Lead

May 19 12 2:51 AM

Tags : :

Hey guys. I just joined this place and hope to find some experiences/help from others who have a romantic relationship with a cam-girl.

I am having a hard time dealing with my girlfriend's job. I know I am a total hypocrite as I met her online when I was still an active member on these cam sites. Never to find a girlfriend though. Actually I thought here I was safe from finding a relationship in places like these... how wrong I was We live in different countries at the moment and currently I can only visit her from time to time. Eventually I'm hoping to be able to move over there.

Anyways... we met... we got involved... now we're in love... now I can't stand it that other guys jerk off on her while watching her do her thing on cam. Anyone else who has a similar experience and how did you deal with it? She can't just quit with her job at the moment so we're a bit stuck with the situation as it is now. She hates it that I have problems with it and keeps telling me that it's all just a show and that she only loves me and doesn't care about the members. I do feel that this is true and I am not too worried about her leaving me for some other member... I try to apply logic to myself too but when I happen to be online when she's working I can just rip a guy's throat out when he's flirting with her and goes pvt then

"There are things known and things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception"

Quote    Reply   

#1 [url]

May 19 12 3:25 AM

Good Luck!

"It is not who is right, but what is right, that is of importance."

"Thoughtfulness for others, generosity, modesty, and self-respect are the qualities which make a real gentleman or lady."

"It is one of the most saddening things in life that, try as we may, we can never be certain of making people happy, whereas we can almost always be certain of making them unhappy."
Thomas Huxley

Quote    Reply   

#2 [url]

May 19 12 3:52 AM

QUOTE (Max @ May 19, 2012 03:25 am)
Good Luck!

Thank you Max. I'll need all the luck I can get

"There are things known and things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception"

Quote    Reply   

#4 [url]

May 20 12 4:21 AM

QUOTE (Proximus @ May 19, 2012 10:18 pm)
Send her every month the budget which you spent before on jerking yourself off...
and she can stop working...

No ?

Yeah... very funny Proximus. And no... I can't send her money so that she can quit her job. She doesn't want that and wants to keep her independence which makes perfect sense to me.
In addition I know I am a hypocrite by having problems now with her job as I used to be a guy who jerks off to her shows as well... I already said that in my original post. But it is also perfectly natural that when you fall for someone and really get to know this person that your feelings change and look at things differently.

"There are things known and things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception"

Quote    Reply   

#6 [url]

May 20 12 2:51 PM

Welcome Doors_Of_Perception.. Take a look at the different "friendship" threads and you will see that our Model/Studio members, like Andra, camgirl, MissJane or ThePartisan, (who are our female version of an "E-Knight"), spend most of their time talking male members down from some doomed, online infatuation before they get their wallets busted and their emotional "clocks totally cleaned" ...

It's not for nothing that CGN has earned the nickname: "Heartbreak Hospice."
So Proximus may sound a little mean, but he's really trying to do you a favor.

However if you read through all 6 years of the "friendship thread," you may discover a few exceptions to the general rule - members who got their girl, or girls who got their member - and then their troubles really began..

But then again, wasn't it Freud who promised his patients that all he could do was to help them exchange "neurotic misery" for "ordinary unhappiness?" We can do no more.

Anyway, Good Luck...

And could you tell us where your model was from? Whether she was a student?
A Studio Model? And why you ever thought she might leave the industry? After working how long?

And if you don't know the answers to these questions, it's about time you found out.

Thanks
EB

The weary and battle worn, E-Knight...
--------------------
Click here to view the attachment

Quote    Reply   

#7 [url]

May 20 12 3:09 PM

Hey Guys, I was asked to respond here to some new arrivals.

I am not going to mince words or sugarcoat anything.

Really now, I will logically state what type of situation you find yourselves in.

1) You are tainted, you paid for shows and became a duck prior to finding someone you love.

2)Now since you have fallen in love you are jealous and angry at sharing your woman's private parts and her persona. it is the same thing that attracted you to her. So now you feel kind of worried or insecure that you are sharing her with others

3)You also might feel that there could be another person better and richer than thou that might steal her away from you, perhaps. I have seen that done too.

4) What right do you have to tell her to stop because it hurts you? It was okay for her to do this work when you paid for her shows but now, it is not okay, simply because you are now intimate with her? Turn the other flip side now, and ask yourself if she asked you to do the same thing regarding your work, would you stop performing your work?

5) If you have problems dealing with her work and the fact that you can not handle what she is doing then I assure you, you will end up hating yourself, destroying whatever relationship you both have with each other, and you might become an angry bitter person.

6) As Proximus writes, stop paying her for shows. Use that money to promote your relationship by spending on her like any good man would with gifts and luxuries that you now save. I do forewarn you that, Proximus, has very little tolerance for members stealing away or encroaching on women who do this work.

7) You are on a slippery slope to disaster, and either you walk away or you accept her terms because no matter how hard you try to deal with it, it will just get harder and harder on you as time progresses. You can not win or change their minds until they decide themselves.

8) The only way you can eliminate the issues you are having is to change your point of view towards it, or wait until she quits the job of camming, until then you would be better served to stay away from her work while she works. But I doubt you will be able to do that. Maybe she can block you from seeing her at work, lol

As Max stated Good Luck.

P.S.- I am going to highlight some other things that have been mentioned in the original persons post that may or may not have flown under the radar.

QUOTE
She hates it that I have problems with it and keeps telling me that it's all just a show and that she only loves me and doesn't care about the members.


A common theme from the side of a cam model... take note members that for the most part that she states she does not care about the members. Heard it said plenty of times from many cam models. I just suppose that the original poster here, has alluded becoming fodder, or perhaps maybe not.

Another thing, people here say members do not meet models... hmm... I guess this post is a scam or a lie. Not patting myself on the back here, but just highlighting some of the avoidance and obvious head in the sand mentality from others here on this board.

Perhaps, some people on this board are scared silly because they do not wish to acknowledge that they could be incorrect when confronted with the facts stated within this thread.

Lastly, lol, I forgot to mention, Mr. Proximus, about all the independent cam models who do not even work through a cam site(i.e.- skype,yahoo, messenger or via their own websites).
I spoke with a romanian model just the other day, who without me even asking stated that she never worked for a studio and would never work for one because as she stated: "How stupid is it to give half my money to someone else".

Yeah, I know I went off on a tangent, but seriously, pay attention and open your eyes already. Get your heads out of the sand and come up for some air.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

Quote    Reply   

#8 [url]

May 21 12 1:58 AM

Guys, thank you for your replies but this is not what I asked for. I know that my situation is difficult and I also know a lot of people have been taken for a ride by a model.
First of all I want to say that I do not pay for any shows anymore. She doesn't even want me to do that. She does do it for free at times if we're in the mood for it. I didn't want to say this as I thought this would also give negative comments... but I do send her money from time to time to either help out or get her something. She never asked for anything and she doesn't like it if she needs my help. I can already hear you say that's also a trick but let's not get too deep into our situation. I did not ask if I am being taken for a ride. I did not ask about my chances of success either. I know the chances are low. I know this whole thing is next to impossible.

If I'm being taken for a ride or not... I don't know. Maybe I am ... maybe I'm not... but that is not what I am asking here! I'm simply asking for some advice on how to deal with this... any tips/tricks... something practical. I don't need to hear that it's oh so hard and it's impossible and it's only going to get worse... you're just stating the obvious here. To prevent my feelings toward her job from getting worse... that's why I'm asking for some guidance! I know that the current situation won't chance... she will have to keep doing her job at least for a while... and I have to learn how to deal with it. I don't wan't to bother her too much with it as I don't think it is fair to her. So that is why I came here.

I can choose not go to her 'place of work' and just stay away. But she does like it when I'm there to keep her company so to speak. We chat through different channels (and also when she's not working of course) but when she is working then I am logged in her chatroom and we talk outside of it. It's also because our schedules are in such a way that the times we can spend with eachother is when she is working. So that's why I would like to have some help on how to change my point of view on her job. And no... she can't change her schedule and no... I can't change mine. It is what it is... everything is all locked into place so no need to get into that.

I think what Trainer said here is exactly what I want to know:
[/QUOTE]8) The only way you can eliminate the issues you are having is to change your point of view towards it, [QUOTE]

How to change the point of view towards it... that is exactly what I want to know... anyone who has been in this situation and has taught himself/discovered a way to change his point of view towards it!!!!

Once again... I know this relationship is a difficult one. I know it's a long shot.. I know it's near to impossible... and there's a 90% chance I'll end up heart broken ... or to indulge you guys 99,9% chance of ending up heartbroken. But I still want to hold on to that 0,01% chance it will work because if it does then all this crap was all worth it. To me the things in life I regret most are the things I didn't dare to do or quit doing because I was too scared to follow em through.
If this relationship will turn out to be a disaster, so be it. I'll lick my wounds and move on. But I can not walk away from it as then the question of "What if..." will haunt me for the rest of my life.

So... anyone out there who has a practical tip of how to deal with this situation? Or better yet a personal experience. Maybe from one of the rare lucky ones who did manage to make it work.

And guys... thank you for wishing me luck. I know I need it. Sorry that this post is so long but after seeing the responses it became clear that nobody really understood my question. I do not need to be reminded that this is going to be hard and that this will very likely end up with me being heartbroken... really... that I can handle. I'll just doom and gloom for a while and drink a little more than I should for a month or so and I'll be fine. I've had enough crap in my life already which taught me how to deal with all that. But I never had a camgirl as my girlfriend before... I found this place... I thought maybe there is somebody who can give some pointers... that's all.

"There are things known and things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception"

Quote    Reply   

#9 [url]

May 21 12 2:19 AM

QUOTE (EmileBertrand @ May 20, 2012 02:51 pm)


And could you tell us where your model was from? Whether she was a student?
A Studio Model? And why you ever thought she might leave the industry? After working how long?

And if you don't know the answers to these questions, it's about time you found out.

Thanks
EB

The weary and battle worn, E-Knight...

To answer your questions EB... she is a student. She's not a studio model. She wants to quit as soon as she has enough money to set up her own business. She's been working a couple of years now. She is from parts of Europe that aren't as well off as the rich Western countries.

"There are things known and things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception"

Quote    Reply   

#10 [url]

May 21 12 2:37 AM

QUOTE (TRAINER @ May 20, 2012 03:09 pm)
Hey Guys, I was asked to respond here to some new arrivals.

I am not going to mince words or sugarcoat anything.

Really now, I will logically state what type of situation you find yourselves in.

1) You are tainted, you paid for shows and became a duck prior to finding someone you love.

2)Now since you have fallen in love you are jealous and angry at sharing your woman's private parts and her persona. it is the same thing that attracted you to her. So now you feel kind of worried or insecure that you are sharing her with others

3)You also might feel that there could be another person better and richer than thou that might steal her away from you, perhaps. I have seen that done too.

4) What right do you have to tell her to stop because it hurts you? It was okay for her to do this work when you paid for her shows but now, it is not okay, simply because you are now intimate with her? Turn the other flip side now, and ask yourself if she asked you to do the same thing regarding your work, would you stop performing your work?

5) If you have problems dealing with her work and the fact that you can not handle what she is doing then I assure you, you will end up hating yourself, destroying whatever relationship you both have with each other, and you might become an angry bitter person.

6) As Proximus writes, stop paying her for shows. Use that money to promote your relationship by spending on her like any good man would with gifts and luxuries that you now save. I do forewarn you that, Proximus, has very little tolerance for members stealing away or encroaching on women who do this work.

7) You are on a slippery slope to disaster, and either you walk away or you accept her terms because no matter how hard you try to deal with it, it will just get harder and harder on you as time progresses. You can not win or change their minds until they decide themselves.

8) The only way you can eliminate the issues you are having is to change your point of view towards it, or wait until she quits the job of camming, until then you would be better served to stay away from her work while she works. But I doubt you will be able to do that. Maybe she can block you from seeing her at work, lol

Thank you for your points Trainer.

Let me go through them one by one:

1. errm... not sure what to say to this. You're already suggesting here that I'm a fool falling for a scam.

2. Well... yeah... that is exactly what I said already isn't it? I know I'm jealous and I know I feel kinda worried/bummed that she has to show off her body with other men... it's what I said in my original post and this is exactly the question I had: how to change my way of thinking

3. No way I'm worried about that. I'm not wealthy and she is poor. She has had plenty of guys who have money offering her all kinds of things but she is still poor today. So after the years she's been working she never went for some guy with lots of money to 'steal her away'.

4. I never told her to stop working. I would like it if she would. But I know she can't. I don't feel it is necessary to say why but believe me... she just can't.

5. That is EXACTLY why I am asking for help here!!! I don't want to become an angry bitter person. I dont'want to end up hating myself. so I'm asking you guys for some helpful tips to change my way of thinking.

6. I never said I am still paying for her shows and as I said already in my other post: I don't pay for it anymore. Not for a long time. I do help her out though.

7. Again stating the obvious. I know it's gonna be hard and I know the chances for successs are not too high. That's why I want some help to improve these chances

8. But HOW to chance my point of view on this. That is what I want to know!

Look, don't get me wrong. I appreciate your reply and I understand you are just trying to warn me. But I realise the situation I'm in and that it's a difficult one. I don't mind it... I just want a little help with it. That's all. Let me fall on my face... maybe after a short while you'll find a post of me saying that it all went to shit. But that's ok for me. I just have to see this thing through.

"There are things known and things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception"

Quote    Reply   

#11 [url]

May 21 12 4:31 AM

Why are you "in her room" if you chat with a different app? If she really cared about you and your feelings, she would not tell you she likes it when you are there. She would only want to chat with YM or similar and not have you suffering with her 'work chat'. But, of course, you won't find that satisfactory and your prurient curiosity will force you to watch as an anonymous guest...
But then I guess you would hang out all day at any girl's work that you fancy? Then when she interacts with any man you can explode in a fit of jealous rage?
I think you have objectified this woman and you now believe she is one of your possessions.

And this whole shit about 'quitting when she has enough money to start her own business'.
Then that fails and she returns to what she knows: camming...

Bottom line: She is not yours to order about and she can do and speak with who she damn well pleases.

Grow the fuck up.

Quote    Reply   

#12 [url]

May 21 12 8:37 AM

QUOTE (markfx @ May 21, 2012 04:31 am)
Why are you "in her room" if you chat with a different app? If she really cared about you and your feelings, she would not tell you she likes it when you are there. She would only want to chat with YM or similar and not have you suffering with her 'work chat'. But, of course, you won't find that satisfactory and your prurient curiosity will force you to watch as an anonymous guest...
But then I guess you would hang out all day at any girl's work that you fancy? Then when she interacts with any man you can explode in a fit of jealous rage?
I think you have objectified this woman and you now believe she is one of your possessions.

And this whole shit about 'quitting when she has enough money to start her own business'.
Then that fails and she returns to what she knows: camming...

Bottom line: She is not yours to order about and she can do and speak with who she damn well pleases.

Grow the fuck up.

What kind of crap is this?! First of all.. I already told you why I am also in her room... second... I never said that if I wouldn't I would go lurk around her room as a guest and no I don't do that either.
No... I don't hang out all day at a girl's workplace... if you can READ you can see that because of our schedules we usually end up talking when she is online. I'd like to be there for her and that's why I'm also in her chat room. I do NOT see her as one of my possessions... I never said I order her around to do anything. Once again... if you would bother to read what I said you'd know that I never told her to quit. She can do whatever she wants and she can talk to whoever she wants. I just asked for someone who has a similar experience how he looks at it. What the fuck is wrong with you people?!? Did you all fall in love with a cam-girl and ended up dumped/fooled/whatever?!?!? If you don't have anything useful to say and just want to spit your venom and misery then don't bother replying...please.

Oh... and what the fuck is this crap saying that it's shit she wants to start her own business and that it will fail? Maybe it will... maybe it won't but to say it will go bad for sure only proves what a sour miserable negative sad little prick you are. Just because she's a cam-girl she can't do anything else anymore?! I think you're the one who needs to grow the fuck up.

So to anyone else out there... if you have something that is actually USEFUL for my situation please share. If you just want to throw out a negative rant that it'll never work out anyway... never mind. I can discover that on my own.

"There are things known and things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception"

Quote    Reply   

#13 [url]

May 21 12 11:32 AM

If u can Instant message each other just use that and don't be on the site. If u want to see eachother set times up where you can Skype her. Avoid cam site.

Quote    Reply   

#14 [url]

May 21 12 11:40 AM

Doors_Of_Perception, take a deep breath; count to ten and let it out slowly....
Nobody's making fun of you. Lots of members have been in the place where you find yourself - which why they are throwing some cold water your way.

Here's what's setting off the alarm bells- you're calling this cam-model your "girl friend." The odds are very high that she's not. I don't know if she's a professional 'cam-model" or just a scammer, but if she's from Romania she could well be both..

Read some more of what's posted in "Read The Members." by our cam model members.
Start here: http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=2082
And then this: http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=2366
And then this: http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=3155

Again try not to take this personally.. Chances are that it's not personal for her. That's just the nature of the business.
As Trainer said: once a client, (almost) always a client.

EB

Finnish MFC Model's Profile.. Sound familiar? Don't you want to believe her?
I certainly do...loool
--------------------
Click here to view the attachment

Quote    Reply   

#15 [url]

May 21 12 12:03 PM

Thank you EB for giving a normal reply. I am sorry that I ranted earlier but it just felt like everybody just wanted to make sure I know what kind of idiot I am.

Thank you also for the links. I did already read two of them but I did not see the one of the Romanian scammer. The girl in question is not romanian but that does not mean she could be a scam artist of course. I do know where she lives and she knows I do not have a lot of money. She has been working for some years already and looking how other members react to her (some know her from the beginning) I don't think she is an actual scammer. I haven't seen anything suspicious but that doesn't mean anything. We will meet soon so I guess I will find out soon as well.

So once again: I know I am at risk here. I know that this could easily turn out to one big chunk of misery. But like I said: I want to find out what it is and the only way to find out is to go ahead with it. If it fails I lost some time and a little bit of money.

I guess as far as me being in her chatroom then I guess the only option is not to go there anymore. Seems there is no other way.

Once I know more how this has developed I will let you guys know. So either you can come and tell me "Told you so" or comfort me Or congratulate me that I found that 0,01 % chance for happiness

"There are things known and things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception"

Quote    Reply   

#16 [url]

May 21 12 12:28 PM

Good Luck..It does happen.. There's an open topic in the models' section with surprising stories from our model members (about five in all) who met "their guy" in a chat room.. Read MissJane for instance..
here: http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=3155
but then here: http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=3155

Keep reading, and then read some more...until the pattern of commercial exploitation by the "Web-Pimps" becomes clear.. and then remember that in the end, "Only The House Wins." Take a look at this famous "Model Manual" from FlirtForFree which is a classic of its genre, where an experienced web-masters tells his models how to succeed. It's not so much the sex show customers, as the lonely guys that he wants them to target: http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=3155

Ultimately, this is not about you or her, it's about the global Adult industry that put you two in touch so they can profit from your individual transactions.. and emotional connection. Cam-girls are both the commodity traded for "pussy -cash" and the industry's best propaganda agents. They market both their own individual brand, and their web-site's. And above all else the notion that "virtual prostitution" is both fun and safe.

As we used to say here: "Don't Feed the Machine." Or "Don't be Fodder.."

EB
--------------------
Click here to view the attachment

Quote    Reply   

#17 [url]

May 21 12 2:19 PM

Thank you EB for the good luck wishes I know I will need em. And thank you for the extra links as well. It's also nice to know that it can actually happen even if the chances are very slim

I get the impression people think that I still pay for shows/pvts. I don't and haven't done for many months. I do send her some money at times but it would not cover all the time we have spent together if you would count it as pvts. She even said she does not want me to go to pvt and pay for talking to her as she wants to see me and her job separate.

On top of that she did not even want to get money from me and is still uncomfortable about it. She never asks and I always have to guess a bit she is coming up a bit short. Maybe you wonder why she doesn't have enough money as she is a performer so she should have plenty of it. I rather not discuss that here too but believe me that it is hard for her to get by. I managed to verify that for 100% so no doubts about that.

In the beginning she insisted on doing something in return(no guys... not money for sex) or pay it back some how later when she has more again. As I couldn't think of anything she could do I agreed to see it as a loan but I already knew back then it would be very hard for her to pay it back. These are just small amounts for food or something simple. I am not expecting this money back and I am ok with it. I did give her some gifts too and also bigger things for her birhtday and Christmas but nothing major. No cars or whatever I don't even have much money and like I said: she knows that. Also there were times I did not have any money left myself and she is still with me. Or at least didn't just disappear on me. So if she would be a scammer she would be the weirdest scammer in the world you'd think I'm sure there are wealthier guys to catch.

Also I have seen guys offer her big gifts/money in free... and she told me about many guys who had feelings for her but she said honestly that she did not have the same feelings for them. I have also seen it in free chat a couple of times. Of course you can be sceptical that she puts on a show for me. But why would she if I don't have that much to offer financially? She says she loves me because I'm always there when she needs me and that I care a lot for her. That she feels good when we talk and that we understand eachother so well. An example why I did hang in her chatroom too was because she sometimes gets very frustrated with annoying members and just has to vent her anger a bit so then it's handy to see what's going on. I'm sure somebody will come up once again with something that this is also just an act. But if she can't earn that much money from me... why on earth put on a fake show for so many months that doesn't benefit her financially?
I am not getting any richer either. So why would someone bother?

Maybe there are still alarm bells going off here but I don't see them. The goal for cam-girls is to earn as much money as they can... and I'm just not worth it to invest so much time in. Even if she is poor she never cared for rich guys and she always wants to earn her own living as much as she can.

So... maybe this helps a bit and gives a bit of insight into my relationship with her. Or what I see as a relationship anyway I did not say too much about it in the beginning as I thought it would be irrelevant to my question. There is still more that makes me think that what we have is genuine but I just like to keep these things personal.

Even if it is real it's still has its complications so I know it's still not easy But like I said... I can't just walk away from this because it may not end well.

"There are things known and things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception"

Quote    Reply   

#18 [url]

May 21 12 6:37 PM

I wrote a post.
As it was almost done it disapeared.
Can an administrator please explain what happened, and how I can recover it?
It was fairly long post.

"I am very little inclined on any occasion to say anything unless I hope to produce some good by it."
Abraham Lincoln

"I was mute with silence, I held my peace from good; and my sorrow was stirred up."
Psalm 39:2

There is what one knows, there is what one knows they don't know, and there is what one does not know what they do not know.
(mis-quote from an arrogant and dangerous fool, who had at least these wise words to say, if he had only used them to guide his actions)

Quote    Reply   

#19 [url]

May 21 12 8:45 PM

I am sorry Noname..I have no idea what happened, but something similar happened to me when I hit the wrong key and moved away from the page I was working on.. If the text is not saved it may be hard to recover.
UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

Quote    Reply   

#20 [url]

May 21 12 9:20 PM

Sad story...

Well...apologies if i sounded harsh...but that is the only way I can provoke you to think clearly...

Trainer, as always my big supporter...is right !
(yes i write this out of free will, no kalashnikov pointed at me...hihi)

Guys, I have news....for all of you ! Good news !
Thanks to this community and all topics...all fights and discussions...
my partners and I got a splendid, no...fantastic idea which will change
this bizz forever...at least for about Half of its clients !

Thx to this thankful forum and its very informative content from all of you,
we got this idea.
We are finishing the beta as we speak and prepare marketing strategy,
advertising and all stuff.

Nope, ,no details yet, but I can assure you, it fills a big niche...a big need in the
online entertainment !

When ready, I will pm all my "friends" here and ask your comments, deal ?
As you are specialists, i would appreciate your reviews !

Till soon !!!

See Trainer, my buddy...you brought me the egg of Columbus !!!
Thx a lot !!!! (not kidding)

Quote    Reply   
Add Reply

Quick Reply

bbcode help