#21 [url]

May 21 12 10:00 PM

QUOTE (Doors_of_Perception @ May 21, 2012 02:19 pm)
Thank you EB for the good luck wishes I know I will need em. And thank you for the extra links as well. It's also nice to know that it can actually happen even if the chances are very slim

I get the impression people think that I still pay for shows/pvts. I don't and haven't done for many months. I do send her some money at times but it would not cover all the time we have spent together if you would count it as pvts. She even said she does not want me to go to pvt and pay for talking to her as she wants to see me and her job separate.

On top of that she did not even want to get money from me and is still uncomfortable about it. She never asks and I always have to guess a bit she is coming up a bit short. Maybe you wonder why she doesn't have enough money as she is a performer so she should have plenty of it. I rather not discuss that here too but believe me that it is hard for her to get by. I managed to verify that for 100% so no doubts about that.

In the beginning she insisted on doing something in return(no guys... not money for sex) or pay it back some how later when she has more again. As I couldn't think of anything she could do I agreed to see it as a loan but I already knew back then it would be very hard for her to pay it back. These are just small amounts for food or something simple. I am not expecting this money back and I am ok with it. I did give her some gifts too and also bigger things for her birhtday and Christmas but nothing major. No cars or whatever I don't even have much money and like I said: she knows that. Also there were times I did not have any money left myself and she is still with me. Or at least didn't just disappear on me. So if she would be a scammer she would be the weirdest scammer in the world you'd think I'm sure there are wealthier guys to catch.

Also I have seen guys offer her big gifts/money in free... and she told me about many guys who had feelings for her but she said honestly that she did not have the same feelings for them. I have also seen it in free chat a couple of times. Of course you can be sceptical that she puts on a show for me. But why would she if I don't have that much to offer financially? She says she loves me because I'm always there when she needs me and that I care a lot for her. That she feels good when we talk and that we understand eachother so well. An example why I did hang in her chatroom too was because she sometimes gets very frustrated with annoying members and just has to vent her anger a bit so then it's handy to see what's going on. I'm sure somebody will come up once again with something that this is also just an act. But if she can't earn that much money from me... why on earth put on a fake show for so many months that doesn't benefit her financially?
I am not getting any richer either. So why would someone bother?

Maybe there are still alarm bells going off here but I don't see them. The goal for cam-girls is to earn as much money as they can... and I'm just not worth it to invest so much time in. Even if she is poor she never cared for rich guys and she always wants to earn her own living as much as she can.

So... maybe this helps a bit and gives a bit of insight into my relationship with her. Or what I see as a relationship anyway I did not say too much about it in the beginning as I thought it would be irrelevant to my question. There is still more that makes me think that what we have is genuine but I just like to keep these things personal.

Even if it is real it's still has its complications so I know it's still not easy But like I said... I can't just walk away from this because it may not end well.

Hmm well I am sorry to say it but I agree with most of the replies youve already gotten.

There are tons of red flags going up and while youve expressed displeasure in hearing about them I still feel the need to point them out, if not for you, then for others that may come here in the same situation...

She lives in a poor country, has been doing this work for years and is still not able to get ahead??

She is doing this work for years- so she is a pro. Its hard work. No one lasts for years with out a good hustle.

Your logic and reasoning about why you are not a good mark is exactly what makes you one.

Flip it around and see it from her pov. Cam sites traditionally take 70% of what you earn. That means for every 100 dollars you spent in prvt and tips she earns 30 dollars. Less taxes and expenses (internet, electricity, outfits, makeup etc). The profit margin is very low. Its hard, repetitive work. You do the same exhausting show over and over again. Stand up, bend over, lean back, spread legs, flip over, zoom in, zoom out, repeat. After 6 or 7 times in a few hours its exhausting. Not to mention the abuse you endure and the fake attention you have to constantly give.

So you feel because youre no longer a paying client youre safe. Logic says why turn a paying client into a non paying one... Well what are the advantages for her having you no longer being a "paying client". Hmm, well theres the tax free money for nothing. Every hundred you send goes right to her pocket. And what is she doing for it? Nothing. Nothing but chatting with you. In fact she even gains your support. Some one to bitch at about her lousy clients, some one who offers support when shes having a rough day. And what does she have to give in return?> Very very little. You are too far away to have to make any demands of her. She dosent have to see you, or go out with you. Youre there when she needs you and youre paying for it!

No youre not rich. But Ive said it before, being wealthy doesnt make you a good mark. Its about how much of what you do have youre willing to give for the least amount of effort or work on her part. Do you really believe you are the only guy sending her money like that?>

Youve said youve seen regulars in her room. People that have been on since the beginning. It takes a hustle to keep regulars like that. As a model you have to look at each member., evaluate them. See what it is they want and how to get the most out of them.

So if its a choice between pocketing 20 dollars or so from doing an exhausting exploitative show, or maintaining a mock friendship for the same if not more money.... well the smart choice is the latter...

Anyway. All that aside. I agree with the comment made about the only choice you have if you choose to remain in this situation is to avoid the chat room if you cant deal with it.

I remember when my now husband and I first got together and we were at that awkward stage of him being more then just a client but not yet my husband and he came into my room, we were chatting, but I was working and a similar situation happened. I was flirting/working/soliciting tips and prvts- and one guy made a comment about wanting to be with me. So of course I encouraged him to take us to prvt where we could discuss how great it would be and my husband got such an awful look on his face.

I called him out on it and all he could say was he forgot he had his cam on and I could see him scowling. So you know what I did? Because I had true feelings for him and wanted it to work. I made time for him outside of work. I changed my schedule and would spend time with him before my shift or after. I made it so he wouldnt have to come into my chat room to see me because it was uncomfortable for him and to be honest it became uncomfortable for me as well.

Its hard enough to lie and fake smile at wankers with out having to keep messaging him on the side oh I didnt mean that and having him watch me hustle on top of that.

Most cam girls dont have bfs or husbands because the level of jealousy is hard to deal with. And those that do work really hard to make it work. If shes not willing to work with you on it and make changes to account for your feelings then its not going to work out.

But please read what I said above about being an easy mark and think hard about it. Sometimes the truth is easy to see if you want to.

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#22 [url]

May 21 12 10:18 PM

Well said MissJane.. and as always on the mark...
And welcome back, MJ, your common sense and strong voice has been missed.
UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#23 [url]

May 22 12 1:00 AM

I must say Miss Jane you woke me up a bit with your post. I myself for the last year have been talking to a cam model, however its never been in a sexual nature. For some dumb reason I really like this girl and would rather be a friend to her than anything else. She has told me a couple times in our conversations this isn't about the money but funny how different she acts when we are in a free chat and my account shows no money, but the minute I have money in my account I get a little more attention. I've always enjoyed our conversations we have in pvt and enjoy her company but at the end of the day I always feel like I just got hustled to continue the conversation or add more money in my account to continue. Thanks for helping me to wake up so to say.

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#24 [url]

May 22 12 1:03 AM

Ok, I think you made your point clear now, Mr. Perception.

First off, you're welcome, Proximus, glad I could be the inspiration for an idea. I expect 25% royalties from the profits you earn.

I have been in the same predicament you are in.

You keep asking how to do deal with it and some very experienced and knowledgeable people have replied.

It appears as though you want and wish it to succeed and end happily ever after. Nothing in life is guaranteed, no where, not in the fantasy world of camming or in the reality of real life.

I understood that you stopped paying for shows.

I will tell you a few things from a person who was in your same position. Some of it applies not just to the world of camming and relationships but also in any relationships, anywhere.

Most partners do not like to be in relationships with jealous people. It creates mistrust and leads to arguements. I do believe there is room for some jealousy, because it shows to your partner that you have feelings for them and you care. Being too jealous, is a turn off and causes problems. If you are the jealous type, it doesn't matter where people meet, it eventually becomes an issue and a turn off and leads to failure.

Just be honest and hope that the other person will be mature enough and sympathetic to how their partner feels, and visa versa.

For any good prosperous lasting relationship to flourish, there always has to be some sort of compromise and honest communication.

I know a member who stopped going private for a long time because they realized that they were paying for something that was not real. If a person wants integrity and truth in their lives they have to decide what they deem appropriate for themselves. It is based upon the individuals morals, principles and perhaps how they were raised and the environment they learn their behavior from, good or bad.

I know the member met a cam model and she also asked this member not to go private. She didn't need that member to go private. He never went private with her but still they got to know each other quite well.

She also enjoyed this members company in her chat because she felt at ease and good when she saw their name in her chat, knowing that someone was there who did not objectify her, and showed her that they cared for her. She always asked the member to come see her in her chat. I surmise it was because it made her feel normal in a world where nothing is normal, per say.

The member at times would get jealous, so the only logical course of action was to say to her, I am going for awhile. Have a good shift and a good night. Of course, like you, they too chatted and met away from that cam environment and enjoyed each others company.

That member was poorer than you described. That member spoke to other members, whom were god friends at the time, about their feelings and reservations towards this woman who works as a cam model.

It lasted 2 years but ended with accusations and misunderstandings. I tend to think both had chips on their shoulders. And both were changed by the cam environment to some extent. But for those 2 years, it was serenity, and love.

I also agree with MissJane that for the most part, you and all the others are a dollar sign and most models will use any means or manner to earn your money, whether it is via the work setting or away from it. So be careful and use good judgement.

The advice is, think logically. Think with your head and not with Mr. Willie downstairs or with just your heart. Your biggest mistake, and take no offense with this, is that you paid for her shows in the past. It is possible to be successful after that but the odds are stacked against you.

I suggest that like others have written here, that you explain to her that you do not feel comfy watching her work but understand what she chooses to do. That is respecting her wishes and I hope she would do the same with yours and leads to compromise as I mentioned earlier. I think since you both chat away from her work it should be enough and if she really really does have true feelings for you, she can't wait to leave work and meet with you online and probably in real life(which you did mention). You can stop by if she asks but don't overstay your welcome, because you will not be allowed to stay over if you act immature or like a fool.

You need to decide whether you can accept her for who she is and what she does, as she should do the same for you. The best thing about accepting her choices is that it makes her realize that you really do care even if she knows it hurts you. If you can do that, then if her feelings are mutual, she will treat you the same way. That is what makes for a great relationship. Trial and error leads to wisdom, knowledge and experience. Think with you brain and not with your heart. Love can be blind at times. Nothing wrong with failure, it makes a person stronger and smarter.

But here is my disclaimer:

Not everything is as it appears.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#26 [url]

May 22 12 7:25 PM

QUOTE (MissJane @ May 21, 2012 10:00 pm)

Even if it is real it's still has its complications so I know it's still not easy But like I said... I can't just walk away from this because it may not end well. [/QUOTE]
Hmm well I am sorry to say it but I agree with most of the replies youve already gotten.

There are tons of red flags going up and while youve expressed displeasure in hearing about them I still feel the need to point them out, if not for you, then for others that may come here in the same situation...

She lives in a poor country, has been doing this work for years and is still not able to get ahead??

She is doing this work for years- so she is a pro. Its hard work. No one lasts for years with out a good hustle.

Your logic and reasoning about why you are not a good mark is exactly what makes you one.

Flip it around and see it from her pov. Cam sites traditionally take 70% of what you earn. That means for every 100 dollars you spent in prvt and tips she earns 30 dollars. Less taxes and expenses (internet, electricity, outfits, makeup etc). The profit margin is very low. Its hard, repetitive work. You do the same exhausting show over and over again. Stand up, bend over, lean back, spread legs, flip over, zoom in, zoom out, repeat. After 6 or 7 times in a few hours its exhausting. Not to mention the abuse you endure and the fake attention you have to constantly give.

So you feel because youre no longer a paying client youre safe. Logic says why turn a paying client into a non paying one... Well what are the advantages for her having you no longer being a "paying client". Hmm, well theres the tax free money for nothing. Every hundred you send goes right to her pocket. And what is she doing for it? Nothing. Nothing but chatting with you. In fact she even gains your support. Some one to bitch at about her lousy clients, some one who offers support when shes having a rough day. And what does she have to give in return?> Very very little. You are too far away to have to make any demands of her. She dosent have to see you, or go out with you. Youre there when she needs you and youre paying for it!

No youre not rich. But Ive said it before, being wealthy doesnt make you a good mark. Its about how much of what you do have youre willing to give for the least amount of effort or work on her part. Do you really believe you are the only guy sending her money like that?>

Youve said youve seen regulars in her room. People that have been on since the beginning. It takes a hustle to keep regulars like that. As a model you have to look at each member., evaluate them. See what it is they want and how to get the most out of them.

So if its a choice between pocketing 20 dollars or so from doing an exhausting exploitative show, or maintaining a mock friendship for the same if not more money.... well the smart choice is the latter...

Anyway. All that aside. I agree with the comment made about the only choice you have if you choose to remain in this situation is to avoid the chat room if you cant deal with it.

I remember when my now husband and I first got together and we were at that awkward stage of him being more then just a client but not yet my husband and he came into my room, we were chatting, but I was working and a similar situation happened. I was flirting/working/soliciting tips and prvts- and one guy made a comment about wanting to be with me. So of course I encouraged him to take us to prvt where we could discuss how great it would be and my husband got such an awful look on his face.

I called him out on it and all he could say was he forgot he had his cam on and I could see him scowling. So you know what I did? Because I had true feelings for him and wanted it to work. I made time for him outside of work. I changed my schedule and would spend time with him before my shift or after. I made it so he wouldnt have to come into my chat room to see me because it was uncomfortable for him and to be honest it became uncomfortable for me as well.

Its hard enough to lie and fake smile at wankers with out having to keep messaging him on the side oh I didnt mean that and having him watch me hustle on top of that.

Most cam girls dont have bfs or husbands because the level of jealousy is hard to deal with. And those that do work really hard to make it work. If shes not willing to work with you on it and make changes to account for your feelings then its not going to work out.

But please read what I said above about being an easy mark and think hard about it. Sometimes the truth is easy to see if you want to.

Thank you MissJane for your insights on this. I understand why you call my points red flags still... there are reasons behind things you pointed out and at least for me it can be explained. ALso I remember one guy in her chatroom.. .he had been there for 2 years and he obviously had a crush on her. He was there every single day. He even wanted to help her. Buy her gifts but she refused time and time again. When he noticed that a lot of her attention went to me he left. Also some other guys were there for 2 years or so... a lot of them vanished as she did not want to interact with them so much as she spent so much time on me. So if she would hustle... then why leave all those other easy marks just to be left with one single easy mark who doesn't have that much to offer?
I'm sure there is a red flag to be found again but probably every single situation can be explained in different ways.

Don't get me wrong. I do appreciate your comments and I did put all the things you mentioned to my situation. And I surely am not ruling out anything. I may be hustled. Who knows...But when do you know for sure? And how do you find out? Unless you stumble upon some lies then it's just your own judgement.

I have one question. You are married to someone who used to be a client. You also say that you do a little hustle with clients... so how did he know back then that you were not hustling him as well? What was different?

"There are things known and things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception"

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#27 [url]

May 22 12 7:43 PM

QUOTE (TRAINER @ May 22, 2012 01:03 am)
Ok, I think you made your point clear now, Mr. Perception.


I have been in the same predicament you are in.

You keep asking how to do deal with it and some very experienced and knowledgeable people have replied.

It appears as though you want and wish it to succeed and end happily ever after. Nothing in life is guaranteed, no where, not in the fantasy world of camming or in the reality of real life.

I understood that you stopped paying for shows.

I will tell you a few things from a person who was in your same position. Some of it applies not just to the world of camming and relationships but also in any relationships, anywhere.

Most partners do not like to be in relationships with jealous people. It creates mistrust and leads to arguements. I do believe there is room for some jealousy, because it shows to your partner that you have feelings for them and you care. Being too jealous, is a turn off and causes problems. If you are the jealous type, it doesn't matter where people meet, it eventually becomes an issue and a turn off and leads to failure.

Just be honest and hope that the other person will be mature enough and sympathetic to how their partner feels, and visa versa.

For any good prosperous lasting relationship to flourish, there always has to be some sort of compromise and honest communication.

I know a member who stopped going private for a long time because they realized that they were paying for something that was not real. If a person wants integrity and truth in their lives they have to decide what they deem appropriate for themselves. It is based upon the individuals morals, principles and perhaps how they were raised and the environment they learn their behavior from, good or bad.

I know the member met a cam model and she also asked this member not to go private. She didn't need that member to go private. He never went private with her but still they got to know each other quite well.

She also enjoyed this members company in her chat because she felt at ease and good when she saw their name in her chat, knowing that someone was there who did not objectify her, and showed her that they cared for her. She always asked the member to come see her in her chat. I surmise it was because it made her feel normal in a world where nothing is normal, per say.

The member at times would get jealous, so the only logical course of action was to say to her, I am going for awhile. Have a good shift and a good night. Of course, like you, they too chatted and met away from that cam environment and enjoyed each others company.

That member was poorer than you described. That member spoke to other members, whom were god friends at the time, about their feelings and reservations towards this woman who works as a cam model.

It lasted 2 years but ended with accusations and misunderstandings. I tend to think both had chips on their shoulders. And both were changed by the cam environment to some extent. But for those 2 years, it was serenity, and love.

I also agree with MissJane that for the most part, you and all the others are a dollar sign and most models will use any means or manner to earn your money, whether it is via the work setting or away from it. So be careful and use good judgement.

The advice is, think logically. Think with your head and not with Mr. Willie downstairs or with just your heart. Your biggest mistake, and take no offense with this, is that you paid for her shows in the past. It is possible to be successful after that but the odds are stacked against you.

I suggest that like others have written here, that you explain to her that you do not feel comfy watching her work but understand what she chooses to do. That is respecting her wishes and I hope she would do the same with yours and leads to compromise as I mentioned earlier. I think since you both chat away from her work it should be enough and if she really really does have true feelings for you, she can't wait to leave work and meet with you online and probably in real life(which you did mention). You can stop by if she asks but don't overstay your welcome, because you will not be allowed to stay over if you act immature or like a fool.

You need to decide whether you can accept her for who she is and what she does, as she should do the same for you. The best thing about accepting her choices is that it makes her realize that you really do care even if she knows it hurts you. If you can do that, then if her feelings are mutual, she will treat you the same way. That is what makes for a great relationship. Trial and error leads to wisdom, knowledge and experience. Think with you brain and not with your heart. Love can be blind at times. Nothing wrong with failure, it makes a person stronger and smarter.

But here is my disclaimer:

Not everything is as it appears.

Trainer, thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences.

I have had a talk with her and she felt very bad that I have a hard time seeing her when she is working. She tried to explain to me I should just see it as just work. I do try that but it is just hard at times. So we will try to keep our time outside of her workplace for now. She will make an adjustment in her schedule so we can talk at a time that works well for us both. In this way we can talk every day for a nice amount of time. If she has had any bad experiences at work then for me it is ok to talk about it after work as well. After all... I can complain about my job too at times

She urged me to keep communicating with her and if there is anything that is bothering me I should say it right away. Don't keep it in. I have to admit I did do that for a while as I did not want to bother her too much with my issues. I thought I could overcome them on my own but I couldn't.

So we shall see if the new schedule will work out and that I can be more comfortable with her job now that I won't be confronted with it directly anymore. Guess our planned meeting in the Summer will also show how things really are. If it will actually happen it would be a good sign already

"There are things known and things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception"

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#28 [url]

May 23 12 12:39 AM

LOL, Proximus... expensive? I could have asked for more but I don't want to appear greedy. The best ideas come from the least expected place,eh. I think you are going to create a website where you can be a matchmaker or tempt members into falling in love which in turn would increase your bottom line... just a silly presumption.

I am a bit confused though, you signed up here in December of 2011, how do we go way back as you say? Unless you were here under another login name....hmmm.

Perception... I noticed in your original post you mentioned you did meet her already. This meeting in the Summer is the first meeting or you had others,previously?

You continually ask "how can you be sure?"

You never can be sure as I said. You have to ask questions of her that may sound rude at times or find ways to "feel her motives out" as they say. I mentioned something about this long ago on this forum.

From what you write here, I would agree that based upon your lack of riches, that it really is hard to figure out why she chose you over others. It makes you think and think and rethink all the possiblities of ,why me?

Perhaps there is something she finds attractive about you physically or in the way you speak or you both just click and get along. I have no problems with you attempting to make this work or to find out if this can blossom. It is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

You most likely sit there in her chat or speak to her away from her work and ponder, over and over again, "why me". Why don't you ask her "why me". Someone used to tell me that the reason they spent quality time chatting and talking about anything and everything without asking for any privates or money was because they genuinely liked and were interested in the person. I bet sometimes you feel like you are exposing yourself completely naked and vulnerable to her. Hey, that's called trust. Don't disappoint or break that trust either. That goes for both of you.

I also want to point out, that there may be a few on this board that are cringing while reading this thread.

Sometimes, you need to learn to let your guard down but then in the world of camming, it is very hard to do.
Ok enough fatherly advice for awhile. I go crawl under my rock again.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#29 [url]

May 23 12 5:21 AM

Let me introduce myself. I am JavaJoe. The past few months I have enjoyed the topics on a regular basis but have never joined in with my thoughts. It is time to get off of my chair and post. This thread is as good of a place as any to join in.

First, let me extend a round of applause for some very good reading from all involved. I do not always agree with all that is posted. But none the less, it is good reading. Proximus, Lady Jane and CamGirl your posts are great. No offence to the rest of the moderating team. But if you want news about the war you listen to the soldiers, not the Generals.

I may be in the minority here for saying this. Doors of Perception I do not want to beat you up with a scathing post. Here is my advice. Go for it. Why not? In the end you have already decided to pursue the relationship. No one will talk you out of it. So, I say go for it.

You want advice? Listen to trainer. He put it more eloquently than my writing skills will allow. Honesty is the best answer. Call her on the phone tell her how you feel. Be sincere, honest and state your feelings without a jealous overtone. Tell her you are only human. Some jealousy is only normal. Surely she will understand. She must feel guilty on some level for having you in the room witness to all the sexual flirting with other men. Work out some other way to meet. There are many ways to connect other than adult web sites. Remember this is a job for her. If you cannot come to terms with her job and what happens during the interaction with others on this job, you will never be able to sustain the relationship long term.

Others will give you many reasons why you should not peruse this relationship and they are very good reasons. Heed the warnings and be advised. Do not be a Du-ck.

I will leave with a something to make you think.

[QUOTE] I do know where she lives and she knows I do not have a lot of money. She has been working for some years already and looking how other members react to her (some know her from the beginning) I don't think she is an actual scammer. I haven't seen anything suspicious but that doesn't mean anything. We will meet soon so I guess I will find out soon as well.[QUOTE]

My advise to you is to make your relationship a much like real life as possible and as far away from virtual. Doors of Perception forgive me, but not knowing where your girlfriend lives is not like real life. That is 180 degrees polar opposite from real life. That is a virtual life.

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#30 [url]

May 23 12 6:18 PM

Trainer and javajoe, thank you both for your posts. Now I am getting the help with the questions that I have

You're both absolutely right that honesty is the key to it all and not to be afraid to open yourself up. Even though there is always the risk of 'getting burned' but then again... there's always that risk no matter in what type of relationship you're in. I have been left heartbroken in 'regular/normal' relationships too. It could also happen here. It may not. As you all know by now. I am determined to find out. I do understand the many pitfall and risks etc involved. But after reading all your posts and thinking about it hard... well, like I have said before: if this turns out to be a fluke then I will have lost some time and some money. Losing time... well.. if you never try anything then you'll always be stuck with nothing. The money I don't really care about. As long as I can live a normal life (and I surely am not planning on going broke on her) I am fine with it. That would leave with the broken heart thing but it's just picking up the pieces and move on if that would happen. I've done that before

I will tell her more about how I feel about it without going crazy over it. The most important 'task' for me will be to accept her job as it is. And to find a way to make it a little easier on myself (like not staying in her chatroom when she works).

One thing I have to ask Javajoe. You wanted me to think about something I said... that NOT knowing where my girlfriend lives is not like real life. But I said I DO know where she lives... or is that what you meant to say? That knowing where she lives has nothing to do with real life? I got a little confused here
I do like your advise though: make the relationship as much as a real life relationship as possible.

I did have a virtual relationship in the past as well. It lasted long and it turned into a good real life relationship for many years. Unfortunately we grew apart in the end but that had nothing to do with the fact that we started out in the virtual world
And yes, I also had a virtual relationship before that ended in tears (for me)... so I have had both good and bad experiences with it

One more thing I have to say about the red flags. I understand that people see them but I also said before that I do not want to share everything about the relationship and why to me the red flags are not so. I know now I made a mistake by jumping between two thoughts. Initially I did not want to say anything about it as my question was not if I stand a chance or if you think that this relationship would work. But right from the start I felt 'attacked' and I wanted to defend myself a little without giving all the background away either. I realise that this was a mistake on my behalf. I should have just let the comments be for what they were and just keep on asking for an answer to my original question. My apologies for this confusion and unnecessary communications.

As Trainer said: you just can't tell for sure if it's for real or not. You go with what your mind and gut tell you and that's all you can do. That goes for virtual and real life relationships. Scamming/pretending etc is not a trade exclusive to the cam world. I have seen plenty of people in my environment who got burned in 'conventional' relationships as well. For some reason people see this as normal but when it comes to the virtual world it's suddenly a horror show. I agree that the chance for it to happen is larger in the cam world due to its nature but basically when it comes to love.... you're never safe and your heart is always on the line
It's your choice if you are willing to put it on the line or not. There just are no guarantees.

As for me. As you know by now: I have accepted the risks and after thinking it all through the last couple of days I have come to the conclusion... why the hell not. Even if it's against all odds... I don't have much to lose here (in my opinion).
So I am definitely not saying that I know I am right and you are wrong. I don't know what will happen and I do agree with you that the chances are not in my favour... but what the hell... I like a challenge

Your advice has surely helped me. I do not mean the first scathing posts. I am sure you meant well and tried to 'wake me up' . For me it was just too much. Perhaps the cold buckets of ice water helps on others but not on me LadyJane, Trainer, Javajoe and EmileBetrand... thank you very much for your insights and advice.
And even if you would think I am a fool thank you for not talking to me like I am one



"There are things known and things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception"

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#31 [url]

May 23 12 8:00 PM

Trainer...

"I think you are going to create a website where you can be a matchmaker or tempt members into falling in love which in turn would increase your bottom line... just a silly presumption."

...warm...but not exactly hot...will let you know when ready !

But why you always take all negative or start being paranoia Trainer ?
When i joke, you take it serious...
When i try to be friendly, you react hosile...

Jeez you are hard to please...what/who hurted you so much ?
I really like your critic point of view and i even like discussing with you
but I would like you to take all a little more light...
Not to mix in your life, but because I wish you to be more happy once and a while !

Doors_of_Perception

Man o man...
You are way to much blabla abou thtis, see ?
You love her ? You want to share your life with her ?
Go for it !
What you need to hear here ? How to make her stop work online ?
To learn how to handle watching other guys jerking on her ?
Be serious, be a man...or you go for it...or you stop this, take the blow and
in few weeks you will be fine again...

javajoe

"Proximus, Lady Jane and CamGirl your posts are great"

Thank you very much JavaJoe !
A bow for the applause !
Trainer see this ? Yeeha, finally i have a supporter here !!!
JavaJoe...you are MORE than WELCOME here !!!

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#32 [url]

May 24 12 12:40 AM

Ok, Perception, go for it and good luck.

Now to go off on a tangent,lol.

Proximus, you definitely are a perfect match for the cam business. You remind me of many a cam model I have spoken with in the past.

What I mean by that is:

1) Avoid answering any direct questions that might incriminate oneself

2)Never admit you could be wrong

3)Keep them guessing and never divulge anything that could give your hand away(poker play)

With all the experience and years of talking to people whom I met virtually online that is associated with the business of camming, I tend not to believe anything, trust anyone or perhaps I just don't like the business for what it is worth or all about.

From the pirates to the scammer, from the liars, manipulators, cheaters and downright douchebags and obsessed perverts and beggars, there is nothing that I find in the least appealing to me anymore. I have seen enough and met enough people from that world that changed my view towards people in general.

I think one of my best friends who happens to be a cam model, told me the best advice. Don't trust, don't believe and don't look for anything in that virtual world.

As someone from the past also summed it up quite well.... it is nothing but "fodder".

No offense meant, I know how you guys feel about members, take their money, treat them like kings, stroke their egos and laugh all the way to the bank.

Proximus, you never answered my question... pay attention and re-read it and answer it, or perhaps humor me. I do not have to be nice to anyone I meet in the cam business or respectful because from the first day I made that fateful decision to enter into that world, I was disrespected, judged and stereotyped. No offense, but take those words to the bank and deposit them. camgirlnotes/bq.gif

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#33 [url]

May 24 12 11:47 AM

Trainer,

I make you compliments...
I try to be funny with you...
I surely want to add some good stuff here...

And I absolutely not want to fight with you or anyone else here...

But i guess I am entiteled to my own opinion also, right ?
You mention your experience...but your experience will always be based
on the virtual side...see ?
My experience is from the field, from behind the screen, see ?

And I shared already many information, which you from your side can never know.

That is something you don't want to accept...

I don't have any idea about which questions you speak which I would not to answer ?
Please repeat and I will answer, why not ?

OK ?

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#34 [url]

May 24 12 12:52 PM

cool.gif Proximus, don't worry.. You are only our real source on the Ukraine who's remained active with us.. From now on, You are our "in country expert" for the Ukraine, as well as one of our industry insiders. And I am not kidding.

I also appreciate that you - like Bambalina in her own way - are resisting the worst marketing trends in Adult Video Chat - everything we can see on MFC or Streamate terms of tip shows and promotional vids - that put the anonymity and personal security of cam models at risk in their home countries.. So Chapeau, Proximus...your efforts are recognized and appreciated by me - at least.

UL
--------------------
Click here to view the attachment

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#35 [url]

May 24 12 7:11 PM

Merci Mon Oncle Louis !

Je fais ce que je peut...

I appreciate your statement !

About the idea you all gave me, I will inform you when we are ready...
(I don't like to show something not 100% working)

It is really the filling of a niche, 100% clear and correct, for all involved...
Like i said, born out of my presence here...
like a result of all what i read here...

But ok, will inform you when time is right !

Thanks again for the support !

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#36 [url]

May 24 12 9:20 PM

Most important: Never watch her working. Even when it's her birthday or christmas or whatever... don't watch her doing her job.

As already mentioned: Try to communicate during times when she doesn't work.


Good luck!

----


This is my first post. I want to say thank you to everybody contributing to this forum. You helped me a lot the last two years. I met my girlfriend in a private show almost two years ago. We are still in love and it works fine. But our first year was tough.

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#37 [url]

May 24 12 10:38 PM

I see this will go off track but what the hell.

Your replies, Proximus, just like many others indicate how little you truly are not reading and looking at this from one point of view.

You see when you and others ask or suggest to "take things light" or "stop looking at it negatively" or "don't make it personal", well if you only knew how personal it became.

To sum it up, we have quite a few members of this board who did take it to a more personal level. I could rattle off at least 10 names quite quickly but I am tired of proving how blind some are to another point of view.

But I will use just two example, to back up what you seem to gloss over and not comprehend how personal things get. I will just touch the surface and enlighten you a tad, just so I can amuse myself(see I can have some fun while proving how you won't even think past how programmed you and many appear to be) at your expense.

1) Miss Jane- seems to me she took it quite personal enough to marry a client, regardless that her husband did pay for her time, but she never viewed him as a client. It is kind of interesting how one alters the concept of the definition of what a client is to individuals or for themselves. But the point is, she made it quite personal and got married. Hmmm... Unless someone would like to alter the definition of personal to me for their own justification, I need another good laugh.

2) Let's choose our new arrival, Mr. Perception, it appears he is taking it to a personal level as well. Unless you would like to debate me again and deny the facts of these 2 examples of which I can show more than two to persuade you to change your mind regarding the debates over, members meeting models, or perhaps everything I mention or have written you believe applies to what I, alone experienced and that it never occurs anywhere else.

I really think you enjoy trying to toy with me like others have here. Reminds me of the business model employed within the world of camming. I don't find that amusing in the least. Now I am not making this personal either, just simply pointing out how personal things can become. Now please if you do not mind stop playing games and answer my simple question(s), I would enjoy another hardy laugh at anothers expense. But I doubt you will, because you might incriminate yourself and that is not a good thing when people try to maintain the status quo or adhere to the one goal that you are always striving to achieve and perfect.

So in summation, please don't try to humor me, tell me that I am speaking out of my arse, or know nothing, or to even lighten up as one member long ago got really angry at me for being such a prick, when I caught them playing head games with a model I knew quite well. Oh well, I guess that comes with the territory and the true definition of "fodderville". I am entitled to my opinion as you and others are, and really find it amusing how the "spin" finds its way on this forum often. People really should take a step back and look at things more objectively before they write things sometimes.

I do acknowledge that you do not want to have people get hurt just like me, and others on this board, but honestly, between you and I, we know better don't we.

Now Uncle, will spank me for speaking my mind and tell me to lighten up. Ha, why should anyone lighten up when things get personal.(Catch my drift,yet). There are suckers born every minute, and some people enjoy the riches it can create.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#38 [url]

May 25 12 3:29 AM

QUOTE
I do know where she lives and she knows I do not have a lot of money.

Doors of perception….I am sorry for the mis-qoute. My apologies. My weary eyes mis-read your statement. I stand corrected. I must have injected a "Not" in there somewhere in the beginning. My bad. BTW…you need a shorter name. LOL Doors of Perception is a pain in the ass to type.

The point I was trying to make is this. Keep the relationship like real life. You have made it clear you are going pursue this girl. Ok. We get that. As I said before “go for it, why not”. However, make it as much like in real life as possible. Stay out of The Adult Disneyland Known as Camland.

Be creative.

Do a web search, Google for different ways to make a long distance relationship work. I do not know the answers... you figure it out.

Take advantage of your webcam. Watch A TV program you enjoy. Then it is your turn to watch one she enjoys from her country. Cook her a dinner, Watch YouTube videos …..see my point? These things are just like real life. As your time together is more and more away from Camland you will find your personal problems with her job will also disappear.

But, if she resists the real life aspect of your relationship and you find everything is centered in the adult chat forum. If you communicate mostly through Adult chat. If you find yourself in the trapped in the many pitfalls that have been written about here. Then you need to ask yourself this.

Is the relationship real or is it virtual? Only you can answer that.




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#39 [url]

May 25 12 11:18 AM


I think it's more important to figure if you have a real relationship or not rather than figure how to deal with her job. If you 2 would live together and see her anytime, you woudlnt feel so insecure about her work, because you are more real for her than the chatters. But it's not the case - you relationship is more virtual than real, and in virtual world she has other fans too.I think the issue would be easier to deal with if you were together closer in real life. About the perspective - we are living in a world of changing and insecurity, and there are men who feel that even if the girlfriend doenst have an adult job. A charming woman will always turn the others head simply by her presence in public, not mentioning that even for getting a normal job the charm counts a lot. The only way of keep her away of other men eyes is to lock her in a tower with no windows

You cannot be part of the crowd and achieve your dream at the same time.

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#40 [url]

May 25 12 11:43 AM

Trainer,

I want to stop this, again, cause this forum is about all, except about you !

You keep shouting reproaches towards me...totally un-fundamented !

Always repeating i don't answer your questions...
Where are your questions, damn...?
What questions ?

You are just a frustrated, deeply-hurt guy who tries to write all off here.
Well, i ain't gonna be your therapy anymore. LOL.

I tried polite, friendly and understanding with you.
It is clear nothing helps.

Take all your frustrations and put them where the sun doesn't shine !

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