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Apr 1 12 10:55 PM

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From FurryGirl on Feminisn't
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Cam ho comparison: iFriends versus Streamate

by Furry Girl
03.14.12

I've been a part-time cam ho since 2005, and in that time, I have been a worker bee for a network called iFriends.  iFriends used to be the big dog on the block with web cams, but these days, that has been eclipsed by Streamate (aka CaxModelx.cxx).  I'd been hesitant to jump ship on iFriends to try Streamate because of the much heftier cut of sales taken by the latter network.  I decided to finally give it a go, and here's what I've learned after three months on Streamate.  Your results may vary, of course, but here's my rundown of my pros and cons in an effort to help others who may be considering an iFriends/Streamate switch, or just curious about branching out into camming altogether.

For those of you not familiar with how web cam stuff works, here's the nutshell version: after submitting a model release, contract, and two forms of ID, you can log into the network at any time and make yourself available for clients.  Most networks let you set your own per-minute rate.  Generally, there is some kind of free/guest chat area where you hustle for clients and chat with them about what you do in private/paid shows.  Different networks and settings option let you pick totally exclusive shows, or for multiple paying clients to watch you at the same time.  Earnings can be erratic, so you might make $20 one night while making $200 another night, and you have to roll with the slow times and not assume a big payout every time you log in.  The cam network is the one that brings in all or most of your clients, as well as running the streaming video platform and handling billing and customer service, and for this, they take a big cut of your sales.  You're generally paid once a week via check, wire, or other options, and this is considered taxable, reported income.

I've liked web cam work because it's like working in a peep show or strip club, but from the lazy comfort of home, and where no one can try to jam a finger in me on the sly.  I set my own hours, and if I'm not with a paying client, I can watch a movie, read blogs, write, or do anything else that still keeps me visible and in front of my computer.  I do most of my movie and TV watching on cam.  (Camming often feels like a way to justify watching TV shows.)  So, I'm not just sitting there in a sad lonely peep show box, I'm doing something else in the background.  I tend to not do serious work, however, because I need to be able to drop whatever I'm doing and instantly perk up and entertain someone when someone starts paying.  (I also don't watch "emotional" things on TV that might give me sadface.  I recently welled up with tears while watching a documentary on John Nash when he finally wins a Nobel Prize.  Cam whoring and PBS programs go hand in hand.)

For my iFriends-versus-Streamate experiment, I decided to log two or three months on Streamate and see how that sample compares to past earnings on iFriends.  I did not use my most recent iFriends time, since that's covering the holidays, during which it has been slow during previous years.  I don't feel like it's the most accurate comparison, so I decided to make the iFriends comparison all of 2011, just so I feel like I'm getting a proper sample.  (I keep records of my cam earnings.  Spreadsheets and cam whoring also go hand in hand.)

The money

On iFriends, I charge $4 a minute.  iFriends takes 50%, so my take-home pay is $2 a minute for time spent with a paying client.  In 2011, I averaged about $17 for every hour I spent logged into iFriends.  It was a surprising sting to tally that up, because a few years ago, I could count on making at least $25 an hour for time spent logged in.

With Streamate, I charge $3.99 per minute for basic shows, and $4.99 for exclusive shows.  Streamate takes 65%, leaving me with $1.40 or $1.75 per minute.  So far, I have averaged $28 for every hour I spent logged into Streamate, a big jump up from iFriends.  (This could be artificially high as the site's members "try out the new girl," so we'll see if the level stays the same over time.)

The hustle and the clientele

Of course, hourly averages are not the only things to compare.  I find Streamate's members, in general, much more pushy and entitled than iFriends' members.  The guys are less likely to even type "hi" at the start of a show, and might just type "pussy,"  "SPREAD ASSHOLE," or "hurry up!"  I've politely stated "calm down and enjoy the show," or "relax, I'm just warming up," only to have people log off in a huff or tell me to go fuck myself because I'm ugly anyway.  This would not be a good network for sex workers who have yet to develop a thick skin.  Most of my shows are 2-5 minutes, instead of maybe 10-15 minutes on iFriends, but there are more customers who want these quickie naked shows.  The guys generally expect to do the "get to know each other" chat for free in guest chat, and then only pay you for the "sex part" of the show.  To me, whether I'm amusing you with my brain or my pussy, I want to be paid.  (It's the analog to escort clients who can't understand why they should pay you to eat dinner with them, assuming that a stopwatch starts only when you get naked.)  There's more of an expectation on Streamate of you spending a lot of time hustling and woo-ing and enticing.  I hate hustling and woo-ing and enticing.  You've seen my photos, you see the list of what sorts of things I'm into, and you are either interested in me or you're not.  I'm not going to beg.

The technology and interface

Streamate cons:
My biggest gripe is that the network freezes a lot for me, and I've heard from other cam hosts that they've had the same problem.  Streamate's tech people went through some basic trouble-shooting with me, but ultimately had no solution.  It's annoying because this has cost me clients and money, and there's nothing I can do to fix it.  It's important to note that Streamate gives people the first 30 seconds of paid chat for free, so don't do anything but talk in that first 30 seconds.  Streamate also does to-the-second billing, so if a client spends 3 minutes and 48 seconds with you, you will not be paid for 4 minutes.  This to-the-second billing is better for clients, but it makes me feel like a cell phone plan, where guys are trying harder to maximize every single second.  (I think this is part of why most don't even bother saying "hello" at the beginning.  If typing "hello" takes you five seconds, that's 33 cents you "wasted" on being polite.)

Streamate pros:
I love that the interface allows you to save common replies/statements, like "Would you like to see it all in a paid chat?" or "I'm sorry my video feed has frozen.  I need to refresh and I'll be back in about 30 seconds."  90% of my free/guest area interactions on Streamate are me clicking a button to fire off an auto-reply to the questions I get asked constantly.  It's a great feature and saves me the bother of explaining the same thing hundreds of times a night.  The site overall is much more attractive than iFriends' cluttered design.

iFriends cons:
Horrible tech support, many of my support tickets over the years have simply gone unanswered.  Although the site has gone through design updates, they all are still stuck in the 1997 school of design.  It's so confusing that some people honestly can't even figure out how to join or spend money on a private show - I've heard that from plenty of my site members as they got frustrated with trying to get a cam show with me.  iFriends using cheesy language, like referring to cam performers as "stars," and tries to have this atmosphere of celebrity that's all the more laughable because the site is comprised mostly of broken English speakers from Eastern Europe and semi-literate American housewives.  iFriends also blatantly lies in their advertising in an attempt to lure people into joining the site, and it's always embarrassed me to have my image used to sell these lies.  My profile page promises readers that if they sign up, they'll get access to "my sizzling photos, steamy video clips, secret diary and so much more."  While cam hosts do have the ability to upload all sorts of free stuff for members of our "fan clubs," a lot of us don't upload anything.  To make it look like I am personally promise people that they will find "steamy video clips" and my "secret diary" is a shady business practice and one I've always been uncomfortable with.  I also know that their blocking system doesn't work, or has bugs in it, because there's a at least one guy that I've blocked several times who keeps showing up using the same screen name.

iFriends pros:
Doesn't freeze nearly as often as Streamate, and the latest redesign of my interface lets you refresh just the video feed, so I don't lose a customer and have to restart my entire browser in order to get it going again.  I like that when a chatter appears in my room, the system tells me where they are from (based on their IP), just so I can to to be more personalized and ask something like, "How's the weather in New Zealand?" or something.  I like the ability to refuse to let unregistered surfers see my video feed for free.  I want to give as little as humanly possible to people who are unlikely to ever buy anything.  I also like how iFriends displays, right under the cam window, how much money someone has spent so far.  This lets me easily have mental rules like "I don't start toy shows until I've netted $10."  (On Streamate, you can click and open a new window to see your payment stats, but it's not live and in real-time, and it requires clicking and being distracted.  I want a little ticker right there under the chat window telling me how much I've made on the show.)

Conclusion

I've decided that I will only be working on Streamate now.  There are more rude people and my cut is less, but I'm overall making more money.  I'll now refer you to a strip club comparison post from Calico Lane which contains an infographic that explains it all



Furry Girl in London with a message we approve....
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"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#1 [url]

Apr 7 12 5:11 PM

More comments on SW about SM in the thread: "I can't believe it's come to this..."
We can however, since this is exactly what we predicted would happen three years ago, once MFC introduced "Pussy Shows" for tips in open rooms....Now it's destroyed Streamate as well.. Bambalina said much the same, as has Proximus...

UL

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Julxxxxx
Can't Believe It's Come To This

    Warning, this is a bit of a whining post.

    I've been camming for just under two years. Started out on MFC and did okay, but moved over to Streamate pretty early on 'cause it was fucking fantastic in comparison, so here I am about a year and a half later and actually wanting to find a better site. I don't like where the site has gone with gold shows. I have never fully embraced it. I've stayed a private/exclusive girl and I have lots of regulars that appreciate that. I still do okay but it's just not like it was when I first started out.

    So I thought, maybe I should start trying to do the gold show thing. The past couple nights I've started countdowns and not reached my goal once. We're talking $1 per minute shows. I do NOT want any customers in my room who are not going to pay more than $1 a minute to see me naked, and with a $5 buy in guys were asking me to flash my tits/ass/pussy for their buy in. I'm just like what the fuck is going on here.

    And really I wanted to make this post, because it just blows my mind to see other ladies on here also saying things like "I'm thinking of leaving SM" as well.

    I'm sure ladies that have been in the business longer than me have seen this happen a lot but I'm just in disbelief that a site that was once so great for everyone has changed so much.




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Anonymous
Re: Can't Believe It's Come To This

    well?? I am REALLY spoiled.. If you have only been doing cam since 2009.. You have no idea how EASY it used to be.. I never even had to try at all.. i spent a total of 5 mins in free chat at the most in one sitting.. I worked on several sites.. but NO matter what time of day it was I was guaranteed to make over 30 bucks an hour.. there was no over calculations for time of day, how much you charge, what you are wearing.. what you are willing to do etc etc.. I hope those days come back.. from my own personal experience it is on the up and up!!





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Frenxxxx

    I see posts like this all the time.

    Bad news: it's going to get MUCH worse. More and more girls with cams signing on, slicing up the same customer pie, just like what happened with the strip clubs.

    Unless you're willing to quit the industry like I did, I'm guessing you're going to have to adapt. The question is what the traffic will bear, and the more traffic there is (on the seller side), the more we're going to have to BARE to compete.



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Glamxxxxxx
Re: Can't Believe It's Come To This

  
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Casxxxxxxx
    I just wish streamate would give their models the truth about why things have slowly been going to shit. sadly every time i write customer service i get the run around and they tell me revenue and traffic are going up.Maybe for them i dont see it.Because i have had to almost stop running gold shows because of low traffic and non paying customers and im always on the front page and top of my category so it isn't placement.


That would be admitting defeat and instilling fear. Companies will never do that. They'd rather blindside people by randomly declaring bankruptcy one day than telling them the truth.

Technically their traffic (which is not exclusive with PAYING traffic) is going up. As for their revenue, only they know. But they could be telling the truth. What they fail to mention though is that tons of new girls sign up daily (therefore each girl could easily be making less on average due to spreading out paying traffic) and more girls = higher bandwidth costs (more that they have to pay out).

They bought cheaper traffic. Or they failed to renew their paying traffic ad fees, and opted for advertising in new cheaper places... new places with customers that aren't spending. I suspect that is actually a disaster in disguise though, because if their revenue is going up like they say it is and they are paying for cheaper not-as-spendy traffic, they will continue to do so. Mean... trend-wise, individual girls with continue to have less and less paying traffic, yet Streamate will make more & more revenue by saving fees from expensive traffic and spreading out the paying traffic so each girl gets less. I wouldn't put it past Streamate to be that dumb TBH. They are only out to make the most amount of profit for THEMSELVES, not for each individual cam girl.



Photo: "Okay, Ride Me!" But for free...??
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"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#2 [url]

Apr 7 12 5:53 PM

I find it so interesting how things have changed over time.

Years ago, a model could work 1 or 2 sites, and earn enough money and more if they were really popular.

They didn't have to work 5-10 sites simultaneously like many do these days.

Only the most popular on 1 or 2 sites, or those women who have their product(image) on social networks, and have their side businesses of their own websites, merchandising, and others things, can really rake in the big bucks.

Years ago the competition for the pool of available customer base, was smaller. But with the downturn in the global economies, there are much more cam models competing for possibly the less available customer base real cash. I say real cash, because not only did the downturn in the economy make camming a possible alternative job for many more women, but it also dried up the available cash members have to spend on their entertainment.

Once MFC incorporated tips for pussy, some models embraced that to use as a means to earn big.

But in reality, what did it create?

I will enlighten you if you have not recognized the obvious subtle changes.

There are models who used to never do public shows. Guess what? They have succumbed to resorting to "joining" the rest, or otherwise become a dead fish in water. How many cam models said it in the past, that they would never ever do public shows and now have to resort to it, because quite simply, join the crowd or get out of the business.

On the other side of the screen, for the members, who really needs to become a member, when on some sites you can just get on the website and watch stuff for free? What incentives does that create for a non member to join? None.

I do not claim to know everything about it all, but it seems that saturation of the market(supply and demand), the tip shows or gold shows or whatever, and the willingness of models to provide public shows, changed the way the "game" is played.

It is called cutthroat business, at any expense.

Do any you know that needlive was taken over and merged with live jasmin?

Do you know that live jasmin payout is lower than needlives was to the models?

I suspect, like in any other business, the bigger cam company owners will gobble up the smaller ones over time.

And of course, never ever forget, the pirates who record shows or hack or steal content from cam models own websites or from sites like MFC and others and then post it for free or for some membership fee. You think that does not cut into a cam models earnings? Think again.

Sorry for the long post, but in summation.... look at what you all have created, and you are surprised by it?

These days the honest, hard working amateur cam models who just wants to pay for school that lives in a poorer country, or that needs this to survive, is having a really hard time competing with the professional porn stars and celebrity social marketers and merchandisers. No wonder there are white knights who wish to save a starving amateur cam model.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#3 [url]

Apr 8 12 11:31 AM

Very well said Trainer...

Like I told on this forum already months ago...

MFC is a real cancer for this bizz !

MFC is a short term hype...only taking cheap traffic...

In the end they will be left with all the beggars...

They profile themselves as the biggest...when checking their traffic, that is true...
ONLY...that traffic is soo big because of all the free-wankers...

Converting this huge traffic in revenue is another thing !

Like all deseases...all epidemies...they will vanish in time

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#4 [url]

Apr 8 12 2:32 PM

Very good analogy, Proximus,but.....


Cancer spreads....

As some of the models from SM are describing it appears that the cancer has infected the host there as well.

Do not forget one other thing.... once free stuff appears and the access to free stuff is readily available for the wankers, and the paying customers as well, it is always very hard to change what has become broken.

Do you know I posed a question to a few models who were complaining about the tip show feature when it began, regarding how they are going to stop a desperate person from conducting a public tip show, or even a free show, if that person is desperate?

How can you force or tell any model who is earning big bucks doing tip shows to stop?

How are you going to revert back to the way it was, where all customers took models into privates or groups?

Have you watched chat on other sites, where 80% of the traffic are beggars? Of that other 20% how many of them pay for shows everyday? 10% perhaps?

The only way to possibly end it, is to eliminate the public tip shows feature, but that is too late on some sites.

And yes, traffic means nothing unless that traffic is converted into buying shows and when public nudity is shown, who needs or wants to pay for anything. The key to any success in this business is knowing how to convert that potential visitor into paying for something. The websites, the admins and studios can only supply the tools, it is the women who are on cam who do most of the work(unless they have a translator helping them).

One just has to look at the last few pages on any site and compare the ratios and you will see that only a small minority earn big, the rest make some decent money and many might be better off working a regular job. But I also remind the readers here, that what is good earnings for some models are crap for those from more developed, more prosperous countries.

The other point is that for those models who do not fall prey to resorting to providing public shows, they are the ones who are losing the worst.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#5 [url]

Apr 8 12 7:21 PM

cool.gif An SW model has started a petition for changes to the gold shows on SM. Needless to say, the chances of successful petition for changes on Sm are not good.
The cancer has spread too far, and the models know it. Look at this comment by a senior model on SW.

QUOTE

Petition For Change SM

    Streamate won't do anything about it. They are making more profit than ever (according to them) although models in general are probably each making less. The only person that can change the company is the owner, and if they are legally covered and making more $ then ever, things aren't going to change. If that method worked, no girls would be doing public shows on MFC.


And now the ever lucid, Melxxxx
QUOTE

Re: Petition For Change SM

    As discussed in many other threads, StreaMates faces a situation where their current internet backbone connection capacity, their current server 'farm' capacity etc. are already 'maxxed out'. Thus any REAL improvement in SM technical performance or total number of customers would cost SM literally millions of dollars in additional investment ... which is NOT going to happen.

    While there is no way to prove this, it would appear from 'reading between the lines' that SM is subtly encouraging 'low paid sales conversion rate' camgirls to simply give it up. From the standpoint of a SM owner / manager, this makes absolute economic sense because the costs to SM of providing a 'free' video stream to a marginal camgirl, versus providing a 'paid' video stream to a top rated camgirl, are actually the same - but the marginal camgirl provides far less in the way of paid sales 'revenue' percentage back to SM than a top rated camgirl does to cover SM's actual operating costs associated with providing bandwidth and server capacity.

    Before rocking SM's 'boat' too severely, it might be worthwhile to keep in mind that, from an overall SM financial standpoint, 'the few chosen ones' are not only providing SM with a disproportionately high amount of paid sales revenues = SM income, but they may also be subsidizing outright financial losses created by marginal camgirls whose paid sales conversion rates are lower than the point required for SM to 'break even' versus the costs incurred by SM to provide their 'free' video streams. And with HD significantly increasing SM's bandwidth costs per camgirl, the 'break even' point is pushed even higher where marginal camgirls operating in HD is concerned.

    If a sustained poor economy continues to keep webcam customer spending levels down, the potential net loss created by marginal camgirls whose 'free' video streams create more costs to SM than their paid sales revenue share 'pays back', the 'problem' of webcam hosts losing money by allowing marginal camgirls to remain in operation will have to be actively addressed. One webcam host has already taken action in this regard, via instituting 'tiered' percentage payouts based on the actual level of individual camgirl paid sales revenue that was generated during a particular time period. So far, SM appears to be addressing this problem passively.


"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#6 [url]

Apr 9 12 12:30 AM

QUOTE
If a sustained poor economy continues to keep webcam customer spending levels down, the potential net loss created by marginal camgirls whose 'free' video streams create more costs to SM than their paid sales revenue share 'pays back', the 'problem' of webcam hosts losing money by allowing marginal camgirls to remain in operation will have to be actively addressed. One webcam host has already taken action in this regard, via instituting 'tiered' percentage payouts based on the actual level of individual camgirl paid sales revenue that was generated during a particular time period. So far, SM appears to be addressing this problem passively.


If I understand that above, it means that a model bringing in more revenue than another one will get a higher percentage as their cut. Ah, this model is referring to free video streaming. Are they describing the SM tv? Well if websites can branch off and create another website for recorded material without paying live models then they can increase their own earnings as well. Come to think of it, a website can charge a monthly fee just for access to recorded material too(lol, sounds like some pirate sites). Remember, that your image and content belongs to the website it is created or conducted on, so models have very little strength in stopping websites from providing that type of content as well.

Earnings can offset each other in this way though.

Higher priced models having longer privates vs the quantity of shows by the lower priced models. Both can earn the same amount it just may take longer to reach a goal in the latter example.

Then there are websites that do have tiered pricing. One site has models who's cost per minute(this level is approved by the owners of the website)and varies based upon the amount of privates or length of privates, that can effect the pricing. If a model is very popular, the websites increases that models pricing. But then that model might get fewer privates now because they cost more per minute. Advantages and disadvantages to everything.

But the question is, does a higher priced model get a higher percentage or it is the same payout to the models by the website?

Another issue arises that if a visitor can wank for less then why pay the higher price, especially when you compare MFC to other website business models. The pricing is the same for all customers(MFC), that is token pricing, except for whatever raffles, skype shows, or merchandise sold,where the pricing for those are conducted at the models discretion. But then people can cut their prices for those shows as well, creating a bidding or tip war.

I tend to think, that a horny customer, is seeking the best bang for their buck. But then some models have a persona or image that can be exceptionally appealing to a seasoned customer, who is seeking quality vs pricing, and their tastes as well.

Isn't this interesting, we are discussing the price of flesh, btw.

One last thing, the models can band together as a group and stop doing public shows forcing the customer to pay for groups and private shows. With unity and numbers there is strength. But of course not all management of the websites are the same.

I do agree that if a website is still making money or even more money, regardless of what type of shows or features or rules are occurring or enforced, the possibility of models forcing the websites hands is a moot point.

Just my 2 cents.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#7 [url]

Apr 9 12 6:12 AM

She is talking about the cost to SM of sending a video and audio stream for a particular model exceeding the revenue that the model generates. She is suggesting a tiered payment structure to encourage models to work harder like is typically done by studios. There are other ways, such as MFC closing their Asian site and retaining only the higher earning Asian models. The webcam site could also drop all models who are online often but earn little revenue at the first of every month. MFC could automatically close a model account when the camscore drops below 100. SM could implement a similar rank even if it is kept private.

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#8 [url]

Apr 9 12 2:28 PM

There is many fish in the sea...

What I wanna say is...models and studios have many choice where to work...
We will NEVER work on MFC, never !

I have many reasons for this...the management's lack of respect for models and studios...the renumeration-system sucks...the tipping-system...the general policy of MFC...

I simply don't understand why they work there ?

Everybody (99,99%) complains about MFC...so why to keep working there ?
In the top-10 of sites according to earnings for models, you will not find MFC...
and it is mipossible to work simultanious on 10 sites...concluding : ignore MFC !

Simple, if we all ignore MFC and not work for them anymore...
what they will do ? LOL...

Models and studios underestimate their own importance and thus power !

Even only out of self-respect...we don't work there...follow our example...
don't just complain, but act...

Without "content"...they die...simple as that...and I just gave argumentation we will not die without them, cause plenty of other opportunities on sites who do respect your work !

No ?

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#9 [url]

Apr 10 12 12:38 AM

Well I understand your dislike of MFC, Proximus, but honestly, I do know models who work 5-10 websites at once and some are not even on MFC.

Why do models work on MFC?

I think they enjoy being exhibitionists. I think the opportunity to make more money off of selling their panties, their videos, their phone numbers, their skype shows, their raffles, their email addresses, their image, their websites, to raffle off personal meetings, to increase their exposure as porn stars..... shall I continue?

It's because it is fun and like a sexual social network. It's a place to have fun and their are no constraints. The pirates can do as they please, the members can do as they please(except when they piss off a model, then they get banned by the model), and basically the models can do as they please.

The opportunities to scam, or cam are infinite. There are basically no rules that are followed or any that are enforced. That is why it is so addicting for many, both models and members.

There is no one to look over an independent models shoulders to keep them in check nor any admins to keep members in line.

The thing is that community has lots of freedom, for both models and members.

Remember, not everyone complains about MFC either. Without content, of course they die, but seems they are changing the way other sites conduct themselves.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#10 [url]

Apr 16 12 7:16 AM

QUOTE (Proximus @ April 09, 2012 07:28 am)
I simply don't understand why they work there ?

Everybody (99,99%) complains about MFC...so why to keep working there ?

I know of a model who has worked on several webcam sites, but the only site where she can earn significant money is on MFC after she began doing some shows in public.

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