working just a few hours a day, I could pay my rent and deposit some money in a bank account. I worked with them from September last year until February this year, and saved enough to buy the car I dreamed of for a long time, I got a Mini Cooper, which I am very proud of. In mid February the website was closed, the owners were accused of having minors working in the video chat, there were models younger than 18 on the website, which is a serious violation of law.

Since February I didn't work, as my college exams started, and I wanted to concentrate on my studies.

At the beginning of April I was contacted in Facebook by Alina, she told me about a new video chat website (WebSuperModels), we began communicating and she explained more details about the conditions of work and other general details. I especially liked the fact that I was contacted by her directly : it wasn't just a spam message. We got each other's contact details, and I soon got a message about WebSuperModels launching their registering site. I registered right away, and soon I was contacted by Kate, and started conversations with her via email. I described my experience in video chats to her, and she insisted that I should write about it on the web site's blog.

Now I'm fine and until the second site is launched (the site where girls will be actually working) in the end of May. I am finishing my thesis, but I am sure I will never work by my university specialization. It is more pleasant and also more secure to be a Video Chat Model.

This year I plan to buy my own apartment, I have ideas and sketches about its design. I think Web Super Models will help me achieve my goal. The atmosphere in this company is very different from what I previously encountered. It looks more like a family-non business where we each model is considered as a valuable and unique part of the team. Although other website made me earn quite a lot of money already, I have never being treated with so much care and honesty by the site representatives. And I'm sure that it is the beginning of a long term and very profitable partnership.

Well, that's it ! Thank you for reading my story. I advise you to take your life in your own hands and don't depend on anyone. Working in Video Chat is not bad at all. It will help you know yourself better, it will teach you to be patient and it will help you take the best from your life!

Best wishes


Photo: "Girls Make Real Money" The mantra of the Romanian Video Chat Industry
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"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#1 [url]

May 15 13 1:09 AM

How I Became A Webcam Model

Hello,

Its good to learn the ropes of webcam modeling for you to succeed. 

This is a good site to work on.

xxxx://chatxxbatexxxxxmodeling.blogxxxx.xxxx

Some models are earning 7,000$ a week. 


This post has been redacted by me.
Read the rules...
UL

Last Edited By: UncleLewis May 15 13 3:10 PM. Edited 1 time.

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#2 [url]

May 15 13 3:08 PM

Hello Ms Fallon.. And thanks for joining the CGN Forum, but please read The Rules. We don't allow the active recruitment of cam models or the advertising of cam model jobs on this forum. We're here to observe and not to recruit. I understand that this is your job as an admin on the Chaturbate site..but "Sorry not in here" please.
However we have had a great many senior cam models as members on this forum, from Brazil, Romania and the Ukraine who were also studio admins or studio owners. They told us a lot about the recruitment, training and management of the models they knew. Your feedback on how this works in Western Europe and the the US would always be more than welcome..

I plan on reposting some of your web-site's models recruitment FAQ page - without the active links - since Chaturbate is a relatively new cam site that gives MFC some real competition. It's interesting to note that not only do you have a tip driven business model, but you are also offering an online dating/hook-up" service as well.

One last comment. How on earth can you promise your models a degree of anonymity?? You must be joking. Chaturbate has already become a magnet for pirates who are recording your most popular models shows and posting them on the major pirate forums - like forumoxxxia.. What do you do about that in terms of policing the pirate forums and submitting DMCAS?

UL
CGN Mod

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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mpcl

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Posts: 16

#3 [url]

Jun 14 13 8:50 PM

Where does one go from here ...

The punchline quoted is depressing, but it applies to many university subjects.  The Economist recently published an article suggesting that investing time into a PhD was economically counter-productive in most subjects.  Student loans in the UK and the US are also an increasing dilema.  This is only to say that the conclusion drawn is not unique to Romania.  However, the gap between the monies that can be made in conventional jobs compared to being an internet performer may be particularly large in Romania.  The explanation is simple ... the internet creates a flat world.  All models are playing on the same playing field.  How much they pull in financially depends on their personal ability to attract and retain paying clients.  However the unit price for the service rendered is the same for everyone.  Location-based jobs do not enjoy that uniformity.  Sounds like one should close the book and accept that in Romania, being a cam model is an attractive job.

But there is scope for optimism.  So far Romanians do not enjoy full mobility within the EU, not withstanding EU membership.  This will change on 1/1/2014.  Although many Romanians have already left to pursue opportunities abroad, mobility will become much easier.  Especially the well educated Romanian will have the liberty to move around Europe to find the best job.  I expect that this will change the trade off facing a web cam model significantly and that we will see a decline in the number of students involved.  This is mainly due to the pressure to achieve decent academic results that allows you to compete internationally.   If you want to pursue a job abroad that offers long-term prospects, you most likely cannot afford the time commitment required to be a cam model.  It is one or the other.  Only few will be able to manage this as independent models, as they have to compete on two fronts.  From all I can read, the successful webcam models make good money because they are good at what they do, disciplined and committed in a fiercely competitive environment.  In the mean time, their academic competition is working equally hard on their degrees.

The comments in the forum contrast the flexible time management enjoyed by independent models with the rigid shifts in studios predominantly in terms of the power balance between the studio and the performer.  The benefit of independence is attributed to the better economics.  What is less clear is the understanding that the combination of the two is a pre-requisite if you want the effort to pay off: less work to earn sufficient money to pay for the education at this at agreeable times that permit the focus on the long-term plan.  This may not have been a priority so far because grades so far did not guarantee prosperity in the low income environment in Romania.  My expectation is that the balance will swing in favor of more focus on study for good grades and a long-term perspective as access to higher paying conventional labor markets becomes easier.

This should affect the studio models the most because their flexibility to manage their time to meet  academic requirements is limited.  The trend seems clear, as evidenced in other posts: studios provide the infrastructure for new entrants and only retain average performers - both in terms of their video chat capabilities and in terms of their longer term professional aspirations.  Models that have the potential to become successful webcam entrepreneurs (i.e. this is their main profession) will go independent, because of the better economics.  Models with good professional potential in conventional jobs should seek independence because the reduced and more flexible time commitment is conducive to the successful pursuit of professional qualifications. 
   
The trade offs for anyone working as a performer seem are clear, even of they sound harsh or cynical:

1. The potential internet sex-entrepreneurs - focus on what you are good at and enjoy making a comparatively income.  Go independent because this is what entrepreneurs do.  The internet offers you the opportunity to compete on a global level playing field.  Studios have no leverage over you because it is you who pulls in the money.  The clientele you build is your franchise.  As in every other job, only very few will be able to build a sustainable brand that pays well.  Remember, if it is easy for you to get into the job - all you need is a computer and an internet connection - it is easy for everyone else.  There are nearly no barriers to entry.

2. The aspiring professional - focus on your long-term goal and minimise the commitment to your webcam job.  Under no circumstance let the short-term financial attraction of your new job compromise your objectives.  This may be tempting because you most likely have the potential to be a successful internet entrepreneur.  But, you have set clear priorities you should stick to.  If you don't you should bury your dream and focus on your potential as an internet entrepreneur.  Or, you at least defer the dream long enough until you have built sufficient financial reserves as an independent entrepreneur to pursue your education, your dream, full time.  If you do not make a decision, you will end up as a mediocre student and income supplementer, squandering an opportunity.

3. The mediocre student - you are most likely deluding yourself.  You think that you are getting into internet sex because you are financing your studies.  You think that there is a better life after performing as a web cam model.  There most likely isn't, because you will not get access to the better job market, even if you complete your studies.  You probably do not have the potential to be a successful sex entrepreneur.  If you did, you would have made this choice early on.  You looked at the trade offs and needed your studies as a justification to tip the balance in favour of getting into the business.  Your best prospect is to either get out right away or accept yourself as an income supplementer.

4. The income supplementer - you are trying to improve your financial condition and adult video chat seems to be an easy way to do this.  It might not be as easy as you think and probably you should spend a lot of time researching this forum.  If you get comfortable, then you might look at the trade off between the benefits of job routine in a studio and the liberty of independence.  Job routine is less economically attractive, liberty requires discipline.  Most people would probably argue that the drawbacks of this line of business far outweigh the benefits of an income supplement.  And let's face it, without the ability of a sex entrepreneur to build customer loyalty, you are completely replaceable.

Apart from the sex entrepreneur, all other performers should probably avoid this line of work.  The mediocre student and income supplementer need plenty of advice so they understand fully the unfavourable trade offs.  More likely than not, they also need support to manage the many downsides of the job, short-term and long-term.

FOLLOW-UP:

This leaves the second group - the aspiring professional.  One must ask is, why do they have to go into this business to fund their studies, if they have the potential they say.  Why did they not obtain a scholarship.  A legitimate answer is that there are not enough scholarships around and many scholarships do not cover living expenses.  What I therefore wonder about is whether it would be possible to create an initiative aimed at "aspiring professionals who temp as webcam performers, in order help then stay on track to fulfil their dream.  This is essentially about helping them reduce their time commitment to webcam work that detracts from the pursuit of their ultimate goal.  This is definitely not about favours or gifts - in either direction.  This is about helping someone help themselves.  The question is therefore posed to the performers who fit into this category.  They need to come up with ideas.  They know best how to draw the line between the legitimate aspiring professional and potential scamming performers.  The performers should set the terms on which they are prepared to accept the help.  The only term that is set is that performers may not grant any personal favours in return for accepting the support.  Lots of feedback please!
 

________________________________________________________________________

-- Myths are the reality we base decisions on. --

Rant of the Day:  "Great supine, protoplasmic invertebrate jellies" (Boris Johnson, London mayor, 2013)


Last Edited By: mpcl Jun 15 13 11:11 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#4 [url]

Jun 15 13 1:12 PM

Great comments and pretty consistent with the analysis I proposed two years ago concerning stratification in this industry in a debate where Nocturne handed me my head on a plate.

Look here: http://camgirlnotes.fr.yuku.com/topic/2737/Bias-on-CGN-Forum-An-ExchangeNocturne-and-UL#.Ubx8sRaxYn0 

One comment most of the independent "entrepreneurs" are located in either North America or Western Europe. Cam models who try to go independent in Russia or the Ukraine risk unpleasant encounters either with the Mafya or the Militia - or both. 

UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

Last Edited By: UncleLewis Jun 15 13 2:42 PM. Edited 1 time.

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mpcl

Regular Newbie

Posts: 16

#5 [url]

Jun 15 13 3:08 PM

Where do we go from here (food for thought)

If any one wondered what ideas I might have how to assist what I called "the aspiring professional' here are is some food for thought.  These ideas are based on the following understanding: if you claim to be an aspiring professional who is using adult video chat as a means towards and end, then I am allowed to hold you to this claim.  I may assume that your education is truly your first priority.  I am allowed to believe that adult video chat is an opportune and convenient way for you to pay for this education and no more than that.  Education is more to you than an alibi to justify to yourself why you entered this business.  Lets also assume that we are at the end of the day talking about money.

I deleted the original post from this point on.  It contained a few ideas on how to get the sponsorship to the webcam model without gifting it.  The rationale behind these thoughts was really no different than the programs that exist everywhere and provide scholarships.  The proces includes applications and performance criteria.  In a sense the student has to work for the money that is made available.  The benefit comes from the fact that this work is specifically related to the study program.  Therefore, every minute the students spends to earn the supplementary income is productive in the context of the studies.  This is pretty straight forward.  However, the detailed suggestions were too specifically my ideas and not your ideas (in this you being the aspiring professional).  This was a mistake.  It is up to the aspiring professionals to consider whether the proposition has any merit at all.

________________________________________________________________________

-- Myths are the reality we base decisions on. --

Rant of the Day:  "Great supine, protoplasmic invertebrate jellies" (Boris Johnson, London mayor, 2013)


Last Edited By: mpcl Jun 16 13 8:20 AM. Edited 2 times.

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mpcl

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#6 [url]

Jun 15 13 3:57 PM

Independence

My focus was on Romania because (i) I got the sense from how the tome of posts changed over time that there is scope for independence (one post by a cam girl suggesting that in Romania a majority of her colleagues were independent, not withstanding the proliferation of studios) and (ii) because of the low domestic income levels.  I doubt that my ideas can be transposed to countries where coercion is the norm.

(But there is hope ... intermediaries, including studios, depend on barriers of entry.  The internet is doing away with these quickly.  Don't you love disintermediation?)

________________________________________________________________________

-- Myths are the reality we base decisions on. --

Rant of the Day:  "Great supine, protoplasmic invertebrate jellies" (Boris Johnson, London mayor, 2013)


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#7 [url]

Jun 15 13 4:57 PM

mpcl,


I understand where you are heading with this and why you brought these thoughts here.

It seems cut and dry. A logical alternative to assist those whose aim is to obtain a degree. Which in the long run will provide women with the opportunity to become employed at something they would enjoy doing as a career. I have no doubts and I am quite sure many a cam model and cam male model has used this work as a way to support their studies, who then completed their studies and found a job away from sex work.

But have you also considered the individuals who maintain, and embrace this work as a career? What I am saying is that many women do have high end degrees, but have chosen this work as their careers. Quite a few, earn more than any regular job pays, without the daily grind of working for or under someone, with a rigid schedule, and co-workers who are assholes. In todays economic climate, there are less opportunity available, and this work(camming) pays better than many other jobs. But what I have found is that is not always the case.

I support people who strive to pay for their studies and become "empowered" and independent to achieve their real goals. But real life is not always fair or easy. 

One can find many a model who has multiple degrees, but chooses sex work as their primary income, because of many reasons written on this forum and many other forums. And what of those that choose this work, and are failing miserably, and can not find decent paying jobs to "survive" on in the real world? Then there are those who decided not to use this work as a way to obtain a university degree and now are trapped in a dire situation.

Your idea and thoughts are noble and well intentioned, and you are not unique in what you are aspiring to do, but to others you are the quintessential "white knight" in their views. No less, one can be easily fooled or scammed as well.

In my long exposure with some, I have met people who fall into all the above situations.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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mpcl

Regular Newbie

Posts: 16

#8 [url]

Jun 15 13 7:01 PM

Trainer, can you elaborate on the definition of "white knight" please. I am not particular familiar with it, but I have a suspicion.

At the moment my interest is to find out whether there are any grounds to believe that such an initiative could be established systematically. My interest would be to contribute to such an effort. While the ideas were partially born out of direct person-to-person interaction, the real trigger was the broad discussion in this forum. I am seeking a more institutionalised approach and hope that my comments bring up feedback about and by existing initiatives that need additional funding. For example I would actively consider supporting an existing scholarship programme aimed at webcam performers. Or, I would be prepared to contribute towards a bursary that is used to support paid internship for law students. I have noted from your posts that you have directly supported performers and the complications that this involves. This is something I would not consider, mainly because I do not want to be emotionally attached to anyone I support financially. Those who nevertheless consider me a "white knight" should not dismiss the idea but rather propose how to address this concern. I invite them to come up with an arrangement that does not require them taking my word for it. This would be more constructive.

MPCL

________________________________________________________________________

-- Myths are the reality we base decisions on. --

Rant of the Day:  "Great supine, protoplasmic invertebrate jellies" (Boris Johnson, London mayor, 2013)


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#9 [url]

Jun 15 13 7:28 PM

White knightism is a term applied to individuals who assist cam models or people in general financially or in other ways, based upon the premise that those "white knights" view others as under privileged and are viewed by those helping needing additional help in many ways.


It has many faces...

 A group of individuals, or an individual helping a model out when they are frustrated, depressed, sad or appears to need financial assistance, either by sending tokens in the environment of a cam models work environment or monetary assistance away from their jobs. This tends to be specific to one person that may or may not need help.

It can also be a person who judges, and views an individual as "in need" for various issues, i.e. - health problems, education, employment or just to appear helpful. 

The "white knight" can do it for various reasons. To achieve some sort of special attachment, romantically, emotionally, or in some ways subconsciously, psychologically. Some people get a high off of just helping others. Some can say there is no hidden agenda but to help someone out because they can.

I also will tell you that some people may be offended by another offering assistance and could cause anger towards the person providing the assistance. 

I know you mention it is not for personal gain and is unconditional and without benefits to the donator.

I do believe you would like to remain anonymous and use programs that are unbiased and generally will help those who prove need or assistance. But a cam model also is a proud, self reliant, and independent person who wishes to achieve their goals on their own merits. But there are those who do need help, regardless.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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mpcl

Regular Newbie

Posts: 16

#11 [url]

Jun 16 13 5:48 AM

UL, Trainer,

I appreciate that you are pointing to the sensitivities and suspicions you have encountered in trying to help camgirls help themselves.

There is indeed a fine the line between helping and patronising or between helping and white-knighting.  In some of the posts, comparisons have been made between help offered to cam girls and help offered to sweat shop workers.  That is a fair point, but you could extend this discussion to scholarships for the socially deprived vs scholarships for elite students, sponsorship of artists and musicians vs aid for victims of household violence, save the children vs save a rare animal species.  There is scope for all of these activities and that there is no benefit in discouraging anyone to pick any initiative they want to support.  Are the discouragers not just pushing their own pet project?

Many aspiring musicians cannot find enough time to practice because they have to pursue "other" jobs to survive.  Unless they receive financial support they have no chance at all to turn their passion into a sustainable bread winner.  In music support is frequently done through competitions or scholarships that rewards only the best.  Those who do not win in these competitions need to quickly ask themselves whether they are deluding themselves.  The analogy to the web cam model would read as follows:  The aspiring professional is distracted from committing fully to the studies by the necessity to work as a cam performer to support the studies.  Is it wrong to investigate whether an initiative can be set up to support those whose primary is their further education and where the web cam job is merely "the other job", a means to an end?  In this case, the criteria to obtain support is not based on the capability as a cam model but on the potential as an aspiring professional.  What makes the topic of support so sensitive in the context of video chat may be the fact that the starting point of the conversation is "the other job" and the emotional delusions or expectations of many who want to help, based on their connection with the cam model through "the other job".  As Trainer points out, cam models are rightly suspicious.  It is possible that this hurdle cannot be overcome.

No one wants to be patronised.  Using musicians as a proxy, I can comment from own experience as follows:  Very few are interested in help from someone who cares beyond giving money.  Ideally they are surrounded by generous music enthusiasts who cannot even be bothered to show up to after concert receptions.  If they need advice, they will buy it or get it elsewhere.  Personally, I appreciate this healthy distance between donor and recipient.  This distance permit the donor to keep going as long as he likes what the musician is doing.  There no residual obligations on either side.  And, the decision is not based on who the musician is.

My perspective on cam models is comparable.  I thought that the stigma still attached to this line of work in many places and the resulting problems of reintegration was enough of a reason to consider helping "aspiring professionals".  I simply loathe stigmas and prejudice.  I also tried to explain why I think that the time is right for models in Romania to reevaluate the trade off they face.  I assume that they are already doing so and my analysis was intended not as advice to them but as an explanation why I am focussing on a specific subgroup.

I am deeply impressed by the effort that has been put into this forum over so many years.  If it does not already exist in the private area of the forum, a thread maybe needed where models propose ways in which they would like to be helped, if at all.  They can then set terms and conditions acceptable to them.  I will now wait to see if anyone picks up the bal and runs with it.

MPCL

________________________________________________________________________

-- Myths are the reality we base decisions on. --

Rant of the Day:  "Great supine, protoplasmic invertebrate jellies" (Boris Johnson, London mayor, 2013)


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#12 [url]

Jun 16 13 12:43 PM

Cam Models : Vixens Or Victims?

Here's my comment on CGN's mission and audience from three years ago. I think it's still pertinent to this discussion. 


You can't rescue people who are not ready to be rescued because they think that the Sex Industry empowers them - that is, empowers them specifically as women who know how to exploit male weakness and emotional vulnerability for cash. It's a "gendered discourse" that turns the usual cultural stereotypes on its head - so women are seen as the "stronger sex" which is goal oriented and demonstrates purpose and self control, and men are seen as weak, impulsive and emotionally vulnerable - a resource to be harvested by women if they are "smart about it.." which of course, good cam models are.. They are the "Smart Bitches" and not the "Cheap, Dumb Whores," to quote Sweet October's description of herself and her co-workers made oh so long ago.  

This sex worker discourse is a kind of "inverted feminism." It's omni-present on the professional cam model forums like Stripperweb, and strongly rejects the idea that women in the sex industry are victims.. Rather they are "vixens" on the hunt for "thick wallets," and the only victims in this situation are their clients. 
Remember; "Men are like little puppies who must be trained to understand that my attention = their money." Lol?

Look here for a good exchange between Romanian Cam models and their American counterparts on "cyber prostitution as empowerment?"

How do you rescue people who think they have found away to use their "erotic capital" and native smarts to game the system? 
The same [neo-liberal, capitalist] system that fucked them over in the labor market and in school, and disappointed them with its false promises of well-paid jobs and meaningful relationships?

UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

Last Edited By: UncleLewis Jun 17 13 1:20 PM. Edited 5 times.

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#13 [url]

Jun 16 13 2:18 PM

Mpcl,


Understanding the goal of the hustle and the lure of the $$$$ coupled with the potential vs the bad stuff, Uncle Lewis, describes these womens views towards "outsiders" perfectly. To view any person, who chooses this work of their own free will, as someone who needs assistance, will get your head handed to yourself.

I do believe that there is a large disparity between East and West views and probably circumstance that displays a disparity between the choices that people partake in, and/or cause individuals to make other choices as to choosing this work as a means to an end or a career.

The main reason anyone chooses this work, is for the money. Some are in a desperate situation, while others choose it to further their education. Some are in debt and need a quick way to eliminate it, while others enjoy sex work. Then there are all those other individuals in between.

I once wrote here.... Is it just a woman who works as a cam model, or should "we" also include men and children, old and young, to the list of those in need? What I am getting at is, why are you selecting to help just a pretty woman whom you met on a porn site to help as opposed to others who are not working on a cam site? Are there others whom we do not know of, that also are just as needy or poor or in dire situations that would benefit from your proposals?

I am not trying to discourage you at all. We can share our thoughts, listen to others, and find the best way to help others who do actually need help. I am sure there are 1000's of organisations that are non profit, that assist people in need that you could seek out and use as your vehicle to help others anonymously. I also am sure that people in general would not say no to you, "no"(although some do) if you said, "Here is $10,000 dollars to help you complete your studies, or to pay off your debt,etc. etc. etc". 

You have probably spoken to some women and they have actually been quite honest with you about their goals, dreams and hopes. There are men who will send all kinds of stuff to these beautiful women via wishlists and other ways simply because they want to, or as I have written for other purposes, both psychologically and emotionally. 

If your idea is to start a charity or assistance program for underprivileged individuals then go ahead and start it up, if it is free of criminal intent and is honest and legit, I am sure people will send help via that program as well. 

Last thought, imagine if the billions of dollars spent on this pornographic entertainment was actually used to fund programs that help others achieve their dreams, hopes, and desires, I am sure camming would not be as popular as it is these days.


The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#14 [url]

Jun 19 13 1:47 AM

mpcl, I know a woman who has a full scholarship and is a webcam model.  Webcamming is a job and successful webcam models earn far more than the minimum to pay for room, board, books and tuition.  They can dispense with roommates, buy stuff, travel the world and attract a better boyfriend.  If your proposed scholarship forbids them from working as webcam models, some of them will refuse it.

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mpcl

Regular Newbie

Posts: 16

#15 [url]

Jun 19 13 1:21 PM

PolarBear, Trainer, UL, all your feedback is helpful and useful as a reality check. Thank you. However, permit me to make observation: Do you notice that examples offered are frequently models that represent one end of the spectrum? Either they are victims or they are successful, defying any prejudice. What about your "middle of the road", your "average", your "solid" performer? It is a phenomenon of our modern world that we are attracted to people who - for better or for worse - stand out. But the reality is that the majority of us are sovereign individuals in their own right, but they do not stand out and may not want to stand out. Who remembers the fourth place winner at the Olympics? In our public memory, fourth place is mostly viewed as the best of the losers. Yet, if the broad mass of competitors did not exist, winning would be meaningless. My target group remains those who are pursuing two aims at the same time and are at risk of compromising both, especially those who have a non-cam dream.

________________________________________________________________________

-- Myths are the reality we base decisions on. --

Rant of the Day:  "Great supine, protoplasmic invertebrate jellies" (Boris Johnson, London mayor, 2013)


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#16 [url]

Jun 19 13 3:27 PM

Whiners and Scammers versus "honest cam models'

Okay mcpl, agreed.. Camming like so many occupations tends to become a "winner take all" market - where the 50 top models on the first home page of MFC "make bank" while hundreds of others on the "back pages" have to make do with lots of "minimum wage days.." But even if they're a studio model making 400-800 Euros a month that's twice what a civil servant or elementary school teacher can earn. Because of the reputation of Romanian models as "scammers" who con Western men using "sob stories," many of the "honest cam models" may be reluctant to accept outside help for fear of being labelled a "whiner.." by their studio admins and co-workers.  Pros don't share their real personal info as a rule.  Just sayin' but it's an initiative worth pursuing - sort of like this one - "A Wanker's Tale." http://camgirlnotes.fr.yuku.com/topic/142/A-Wanker39s-Tale#.UcHNoBaxYn0

UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#17 [url]

Jun 19 13 10:28 PM

Uncle,  


Not all Romanian cam models are scammers, and scammers can come from any country.Thumbsup

Interesting to read a post from so long ago. 

How it seems things never really change, because 7 years ago, wankers model could not find a decent paying job, and 7 years later I hear and read the same issues.

This is one of the thoughts I keep writing about. Empowering a person to attain a goal(education in this instance)which only resulted in someone obtaining a university degree, and yet  for many then and now, the same lack of jobs or opportunities still exist. I might even say, the lack of viable well paying jobs have decreased since before the global recession began. But of course there is a need for people with the right education that there are well paying jobs too. 

The cyclic loop is that with no well paying non sexual jobs for the middle class, in any country to obtain for all these graduates where else can one turn to? Camming provides a "potential" to earn huge, some succeed and many more fail or end up whining or complaining about their lack of earning bank or expertise at the "hustle". 

 There are 3 levels of cam models. 1) Those who are pro's that market themselves everywhere,  sell stuff, and have a huge following... who probably earn anywhere from 10-50k/month. Yes, you would be surprised what they earn by those elite few. Do they need your help Mpcl? Nope. They would laugh at your suggestion.
2) The bottom of the barrel(sorry for that description) but these are models, who make minimum wage or less, on cam. Once in a blue moon they earn well, but with all the competition and saturation, not to mention those models who cut throat others, they are destined to be on the bottom, unless they decide to follow the business model of the elite few. They either hate this work for the most part, are frustrated, and are desperate and live day to day. They either do not have the ability, the desire nor the time or patience to market themselves or work as hard at branding themselves like the top models do. Some have huge debt as a result of being scammed or abused by boyfriends/ partners, or other issues, or have spent more than they can afford, simply because their economic environment is fucking them over. But really, they can't afford anything, so a never ending cycle of despair, desperation and frustration.Some will do anything for any amount of money. Many work in studios. Many are trapped with no choices but to work as a cam model because they do not have the skillsets or education to merit a higher pay in the real world. Do they need your help, Mpcl? Yep. Will they accept it or prosper from it, well that's up to them. 3) Then you have the middle of the pack. Women from all over the world, who are students, who struggle to pay for their education, so they become a cam model so they hope to have the chance to make bank where the potential possibilities are limitless, when they see the top models earn huge. To me it is similar to playing poker. Or gambling. Are these the ones that could use your help, Mpcl? Sure.

But I remind you,  never consider these women victims to their faces. But they are victims of circumstance. They choose this work of their own free will. Some will be offended if you offer help. Some will scam you while others will be honest. So let's say you start a scholarship program. Who's to say that there will be any jobs available for them in the real world, when all is said and done? Who's to say that they view camming as their best alternative in comparison to a regular job? The potential again. Hope springs eternal, eh?

So if there are no jobs for them when they complete their studies, have you succeeded in your goal? Nope. Remember what Khnum wrote, they have to want to decide they no longer want to cam anymore. Then they are available for scholarships, or affordable housing etc etc.

Camming is a game of luck, a business, and is capitalistic. Survival of the fittest. Perhaps, you can create affordable housing, affordable education and provide for everyday expenses for people(not just a pretty cam model,alone), then you might really help those who need help in life. It's a cycle. Some succeed, some don't. Should we create a socialist society where everything is handed to all so everyone has an equal opportunity and begin on a level playing field? Life is not fair is it?

Learn from the past and try not to repeat the mistakes of the past. Learn from  those mistakes. 

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#18 [url]

Jun 20 13 3:24 AM

mcpl, the model I mentioned would be classified into TRAINER's middle-of-the-pack category.  In Eastern European countries the U.S. minimum wage is great pay.  A model with a camscore of 400 (independent) to 800 (studio model) or more could be earning $15,000 per year.  Models could work at multiple cam sites meaning their total earnings could be higher than the camscores suggest.  You could check camscorestats to give you a better idea of a model's historical earnings.  Hopefully this gives you a better idea of the mid level models who might be interested in scholarships.

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mpcl

Regular Newbie

Posts: 16

#19 [url]

Jun 20 13 9:30 AM

Preliminary Conclusion

UL, thank you for the link to "Wanker's Tale".  Change can be a very slow process indeed.  And Trainer, thank you for your thoughts.  Thank you also for the repeated reminders questioning the underlying motives. PolarBear, thank you for the sanity check.   The conclusion is ... no direct targeting of web cam models!!!

Time for a preliminary conclusion.  In pursuing these ideas, I have been part of a small group of six who have been looking at the dilemmas faced by young people in Eastern Europe and the fundamental problem that higher education does not pay for a large number of students.  We started thinking about this after one of us, several months ago, explained how she had sent money back home to help her relatives, even to the point of indebting herself.  None of us had realised this until she lost her job at the end of the year and suddenly faced a few difficult choices herself.  She had spent the last five years working to pay back the extraordinary effort her parents made to allow her to leave her native country a build a career in a Western economy.  The discussion germinated for a while, until it picked up momentum around Easter.  Subsequently, we have had various conversations with various institutions who could come in handy, at least theoretically.  These conversations have been even incredibly sobering and unsatisfactory.   The consistent theme is that if we want to do anything, we can either donate to help "victims" through existing channels or do something ourselves.

The discussion I started here was related to the question whether we could and should focus on a specific group.  Such a group could have been those who chose to become involved in the web cam business.  There was the notion that as long as there is even a hint that someone might be in the web cam business voluntarily, this person is not eligible for help through any existing channel.  That is unless this person loses the stigma of their job by becoming a victim.  Video chat permits you to put a face to the problem one is discussing.  But, as I pointed out before, the aim of our thinking was not to help a pretty face.  Furthermore, the feedback reinforced the sense that any approach that is specifically linked to a person's involvement in the cam business is probably a non-starter.  From the outset, we wanted an institutionalised approach.  Such an approach would thus have to be open to all students.

It quickly became clear that we had a better chance of helping effectively, if we tried to address the long-term economic realities faced by students - all students.  With regard to webcam models, the best we could hope for would be to consider only students from an socio-economic background that is typical of the webcam model.  (We need to do some more thinking here to come up with suitable criteria and avoid the notion that we think that persons from this segment are more prone to entering the business.  We do not!  However, discussions in this forum suggest that there is a 'typical' story.)

Here are two possible schemes that we will be working on further.

Scheme 1 - This is the best we can do to overcome the lack of opportunities in the new EU countries.  Our small group will use what ever leverage we have to influence hiring policies for new recruits so that we can positively discriminate to the benefit of the type of person who might have become a cam model.  We will favour students who have not obtained any financial support before, in order to reward those who have battled their way through college successfully and without outside help.  Our aim is to hire on two year contracts.  This should give new recruits enough time to find more permanent employment.  We will strongly encourage additional language or vocational training that enhances the Eastern European qualification.  (We must adhere to EU equal opportunity regulation.  We can therefore not actively recruit for open positions, if we want to positively discriminate.  The approach we are taking is therefore informal, based on word-of-mouth - through faculty, student organisations and expat communities - with the intent that students apply to us without us having to advertise a position.)

The other scheme is of much lesser priority and tries to help existing students.

Scheme 2 - This consists of identifying students who were solid candidates for a scholarship at the beginning of their studies, but failed to get in.  With the help of faculty, our group would award additional scholarship to students who appear committed to their studies and would otherwise be left by the wayside.  The support may also consist of hiring students into paid internships that are relevant to their studies  Again, this would be open to all students.  No one has to out themselves as a web cam performer to qualify.

PolarBear gave an example of a student with a full scholarship who nevertheless entered the cam business.  That is a scenario that I can live with, if it happened.  The example is useful though because it shows that the first and second scheme are flawed because they do not address the fundamental economic trade offs.  But at least we can increase the chances of good grades and the mobility that is connected with this.  And we offer alternatives.


This brings me to a concluding observation.  As emphasised throughout the forum, potential cam models need to know what they are getting themselves into.  And in fact, in most Eastern European countries, I believe they do.  This does not prevent some from going into the business with high hopes and then being disappointed by the harsh realities of a very competitive business.  And they all know the economic realties within their society, which is why they considered modelling on cam in the first place.  However, I have noticed that there is too little awareness among students in general which subjects offer mobility - and this does not apply just to cam models.  It saddens me to think that countries like Romania need collective efforts by all of their young people to move the country ahead while at an individual level one can only advise such a young person on how to maximise their mobility.

MPCL

________________________________________________________________________

-- Myths are the reality we base decisions on. --

Rant of the Day:  "Great supine, protoplasmic invertebrate jellies" (Boris Johnson, London mayor, 2013)


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#20 [url]

Jun 20 13 1:30 PM

Student Debt and Sex Work - Students as members of the new "precariat" and Universities as "Drivers" in the new sex trade.

Thank you to all for thoughtful responses, but I think it's time to follow mcpl's lead and knock this discussion up a notch in terms of social analysis. So when we talk about camming it has to be always in comparison to "what?" in terms of employment. Obviously "cam-whoring" as a kind of "contactless sex work" is much safer in terms of physical security and potential health risks than any sex work that involves direct contact with clients in face to face meetings in real time. And increasingly, strip clubs and the porn industry - or even fashion modeling - involve that kind of physical transaction with clients at some point. And camming can pay as well as Indoor sex work or escorting making it an attractive alternative to minimum wage jobs in the service sector.  The downside is of course the very high risk of being recorded in ways that leaves a permanent record of one's involvement in sex work that will hang over your future career alternatives as a constant threat. All of these sex work jobs belong to the informal job market where young people are employed "precariously" with little to no job security, and cash earnings that can vary enormously from day to day or week to week. and no social benefits.  Sex workers - however much they earn in any one month or year - belong to the new "pre-cariat" made up of the "vulnerably employed" young people who make up the new "servant class" of personal trainers, massage therapists, yoga instructors etc who serve the bodily and social needs of the global upper class. Thanks to the internet, some of these service industries have gone virtual and now can be out-sourced around the globe to wherever they are available populations of university students who are young, english speaking and computer literate. So the sex work industries are embedded in a global market that relies on the over-supply of millions of students who are precariously employed.


Take a look at this Monthly Review article on the vulnerably employed as a global reserve army of labor - 
And this essay by the American Marxist Economist, Richard Wolff who has advised the Occupy Wall Street movement in New York, on precarious jobs.

I no longer believe that a university education necessarily represents a way out of the precariat. Indeed it may actually be a "driver" that's pushing more people into its ranks.
We're facing a permanent job crisis where very large numbers of young, university students and/or graduates are currently unemployed - in Spain and Italy close to 40% - with similar numbers in France or the UK. In the US, college graduates do better than those with some college or High School diplomas, but mainly because they are taking the available low wage service sector jobs - 300.000 college grads working at minimum wage - 100,000 unemployed doctoral recipients - 36,000 of whom are on Federal Food Stamps etc. In the US and the UK, many of these college students/graduates are carrying heavy student debt loads that they can't pay back given the employment choices available.  Indeed, total student debt in the US exceeds $1 Trillion dollars and is larger than total credit card debt. Unlike other debts, student loan debt can not be discharged through bankruptcy, so they are facing a kind of debt indenture that they will carry for most of their adult lives. If you look at Sudhir Venkatesh's recent work (Columbia Sociology Department) on the social profile of 290 sex workers in Manhattan, most of them fit this pattern - 86 % High School Graduates, 53% with some college, 19% college graduates. Look here: http://camgirlnotes.fr.yuku.com/topic/4076/master/1/?page=1#.UcMq5BaxYn0

It's in this context of blocked job mobility, that sex work can appear as an individual, entrepreneurial pathway out of debt indenture. You work a couple of years as a cam-girl/boy, escort or lap-dancer and clear enough to pay off your debt, or pay your school fees without going into debt in the first place, and you're good to go.  The problem is of course, that sex work leaves behind a permanent record in the form of either  arrest records, sex videos or 1099 tax records that can easily re-appear in any deep back ground check by a professional agency, and therefore foreclose the professional career for which the students prepared. But of course, if those careers appear increasingly uncertain, then this is an "opportunity cost" that young people will learn to accept.

When I started to think the impacts of this industry seven years ago, I thought that this kind of paradoxical "Catch 22" was true mainly for the student bodies being exploited in Eastern Europe. Now one can see it appearing across the developed world. 
Look here at my early "Preliminary Research Findings" from 2006 - http://camgirlnotes.fr.yuku.com/topic/111/Preliminary-Research-Findings#.UcMs-RaxYn0

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

Last Edited By: UncleLewis Jun 20 13 4:26 PM. Edited 4 times.

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