#41 [url]

May 25 12 8:54 PM

You made me laugh this time. Be patient here readers, I will return to the topic at hand in a moment.

You do not even listen or pay attention to what I wrote. I get it. You have subjective reading issues, that means you only read what you want to read, similar to people hearing only certain things that interest them or capture their attention, or something in which they find common link.

You told me that after all the time in the past where we went at it for a long time that we could find a common ground to level out the playing field so to speak. I then asked you, since your avatar here displays that you have only been a member on this forum since December of last year, when, where and who were you prior to joining this forum as Proximus.

I didn't even post here for almost 2 months this year which whittles down the length of time we could have even spoke via this forum. So after 6 months-(1+2) months, leaves 4 months total that we could possibly have exchanged words here. So I asked who were you here prior to joining as Proximus if we go way back? Care to enlighten me? Please don't make me quote your own words here to remind you again what you wrote.

What I write here is a mix of some of my opinions and experience, and much more from the many discussions I had with cam models and members. I am not frustrated as you wish to portray, but I do dislike anything that involves the work of camming and how it displays itself to its clients as a general business model and the ethics it uses to earn profits.

It ain't about me, sir, it is about telling both sides of the business, with the good, the bad, and the ugly of it all. If it was all hunky dory, then why would members other than me, have fears and worries and seek advice as to what is real or what is fake? Just like Mr. Perception here, is a good point of contention that I am referring to where individuals no longer wish to spend their time, effort, and hard earned money in a world of fantasy. Many others have spoken as to the deceptions, the lies, and the scammers that seem to appear or rear their heads in the online business of camming. I also point out, that I am using other peoples words now in my description of it all.

I will say this, I know of quite a few individuals who did exactly what javajoe is advising Mr. Perception to attempt. I did it as well. Do you honestly comprehend any of the written words here,why he, or I, or tben(another example) from the past and others tried to get across to the performers, the admins, the studio bosses that your business is fake, it conducts itself in a manner that creates nothing of worth, rarely is honest and ethical, and manipulates individuals on boths sides using all sorts of fun and games.

I am writing off the fact that when I first found this cam world, you and I, would more likely be great buddies, but over time, it is the very business model and bullshit, and the manner in which individuals use any means necessary to remove a person of their hard earned money.

Perhaps, saying to the gullible member from a model:

1)I love you so much

2) I missed you

3) You are my friend

4) I want to be your girlfriend

5) I want to marry you

6) I want to meet you(although that does happen and sometimes the above does happen too),but of course I debated that very thing on this board and here is concrete evidence, yet either it is a scam or it is the truth. I know the truth and for all the past written on here where people say it does not occur, well you all can believe whatever you wish, I guess.

Damn, isn't that ironic, look at the topic at hand now and what I just wrote. The appearance seems that for those like you, and many others, you have labeled it a job. You have learned to instruct women who are scantily clad, willing to do anything for money,who will physically, sexually, or mentally etc etc use any means necessary to have a person spend their money believing that what many of these women say and do is believeable and the truth to the average joe. You have taken something of great value and enjoyment and diminished the very definition of it, into a job and placed a price upon it. It is ironic how you said I was warm or close to what I believe may be you new "beta" idea in a recent post of yours.

Now back to the topic at hand....

Perception, heed javajoe's advice,he understands the difference between reality and fantasy. Everyone in this thread is telling you to get away from your computer and these websites, and live in the reality that life is supposed to be all about. Even camgirl states that. In a subtle way she is hinting to you, to get away from the interaction and the fantasy of camsites. They are also warning you that it could also be "it ain't what it appears to be".

Proximus, all these people admitting here that the cam world is not a good place to meet women, is quite obvious as to how honorable, trustworthy and uses integrity when interacting with others. It is all fodder and you, me and all who have been there and are there are fodder. Another word I stole from someone else.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#42 [url]

May 25 12 9:56 PM

Many words, but no content...like always.

You fail to see the humor in "we go way back" and start to count how many months we could have talked ?
Come on Trainer ? Come back to earth please ?

You say your experience comes from many talks with models...
the same models which a little later call liars and cheaters ?
That is your trustful source ?

You have many opinions, yet all sour and bitter...which shows your disgust of this bizz, so why bother ?

You call us all what is dirty and philty, taking peoples hard earned money ?
By my knowing, people are not forced to spend money on our sites, but come back again and again searching companion or a quick jerk.
Looks to me as "question and demand"...

We are back at the beginning Trainer...
As long as there is "demand", there will be offer...see ?

I find it quite interesting to come crying here after spending avarage 4 or 5 months their pay-bill to few girls...
finding out that the love was not real...
starting to puke all what is inside on that bad business...
and the ones who organise it...
It's their fault, of course ! Right ?

Yeah, it is me who teaches the girls to get members to fall in love with them !
LOL, get real !
You know how it goes Trainer ?
The models are motivated to earn a nice salary, that is true (who isn't ?)
Therefor they take a lot of crap and nonsense every day...
Amongst the crap...also the "softies"...taking every possible imagined "signal" from the model as "she likes me"...
I have seen 1000 of conversations on logs how it goes...
The next day, they are there again...of course the model sees this and is friendly to the returned guy...he is a possible habitué..."see, she is soo friendly, she thinks i am special"...hey, who doesn't want to feel "special" ? Right ?
And days go by...weeks, months...
And there comes the moment (mostly after 4 or 5 paychecks went entirely to Visa)
to ask her secretly her Skype or mail..."since we are friends right ?"
(in real it is : auch 4 paychecks already)....
If our guy is lucky he gets it from the model...because she wants to have contact with him ? Nope, because he could yet spend some money as client...
Now he is happy...he sends mails...but oops...no or short answers...why is that ?
He comforts himself by saying she is soo busy...right ?
And when not working, there is her sick brother or mother or whatever...
In real it is her husband or bf...or even want to be left alone...see ?

Is that rude ? Nope...cause why she should "work" for free ? Do you ?
Or why she should let you enter her private life ?
Because you think she loves you ? LOL !

Guys, it is live-adult-entertainment...
You enjoy it for what it is !

Ooo, but she told me also she loved me...why that ?
Listen, you wanted to hear this...true or not ?
She often didn't answer the question right ?
But you insisted...and she confirmed after a while !
Because you come back and back and back...

Come on..it is virtual, get it ?

Is it bad ? Nope...
You get what you came to get !

If you all honesty think about this...you will have to admit...it is true...
If you search a wife...date !
If you come to virtual online webcam-sites...you get virtual...

I rest my case ! Think about it !
From our side, we pitty you suckers who fall for a model..it hurts, i know...
but come to think about it...you will heal...and understand !

Feel free to discuss with me if you don't agree !
I will gladly answer...on all decent and polite questions...
(except from Trainer - teasing him but he will get angry now)

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#43 [url]

May 26 12 7:07 AM

QUOTE (javajoe @ May 25, 2012 03:29 am)

Doors of perception….I am sorry for the mis-qoute. My apologies. My weary eyes mis-read your statement. I stand corrected. I must have injected a "Not" in there somewhere in the beginning. My bad. BTW…you need a shorter name. LOL Doors of Perception is a pain in the ass to type.

The point I was trying to make is this. Keep the relationship like real life. You have made it clear you are going pursue this girl. Ok. We get that. As I said before “go for it, why not”. However, make it as much like in real life as possible. Stay out of The Adult Disneyland Known as Camland.

Be creative.

Do a web search, Google for different ways to make a long distance relationship work. I do not know the answers... you figure it out.

Take advantage of your webcam. Watch A TV program you enjoy. Then it is your turn to watch one she enjoys from her country. Cook her a dinner, Watch YouTube videos …..see my point? These things are just like real life. As your time together is more and more away from Camland you will find your personal problems with her job will also disappear.

But, if she resists the real life aspect of your relationship and you find everything is centered in the adult chat forum. If you communicate mostly through Adult chat. If you find yourself in the trapped in the many pitfalls that have been written about here. Then you need to ask yourself this.

Is the relationship real or is it virtual? Only you can answer that.

Hey JavaJoe. You make an excellent point. I have to try to make this relationship as real as possible and steer it away from the virtual world. I like the ideas you have given me so I will surely try those out.

Hehehe... you can call me Doors from now on if that is easier for you



"There are things known and things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception"

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#44 [url]

May 26 12 7:25 AM

QUOTE (camgirl @ May 25, 2012 11:18 am)
I think it's more important to figure if you have a real relationship or not rather than figure how to deal with her job. If you 2 would live together and see her anytime, you woudlnt feel so insecure about her work, because you are more real for her than the chatters.

Hi Camgirl. thank you very much for your reply. I think you're right on the money here Javajoe also mentioned it: I have to figure out how real this relationship is.

I thought about what you said and it's indeed true that I feel insecure about this as we are not living together and see her anytime. The only thing I have right now is the online relationship. Soon I will go to visit her and stay with her for a while. That will be a start then. Before that time I will be creative as Javajoe suggested and also make this relationship as real as it can be.

I think you are right that I will feel secure once I know for sure this relationship is real. So it's time to find that out then

Thank you again camgirl for bringing this up. This is very valuable to me.

"There are things known and things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception"

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#45 [url]

May 26 12 7:50 PM

My apologies for intertwining mine and Proximus' go at it here as a side bar,but when you look at it, it is quite relevant to the topic at hand.

Ok Proximus, you made a humorless joke. I didn't understand your bad attempt at humor. So of course we do not go way back except possibly both our length of time on opposite sides of the data stream.

Now to the juicy stuff...

Let's dissect it bit by bit,shall we.

I am disgusted with the business model. I totally agree with you that these members come back returning over and over again, looking for something. The sheer loneliness of finding something to fill their time and the void within their lives is so obvious. We both understand that and we can't deny them the freedom of that choice. I wrote quite a few times on this board way way back long ago, regarding the supply and demand. You say it here and now. So obviously, I was correct in that regard,no or yes? Each and every time I write something here, that people either can't fathom, wish not to admit to, or then at some later date and time, someone comes along and repeats the same diatribe of what I may have mentioned so long ago, yet from their mouths it is golden and from mine it is utter nonsense and bullshit.

One thing, I was quite grounded in your reference to coming down to Earth, hence I don't put up with all the manipulative bullshit that the business model of camming seems to use as its primary source to earn profits. That is why I ended quite a few relationships I did have with models or members.

You see, I as well as quite a few others, from the other side of your demand economic side, know quite well that there ain't a lick of reality within the fun and entertainment industry you call it. It's funny because you call it virtual and live adult entertainment.... well it is more than that. There is no entertainment value when people seriously do get scammed or lied to or taken advantage of. I know you will think about all the other things on this planet that people use to do the same thing. But, in this virtual world it is more common practice and is like taking candy from a baby.

It is the very desperation and disrespect that makes people fool each other for the sake of money. Now you get real. All those instruction manuals from websites and those nice websites or forums that are on the internet that instruct and discuss how to take money from a baby is not fake. It is an organized effort to teach people how to milk people dry. If you bothered reading some of the threads I or Uncle or Emile post from other forums, one can read the real entertainment value your supply chain brings to the table.

You say there is no content to my writing here. The content is out there, you just do not wish to open your eyes to the other side of this all.

I truly do not get the inference that you are not complicit or the women,as well. who do this work and supply the steady stream of willing entertainment for the horny lustful porn addicted masses.

There are women who do this work who want no part of the fact that a lonely horny person would wish to further their ego stroking minds to have additional fun away from the website work.
Then there are those who use the very topic you brought up to win over a gullible person to think they may have a possibility to engage in some sort of relationship. Yet for the most part, that is usually based upon some sort of financial transaction.

We can use all those stupid ridiculous, raffles, or win a date, or chip in donations to easily manipulate a gullible or addicted person to handing over their money easily. It is so simple and easy, ain't it. Or to provide skype shows on the side, or to pay to get a phone number(ofc- u provide and create work yahoo id's or skype id's for the business) or perhaps auctioning off email addresses or wishlists. All for the sole purpose of raking in the money.

Yet, as you believe, I fell for that? Now you get real. There are ways to work around your rules that you place upon your employees. There are so many ways to defeat the system and remember, some employees do not like their bosses, and find ways around a tight ship as well.

Now regarding those liar who I use as my sources, do not become too narrow minded, my sources are huge, and not just from cam models alone. But I do admit that for the few that did attempt to create a real life relationship with me, I warned them don't ever lie or screw me over. Well now you can take your assumption and throw it in your trash, because for those broken relationships, they came at a price. And I remind you it was quite personal and did not have anything related to the virtual fake world of the business you conduct. So please stop mixing the two. The only thing in common with that world was that they worked as cam models. But I also remind you now that as hard as it was to achieve some form of a real meaningful friendship or romantic relationship with them away from their "jobs", that it was their own lack of maturity or inability to separate themselves from what your industry has shown them or taught them. Perhaps they were like that before but this business did not teach them how to be real or how to separate what becomes a part of their own personality. The minute I found out or experienced something that showed their true bad intentions, it was brought up and ended. I have no time for fake liars who can play a good con game.

Congratulations on another aspect that this adult entertainment brainwashes a young woman into becoming.

I won't even reply to your thoughts about members paying to fall in love and then becoming angry towards the poor women who in some small way"did" I repeat, "did" give subtle innuendos or flirts or any other manner to hook that member into believing that a real relationship could blossom or be real. You now blame it solely on the members, well I spent countless hours and research proving that is not the case, read some of my posts referring to that. Of course, you and many others do not wish to, because it makes the business look bad. You can't even admit that it is both sides faults. Or admit that this is not all good for all involved. Now who really is more subjective and who is more objective when they view this all?

Finally for the rare gems of the people including cam models who were mature enough and not brainwashed by the business model to view things from an alternate perspective, those are real people and friends. Not this hogwash I read daily that goes on within the fantasy world of camming or when I see individuals who think paying for friendship or relationships is the normal proper thing to create them.

I came here to learn on this forum. And I sure did. I came here to also contribute with truth and some manner to protect individuals who could get hurt, both models and members alike. But all I ever read is how I talk shit or nonsense and then eventually along comes someone who shows you all that what I write about does happen and does occur. And then to read models who boast and brag about it being a scam or some game while they laugh all the way to the bank. Isn't that a bit obvious to an outsider who may read here, that it ain't normal or positive? I guess I am completely wrong again, because either you or either me have become so desensitized and numb to the obvious. That what we are actually discussing her, becomes personal but you blow it off, just like you blow off the fact that women will shove their arms elbow high up their rectums for the sake of money. Or try to entice some lonely person into becoming hooked that they can have a real meaningful relationship in a world you and others describe as fantasy,entertainment and not real. So it is just an average job I presume as you say. But it involves people not inanimate objects. But there is the real truth about this business, everyone becomes an object, don't they?

By the way. You must laugh at those logs, don't you? Or if you were not so desensitized you might cry and feel sorry for the members who become addicted or trapped in this field of entertainment.

Wy are you resting your case, I totally agree with you in most of your last post here. I know the same thing you know, I just got you to admit to what I have been writing about on this board.

P.S.- Tsk Tsk Proximus, you should place a disclaimer when you admit it's:

QUOTE
Come on..it is virtual, get it ?

Is it bad ? Nope...
You get what you came to get !

If you all honesty think about this...you will have to admit...it is true...
If you search a wife...date !
If you come to virtual online webcam-sites...you get virtual...

I rest my case ! Think about it !
From our side, we pitty you suckers who fall for a model..it hurts, i know...
but come to think about it...you will heal...and understand !


Isn't that something, he has pity for all of us but still wants you to enjoy yourselves. Hmmm.... interesting..... you just want horny perverts to line your pockets, because "it is what it is" Hey there is a quote from someone I had words with here. But as another example they also attempted to teach people here that this all is really truly fucked up and disgusting,but just can't admit to that because they need to choose sides over another. How truly disturbing that is that people benefit from other peoples weaknesses or misfortunes or fortunes.

Now aren't you a bit worried now Mr. Perception? Quite easy to notice the writing on the wall but can you please read it closely.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#46 [url]

May 26 12 10:21 PM

Mister Know-it-all...

you ain't getting my message...maybe like this you will understand :

this virtual entertainment, is what it is...till the member starts to feel "more" and tries to pitty and "help"...
that moment...the member hopes/wants/ it to be real...
but the virtual doesn't stop...by his wishful thinking...

when he realizes this...he gets mad and angry and frustrated...and starts to call the business bad
the business which he feeded...which he adored when he liked the virtual...

but no...he cannot leave it at that...he needs to get real !

What i fight about here is exactly that !
Let the virtual, be virtual and enjoy !

From the moment you guys get real, or think to have to be real...
the problems start !

It is what it is !

And Trainer, you messure yourself way to much knowledge in this field...
My opinion, you ain't nothing but a soure loser...ever wanted to make the virtual, real ! I am 100% sure, that is what makes you soo...frustrated !

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#47 [url]

May 27 12 1:10 PM

Yeah yeah, the virtual the virtual the virtual. It's all about the virtual.

Yet there are those who somehow find their way around the virtual.

People will sit in those chat rooms ogling, drooling and fawning over their self proclaimed loves of their lives. Rambling on and on, about how they love the model and the model says she misses them or has missed them. Or they blow those virtual kisses or send kisses visually because it just touches the central nervous system of a member who is ripe for the picking. Ever watch that happen? It's hilarious, yet of course as you and I say it is virtual.

How about the members who actually mention in free chat too much personal info of the model they have some connection with?

So what you are stating is that for all the exchanges of love and friendship, in this virtual manner that it means nothing, has no meaningful worth, and is just some childish ego stroking. I used to laugh inside when I would take a model private not seeking anything but the virtual exchange of sextertainment and she would blow kisses or write kiss kiss muah muah. I wanted to puke many times because it is such a farce as you say, that to actually believe it would be to admit that I am blind to it all.

See what you can't get past, is that for me and for quite a few others, it got real. In fact maybe I might stop by and ring or knock on the doors of the virtual loves and friends I met in the past, just to say thanks for the fond memories.

QUOTE
this virtual entertainment, is what it is...till the member starts to feel "more" and tries to pitty and "help"...
that moment...the member hopes/wants/ it to be real...
but the virtual doesn't stop...by his wishful thinking...

when he realizes this...he gets mad and angry and frustrated...and starts to call the business bad
the business which he feeded...which he adored when he liked the virtual...

but no...he cannot leave it at that...he needs to get real !


He needs to get real hmmm.... well Doors is, Miss Jane did, I did, many of some people I know did, should I name a few from this forum in addition?

See you can't get past the part where members and models are meeting. To you it is not happening because you continue to state that it never happens(well perhaps with your harem it is true), but generally for independent models who do not have a boss to tell them what to not do or do, they have the freedom to meet personally.
So I will only use your virtual arguement here, which amounts to nothing about nothing of the topic at hand, because as you say you discourage and punish your employees from attempting to take this from the "virtual" to the real. It hurts the bottom line of yours.

All you want is to keep it virtual. You can't accept that it can get personal. Yet the proof is written in many places yet your only arguement is based upon your virtual virtual virtual. lack of content and lack of a viable opposing arguement in this subject.

Hey, Uncle perhaps a survey or questionaire for the visitors here. But keep it from becoming too personal(oops how is that possible?)

Questions to members and models alike:

1) Have you ever met a member or someone you met in your work?

2) Have you ever actually fallen in love or became friends with someone you met online?

Stuff like that would settle this little debate between Proximus and I.

Or should we peruse the forum here and count how many have gone past the virtual and made it real?

Sorry Proximus, I lost and learned some hard lessons, you are begiining to sound a bit childish here and now. Typical of when someone in this business gets confronted with an obvious truth. They tend to have nothing concrete to grasp from so their straws they grasp become personal, as you have now called me a sore loser. Perhaps I am also a frustrated sore loser. You just can't get past this point that I will quote in a minute and that is where you fail miserably.



QUOTE
My opinion, you ain't nothing but a soure loser...ever wanted to make the virtual, real ! I am 100% sure, that is what makes you soo...frustrated !


Now seriously, who is frustrated?

You have Uncle here point out a few times about models who made it real. I will let that fact slide, I guess, because it didn't come from the tip of my fingers or written by me.
You have Doors, and some other members here from this forum who actually met models. I won't even mention their names, yet they penned their admissions not me. Yet here in your quote, I want to make it real? I am not even talking about me now. Please, you are 100% sure of nothing in which we are discussing now. Perhaps when I meet my good friend I will share some photos here but then it all is virtual, I assume. Notice I used assume this time. I am a winner Mr. Proximus, a winner because I acknowledge what a farce and pity as you said this virtual world portrays itself to be. I am a winner, because I personally met some real individuals. I am a winner because no matter how hard you try to spin a good light on this business, I know the truth. It is a win- win situation for me these days. No more fodder, no more virtual bullshit, no more believing the hype.

I suggest for many out there don't get hooked into that virtual pit he says enjoy enjoy enjoy, he and I know it ain't that nice a place.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#48 [url]

May 27 12 3:04 PM

Trainer,

you just keep on "blabla" from your experience...as a member...as a client...

you don't even bother to try to see the point from the other side...

in your narrow mind, you ain't even want to see...

so "blabla" on, how much and when ever you want...

I don't have time, nor the will to keep trying enlightening that there are more sides to this story...more than yours only...

I hope others did find something useful in this all...

Hasta La Vista

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#49 [url]

May 28 12 1:47 PM

This is truly an observation in no content on your part.

I will eliminate myself from the mix as you say it is all based upon just my experiences.

Let me elaborate with just the tip of the iceberg since you are attempting to discredit my words here that have no content.

Delfina- damn I knew a member she met twice. She married an American. Where did they meet? In virtual online chat rooms?

Miss Jane- She met her hubby in the virtual world.

If you care to bother to read others who have posted here, I think we could raise the total to at least 10 easily.

Ah yes allow me to throw myself into the mix now, my good friend who happens to be a cam model, I never met at her cam job. I have never been her client or her customer. Yet you constantly throw water on my proof because you have no content or evidence to back up your writing that it is all about me here and now and that I am wrong. Just bla bla bla.

This all also plays into the threads regarding sex tourism or perhaps non sexual tourism. I know many a cam model who have told me their friends or colleagues have met members. How about all those members that know the clubs and points of interest in a small example here, in Bucharest.

Now for the other side of it in which you say I have no clue. Well, I surely know that most of the "virtual" bla bla bla of wishing to meet or being invited are likely scams to milk a customers dollar or Euro, which when we couple that with the real meetings just entices members to continue to try their luck at it.

Hey for those models who avoid or dislike the requests for meeting members, it really is bla bla bla, if so many bring up that thought. I wonder where they got that idea from though. Certainly not from Mr. Proximus. Certainly not from Camgirl here. But I guess, it never occurs and is not useful or noteworthy because Doors here will try to meet his friend.

What more sides to this story? Enlighten me please.

How about the Romanian cam model who told me how a member went to visit his so called love in her country only to have his wallet and belongings stolen as well as her items, by the models boyfriend.

How about the fact that she admitted to me that members are called "socks" or "ducks" to scam their worldly possessions from.

Ah, I apologize for being too subjective and a know it all with no content to provide here. Of course they are customers and clients, but what is this thread all about sir? Do you care to elaborate how you made it all into some virtual entertainment while Doors here is making it personal?

Customer and clients, that's all you ever think of. Money money money another thing that makes you lose sight of the topic at hand. With all your frustration at me stating truth I find it hilarious that you reduce it down to it all just being virtual when the topic clearly is about reality. Come on, who do you think you are fooling here? I get it, it is yourself and your stubborn mind thinking that just because you are a boss there that your words are written in stone. Touche, I think mine are as well. A stalemate as they say in chess. No one wins. No one loses.

Well thanks for the information, I already knew... we all know the virtual part of it. Do you know the personal part of it? You are correct, this was a waste of my time as usual. Just like the virtual part of the business.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#50 [url]

May 28 12 11:28 PM

Hey Trainer and Proximus... you guys really don't get along, do you? Since I started this thread I guess I can also say something about it. Proximus says that the cam world is all virtual/fantasy and people should know that's all it is and ever will be. Trainer says that people are people and they may get actually emotionally involved.

Well.. guess both you guys have your point but this cam world has such a large grey that it's impossible to say one is right and one is wrong. I agree with Proximus that in the most part the cam bizz is what it is: a business. There is a need from men who are horny/lonely and they need to either blow their load or get some attention they apparently can't get in the 'real world'. I know as that's how I ended up in the cam world myself. But I was fully aware that it was a fantasy world. Hell, I went there because I thought it was a 'safe place' where I could just have my fun and boost my ego... even if I knew for damn sure it was just a fantasy. But after some crappy real life experiences with real relationships I just wanted to hide myself in fantasy. Some may say it's sad/pathetic but what the hell... that's what I wanted and I knew these services were offered. I met several cam girls and they all did their thing.. also telling me that they 'loved me' and all that crap. I knew it to be bull but I didn't mind.

But then I met the woman I now want to meet. She was different from all those other cam performers I met. She didn't give me the bs stuff and just told everything straight... not just to me but also other members. Everybody that ends up with her keeps saying that she is so different from all the others. Of course you could still be sceptical and say it's a trick etc... but that's not the point I'm trying to make here... the point is... I fell for her and she claimed she has fallen for me too. And I'll find out this Summer I suppose how real this all this But what happened is that it did cross over from 'safe' fantasy to the 'scary' real world even if it's still virtual at the moment. And it can happen as there are several performers on this forum who have fallen in love with a member. And why the hell not? We're still all people, right? There'll be your scammers and fakers etc but there are also be people who are genuine... basically you find that everywhere in life... in my boring office job for example there are fakers, liars, scammers but also some good ol' honest folk So the cam world isn't so much different from the real one: a lot of shit but if you dare to dig into that shit you'll find a few beautiful pearls as well

Maybe with Proximus and Trainer the thing is that you both fell into the shit but neither have found the pearls yet... however Proximus gave up and thinks that's all there is: shit... and Trainer knows he landed in shit but he still keeps looking for those damn pearls himself

Sorry if I sound like a smart ass but viewing your discussion it sounds a bit like that to me As for myself... I know there's plenty of shit and I'm walking through it myself... and I just hope I'll bump into those pearls someday myself

"There are things known and things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception"

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#51 [url]

May 29 12 10:47 AM

Doors,

Your attempt to soften the path is nice !
But I am already 10 years in this business with sites, studios and thus trying to give info from behind the screens to this comunity...

I am trying to help all of you to understand why "this" or why "that"...

Of course it is possible to fall in love with a model, hell, i have 15 girls married in all this time and a long list of girls living together with their clients...

It is not impossible !
Never said it, and never will say !

Exceptions comfirm the rule...

What I do stated is to please keep looking at our business as it is...
virtual entertainment !

The exceptions...are exceptions...
and if everybody happy is with this...I applaude even !

But, many troubles start when men cross the line of the virtual...
let's say it is only from one way (the client)...the model will keep the client as long as possible to come to her...out of economical reasons...
when she finally says..."i ain't interested"...many men feel cheaten...
AND THAT...i don't like see ?

She didn't ask for this troubles..she just worked...
See ?

Till there my plead...it is what it is...keep it at that when your fish is not being cooked...

Trainer cannot understand the nuance in this...
Are there others who fail to understand this ?

Maybe i not make it clear enough, it is possible...
Feedback and question always welcome !

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#52 [url]

May 29 12 11:13 PM

Proximus,

Glad to hear that you can appreciate my attempt to quiet things down a little between yourself and Trainer

About what you said... that if a client crosses the virtual line and the model keeps the client because she wants to earn the money... and in the end says 'no thanks'... well, I can understand that. I mean.. if it's the client himself who starts to believe that it's all for real instead of a 'show' while the model didn't do anything to deliberately fool the client... then I don't see anything wrong really. It's the client's misinterpretation of what's really going on while the model just does her job as she always does.

When I was still an active member in 'cam land' I've had models who give the virtual kisses and say that they had such a fantastic time with me and blablabla... but of course I never took that seriously. I understand they say those things as they want me to come back... nothing wrong there. I would feel a model crosses a line if she starts to make a client feel like she really loves him while in reality she does not.

Of course a model is going to be very friendly with her clients as she wants them to come back. And I'd assume the clients do keep it in the back of their heads that it is just a little virtual play... but that's what they also pay for.. right? To make them feel good about themselves. In addition to just shooting their loads they also like to feel wanted or liked. If a client sees that as a real connection.. that is not the model's fault.


"There are things known and things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception"

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#53 [url]

May 29 12 11:13 PM

I could not have summed it up any better, Doors.

But then Proximus thinks I can't comprehend the "nuances" of it.

Omg.... Seriously, if I have to explain it as if I was talking with a 2 year old I hope it would get past the mental block of Proximus stating I don't get it, but what I objectively notice is, that he does not get it.

Ok now to make it simple.

The camworld is virtual. Fact. I acknowledge as well as so many people who end up there know that as well.

I too have been associated with this business for 10 years Proximus.

Now for me to believe the virtual crap that Doors described quite well would mean that I would find myself exactly as you describe me to be, Proximus. But alas, you do not understand I know it all too well. It is a waste of time, period, to spend money on a person who's job it is to say anything or do anything to keep a person hooked virtually. End of discussion, I can't stand that virtual bull. It amounts to nothing. For me this virtual wanking is not worth it at all. Get real. But I do acknowledge members go there for that sole purpose. Knock yourselves out, you all are free to spend your money there however you wish and relieve your scrotum sacs into a towel or wherever, to satisfy whatever is missing in your lives. I get it, it's just entertainment to freely wank for payment. It makes Proximus and camgirl wealthy, kudos to them.

Now to Doors description of walking carefully through the piles of dung to find a gem or a pearl as he describes. Geez, he is looking for reality. You yourself,Proximus, admit to 15 girls getting married. So how does that happen? Was it with individuals that they met at their jobs in camming? I think now you either are admitting to what I am stating or you are just a hypocrite to boot.

In my early days I met quite a few models who talked the talk, and I fell for it a little bit, for awhile. I also knew it was virtual, but then it dawns on a person, and I use Nurgg(George) as a prime example. Notice, Proximus, I avoided using my experiences or using "it's all about me", defense from a few on this board. But after awhile, it becomes the same old crap, and the virtual manipulative attempts to hook anyone who dares enter into virtual fantasy, will tire of the sham that it truly is and they do not wish to feed your pockets or anyone elses in their self delusional attempt to feel fake love, fake attention and/or fake friendship. I do also acknowledge that for many it becomes quite addictive and obsessive and they just can't get enough of it. How sad that is when viewed objectively.

You stated, and many others including Doors here, and I as well, that we comprehend and admit we know what it is all about. I guess you can't comprehend that I alone, only me, fail comprehend it or to have an open mind to it but I guess you need to say and think otherwise, just to feed your own ego,and defense, possibly.I understand this and that I no longer look to feed your pockets or anyone elses in a tale of futility and waste. But then what the heck do I really know about it all.

But I guess you are too stubborn to admit I do know the differences and nuances.

Furthermore, if I say I met one model who took it away from their job in order to prove that she did have real feelings towards me, without me paying for that honor or privilege would further illustrate how wrong you are at the moment.So it is safer to say I am wrong, understand nothing and that I am totally clueless as to what you think I fail to understand from your point of view. But I guess I can't force you or anyone else to trust me or believe that I know the difference between reality and fantasy.

Perhaps my friend, a model would say to you, bluntly, stop being so stubborn and allow me to explain to you what TRAINER does know and after that chat with her, I then am 100% certain you would never ever write another word proclaiming that I can't separate the subtle nuances. I am sure you can't at this point accept that and it is quite evident in your recent posts. But of course she no longer wishes to have any part of this forum for obvious reasons, anymore.

Finally, I applaud Doors and others for trying to separate the shit from the gems. Trust me, Doors, with all genuine sincerity and courage, when I say I wish you success, truth, logic and luck in your adventure.

It takes a wise, logical person to be able to beat the system.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#54 [url]

May 29 12 11:31 PM

So this discussion has become another pissing match between Trainer and another member. This situation is shedding more heat than light...
What am I to do? Close this thread completely ? Split it into a separate thread where the boys can duke it out to their hearts' content? I will let you know my decision.
EB

P.S. Okay, Sorry Guys, this topic was closed by me, but then re-opened after appeals from our members.

P.P.S. Let's try to keep this discussion focused on the topic at hand.. and keep it civil.

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#55 [url]

Jun 1 12 1:02 AM

I guess I'll try point by point, because you raise different issues. let's just assume that everything is 100%, no scam, none of that hogwash, that suspicious stuff is grist for some one else's mill in some of the other threads, not this one. It's not what you're asking, so let's dismiss it, dispense with it and have it dispatched, at least in my response it's tangential.

QUOTE
I am having a hard time dealing with my girlfriend's job. I know I am a total hypocrite as I met her online when I was still an active member on these cam sites. Never to find a girlfriend though. Actually I thought here I was safe from finding a relationship in places like these... how wrong I was We live in different countries at the moment and currently I can only visit her from time to time. Eventually I'm hoping to be able to move over there.


Where is the hypocrisy? As a cam site member you were perving. And you were the lady's client. The big divide is the model's online persona versus her offline personhood. She invited you to be part of her private life and you interact with her in a different way, and she's interacting with you in a different way.

They all start out as models and we guys start out as clients. They're running chatrooms for work and we're in those chatrooms for fun. And then it happens, what you describe. There is no hypocrisy.

QUOTE
Anyways... we met... we got involved... now we're in love... now I can't stand it that other guys jerk off on her while watching her do her thing on cam. Anyone else who has a similar experience and how did you deal with it?


Guys usually don't like sharing "their women". Eskimos do, don't they? And swingers do. Those are two exceptions, but in general....

You feel either jealousy, jealous of these other guys looking at the object of your affection. And you feel insecure, that one of these guys can steal her away from you.

What are the chances that she was looking to get involved with a client, anyway? Why would she get involved with another? Aren't you the exception, model to client? Isn't she the exception, client to model? This is an issue of trust and commitment, not much you can do about it and what can you substitute those with? Faith and fidelity? Those are two sides of the same coin.

Either you trust her or you have to learn to trust her, just grin and bear it. Does she trust you? If you assume she trusts you, good.

I've been in your shoes. How did I deal with THE model and her private shows? For me, I was/am never jealous. But it hurts, you get your feelings hurt. What to do? For the moment, nothing. You grin and bear it, it's a fact of life and it goes with the territory.

Either you have to sacrifice you feelings or she has to make a sacrifice. How do you find a middle ground? Her job is to cam and you have trouble dealing with the the mechanics of her job. As I read the thread you caused some of her regulars, her clientele to bolt. You got in the way of her doing her work. If she's going to cam, you can't do that because that's the food on her table your playing with.

If she's going to cam and you're going to be involved with her, then you have to adapt how you will or won't react. Will your negative reaction impinge on her in a way that affects her earnings? You can't do that.

Grin and bear it. Stoicism's a hard thing to practice. Keep at it and it still doesn't get any easier, but you can learn that some things you can't change.

You already talked this over with her. What more is there to say? You told her how you feel and what it does to you and she told you her take on that issue.

If there's trust and if you think she's worth it, put up with the fact that you've fallen for a camgirl, a model. And she's dealing with that you aren't rich.

Find your common ground and key in on that. Will sermonizing to her and lecturing her and moralizing to her help? Will it change anything?

What are the alternatives? They are for you to give up. Or they are for you to plant the seeds of discontent. Can you deal with your own discontentment? Find a way if you think she's worth it to you. I found a
way. I literally "looked the other way".

Do you want to cultivate this thing? Do you want to suffocate this thing?

As I said, you already talked? Why talk more? Paint her into a corner? What does a raccoon do in a corner? People are no different, we're all subject to that atavistic desire to fight for flight, to get out of the situation.

That's my long-winded take: grin and bear it. Make the most of what you have. Cultivate and grow what you have. If you think she's worth it to you, don't fight what's inevitable. In time, who knows what the future brings?

Here's my observation, it's not just thousands of miles and different hemispheres and many times zones of distance. There's the most subtle of all snares, and it's found in the nuances of cultural differences and language differences. Those two are intertwined. Watch:

In America we use the word "doll" as a term of endearment; it's an affectionate word. Your imperfect human being is nonetheless perfect in your eyes; what greater honor is that? In the Central regions of Europe (specifically Romania) it's the biggest insult to a lady, to call her a doll, a fake, phoney, fiction-laden piece of molded plastic, seemingly flawless and idealized exterior and it's vapid, dark emptiness, nothing at all on the inside. Nothing is more fake than Barbie. And you think you've laid a nice compliment and it turns out that your laid a rotten, sulfur-smelling egg. Be extra careful with culture and language, different nations aptly think differently, and that's an immutable fact. It happens to me all the time in ways I least expect it and the next thing you know...."Why did I bother saying that?" Pay attention to their holidays and observances.

Last, just in general, don't expect anything in reverse. That's way too rare. The nature of man and woman is you fight and you fight and you fight and you fight and she gets her way, always. Cut right to the chase and don't fight and find every way possible to accommodate. Do all that if you think she's worth it.

.
.
You stuck your forearm up the backside of an antelope
and you didn't know that you're going for a ride?

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#56 [url]

Jun 1 12 4:21 AM

QUOTE
Anyways... we met... we got involved... now we're in love... now I can't stand it that other guys jerk off on her while watching her do her thing on cam. Anyone else who has a similar experience and how did you deal with it?


After all the complicated talk not answering the question (mostly), I tell you.
Change your perception of what her job is. Have you ever seen what the performer is looking at when she's online? I haven't. I am thinking its the chat window, performer stuff window and a little box in the corner for cam (if they have one). She is alone where she works, performing in front of a camera, reading a computer screen. Don't look at it from your point of view. Don't even look at it from her point of view. Look at it from her rooms point of view. She's on a well made stage that looks very pretty from the audience, but seen from backstage is all wires and unpainted scenery. My two cents.

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#57 [url]

Jun 1 12 10:03 PM

Reuters, thank you very much for sharing your view on this. A completely different approach than what I have heard so far on this thread. It's great to finally hear an experience from someone who's been in my position and who does not cry out that it will never work. But that I have to decide for myself if this relationship is worth enough to me to take some hurt. It gives me something to think about.

"There are things known and things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception"

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#58 [url]

Jun 1 12 10:12 PM

To Reuters :

Thanks for your pm !

Wanted to answer, but for one or other reason I am held from sending pm's...???


To Doors : even me, told you higher in this topic : Just go for it...!
and goodluck !


To Trainer : you ARE frustrated by some bad experience, surely !
wish you healing from it !

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#59 [url]

Jun 1 12 10:45 PM

Eh... Proximus... why do you bother to illicit a reaction from me as being frustrated?

It's a waste of my time to have you comprehend or acknowledge anything I write here and your inability to step outside the box.

Perhaps the word is not frustrated, but you can substitute "disgusted" or "angry" or " absolved".

I think you ought to open your eyes and read some of the posts Uncle and Emile steal while trolling a pro-camming forum. If you read them and understand the underlying sentiments and the subtle hints of admissions and spins or perhaps,my fav words of late "desensitized acceptance" of what occurs and is created in the virtual world of camming, you might find some truth and reason in what you describe as my "frustration".

Another point to enlighten you with, is with each new arrival here, that seems to fall in love with a cam model, it decreases the demand in that virtual world of yours you make a career out of.

And one last thing... some people who post here are not telling the entire story or the truth behind half the stuff they spew out to make themselves feel that they are "unique" in their efforts and adventures.

Anyway, I have real things to deal with in the real world than argue with a person who deals in and sells fake entertainment for the masses. Perhaps another word instead of frustration is the freedom from becoming anyones fodder,lol.

The more who read here that have visited these sites, the more they learn, and the more they eventually realize what is real and what is a waste of time, effort and money. Although that does not prevent it from occurring in the real world, but that is a better place to become fodder than in a world of virtual entertainment.


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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

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#60 [url]

Jun 2 12 6:59 PM

QUOTE (myusername @ June 01, 2012 04:21 am)
Don't look at it from your point of view. Don't even look at it from her point of view. Look at it from her rooms point of view. She's on a well made stage that looks very pretty from the audience, but seen from backstage is all wires and unpainted scenery. My two cents.

Thanks for this idea. I'll try this when she's working. I think this will help

to Proximus: Thank you for your good luck wishes. I surely will go for it

"There are things known and things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception"

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