#21 [url]

Sep 28 13 8:27 PM

I agree with plaything, you continually are saying no, but to others reading here, it appears you have some sort of attachment.


It could safely be viewed as an infatuation at minimal.

How long have you been around cam sites? I think you are looking for something and you don't even know yourself what that is.

Remember love is blind. It almost sounds like some high school crush played out in a world of fantasy(camsite) where no one can be 100% certain about the truth or reality. If you are looking for a companion or some romantic relationship, starting something on a camsite can be the worst place ever to start it. You sound so mistrusting and cynical but want it to all not be a scam and real, but you can never be 100% sure, regardless.

i am not going to tell you it is a scam or not a scam, I just will tell you that I have seen all sorts of scams and all sorts of truths. The only person that you need to trust is your own intuition, logic and conscience. Protect yourself first and foremost, and tread carefully in this world.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

Quote    Reply   
avatar

DonQuixote

Regular Newbie

Posts: 16

#22 [url]

Sep 28 13 8:53 PM

PlaythingYou keep saying your not in love but are you sure ? you do not sound convinced that you are not although that is what you say.

I am not in love, how can you know for sure? I only know her for 4 months. I do care about her and want to see her happy and proud of herself. She sometimes makes very morbid jokes about her work and she even referred to herself as almost a "real whore" (I felt guilty for even talking to her when she said that).

But Lewis is right even though it's ridiculously difficult to admit. That is her job and it was an enormous mistake of me to even suggest that her story was fake. It was my fault for getting involved with her in the first place, not hers. She was just doing her job. I think I will apologise next time and tell her that I'm gonna stop seeing her.

The problem is that she will most likely get very emotional again if I tell her the reason why I leave. I don't want to go away on such terms.

Quote    Reply   

#23 [url]

Sep 28 13 9:16 PM

You keep saying you're not in love. Then what is it? Are you a white knight of sorts? Apparently you have some sort of feelings for her.


She told you things, and you do not believe her or trust her words.

But then you feel bad regarding making her feel bad for not believing her or trusting her.

I think you are frightened in some way that makes you so cautious to the point that you don't know what is true or false. That is in a way, the facade of cam sites and the internet. Anyone can portray anyone, and not everything on the internet is true either or real. The only thing that is real is that what ends up on the internet is not private anymore or floats around forever stored in a digital format somewhere.

You have 2 choices, believe her, trust her with caution and continue to learn about each other or believe it is all lies and deceit, and manipulation and call it a day.

There is a reason some of us here are telling you to tread carefully here. It is sound advice.


The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

Last Edited By: Sep 28 13 9:18 PM. Edited 1 time.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

DonQuixote

Regular Newbie

Posts: 16

#24 [url]

Sep 28 13 9:18 PM

TRAINERI agree with plaything, you continually are saying no, but to others reading here, it appears you have some sort of attachment.

It could safely be viewed as an infatuation at minimal.


How long have you been around cam sites? I think you are looking for something and you don't even know yourself what that is.


Remember love is blind. It almost sounds like some high school crush played out in a world of fantasy(camsite) where no one can be 100% certain about the truth or reality. If you are looking for a companion or some romantic relationship, starting something on a camsite can be the worst place ever to start it. You sound so mistrusting and cynical but want it to all not be a scam and real, but you can never be 100% sure, regardless.


i am not going to tell you it is a scam or not a scam, I just will tell you that I have seen all sorts of scams and all sorts of truths. The only person that you need to trust is your own intuition, logic and conscience. Protect yourself first and foremost, and tread carefully in this world.

Oh trust me I was x1000 times more cynical when I first joined so I was certainly not after a relationship or a companion. It's not relevant here why I joined but I wasn't really interested in virtual sex and I DEFINITELY didn't think romantic relationships can be forged in that place. I didn't make a conscious choice to find someone I like and in fact, 4 months ago, if I was reading this thread, I'd be shacking my head at myself.

You're definitely right I don't know what I am even gonna do with her even if it's not a scam. I never thought things through since I never thought she'd want to meet. Even If I met her and even if she tells me she likes me, I'd have no clue what to do. I'd not want her to work there but there's nothing I could do. On the other hand, If it is a scam, I'd feel like a loser for a few months and then I'd be ok...

I have been around that particular camsite since I met her (I haven't visited any other, as I said I am not interested in v.sex). So 4 months. 

 

Quote    Reply   
avatar

DonQuixote

Regular Newbie

Posts: 16

#25 [url]

Sep 28 13 9:30 PM

TRAINERYou keep saying you're not in love. Then what is it? Are you a white knight of sorts? Apparently you have some sort of feelings for her.

She told you things, and you do not believe her or trust her words.


But then you feel bad regarding making her feel bad for not believing her or trusting her.


I think you are frightened in some way that makes you so cautious to the point that you don't know what is true or false. That is in a way, the facade of cam sites and the internet. Anyone can portray anyone, and not everything on the internet is true either or real. The only thing that is real is that what ends up on the internet is not private anymore or floats around forever stored in a digital format somewhere.


You have 2 choices, believe her, trust her with caution and continue to learn about each other or believe it is all lies and deceit, and manipulation and call it a day.


There is a reason some of us here are telling you to tread carefully here. It is sound advice.

No I am not a White Knight (I read the post on that so I know what you're talking about), I don't tell her that I want to see her happy and proud (I do think that but it's ultra cheesy to say) and I don't give her any advice at all or tell her how to correct her ways (she's actually not in need of correcting anything herself). We do discuss our likes/dislikes and our problems/memories/future plans but If anything, she's the one giving me advice and telling me to man up...

Quote    Reply   

#26 [url]

Sep 28 13 9:32 PM

So basically you are saying you are interested in her. She piqued your interest and you liked it. Obviously she is interested as well in you. Maybe there is something"different" about how you appear to her, maybe the fact that you are not interested in any virtual sexual entertainment that made her so interested.


I do believe some women become so frustrated or bored that they seek normalcy from someone on these sites. They continually have to deal with being an object of sexual desire that after awhile it becomes mundane and just part of the entire environment of fodder so to speak. 

They sometimes become lonely and seek someone different, perhaps you are that person. Someone they can confide in. But still there are others who play that hand as a ploy to do something unethical.

Life is full of uncertainties. Especially when you play on cam sites.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

Quote    Reply   

#27 [url]

Sep 28 13 10:03 PM

I am confused about the "man up" usage.


Man up to what? That you should show her what type of man you are? To stop being wishy washy? Remember some models especially from Eastern Europe will use the tactic of "being a so called real man"(and how utterly ridiculous that is and sounds) to earn more bank from some member. Also these women from that part of the world like a strong, decisive, intelligent man.(Well what woman wouldn't want those personality traits,lol) 

But then maybe she is actually calling you out or in slang" a pussy". No offense meant.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

Quote    Reply   
avatar

DonQuixote

Regular Newbie

Posts: 16

#28 [url]

Sep 28 13 10:14 PM

I struggle to believe she's lonely. She's very chatty, smart, beautiful and interesting - there's no reason why she'd not be popular both online and offline (as I said she's very popular online and I have no doubt she's as popular in real life too). Why would she feel lonely? she said she doesn't want to be alone but I don't even know what she even meant by that.

What she definitely detests, as you say, are the sex requests but not because of the obvious reasons. She told me she thinks most guys aren't even that interested in her body. She believes they aren't paying to see her do sex stuff. She thinks that's what porn is for. Her view is that they simply love to order her around - its a power thing. And obviously she heavily dislikes that and feels humiliated by it. So I don't doubt that I give her a break from some of the things she hates about her job (I was very easy going until this recent drama...) and thats' why she wants me to stay, aside ofc from the money part. Together they create, to me, a very strong reason for someone to want to keep you. And I told her precisely that. That If she just wants me as a cam buddy to chill, I'd do it and that she doesn't have to sell me stories about liking me or wanting to meet me. And that's when she gets annoyed and tells me I have no self-esteem and need to man up and blah.

I also don't think I am the only one she knows that is not interested in v.sex (though she claims me and her old guy friend are the only ones, it's just statistically impossible)

OH, "don't be a coward, man up and don't hide (sic) your head in the sand" is her line for when I appear to disbelieve that she is interesting in me and she wants to meet me. She believes I don't want o admit those are her real feelings because if they are true, she thinks I am afraid she's gonna end up ruining my ("perfect") life. So the ball is back in my court... But to me, that doesn't make any sense. I'd love nothing more than to believe she really likes me. I don't think she's gonna ruin my life but as I said before, which I hadn't thought at the time, I am not sure what we'd do in that situation. Long distance relationship? I don't think so.

Last Edited By: DonQuixote Sep 28 13 10:56 PM. Edited 6 times.

Quote    Reply   

#29 [url]

Sep 29 13 12:12 AM

What I meant by being lonely or shall I say isolated, is that many models work and work and work. This job takes an emotional toll on a person. Add to it that some keep their work secret from real people in their lives.

Then they work sometimes the entire night, go to school, and then only have time for sleep. No real personal social interactions. I know of models who say this work isolates them or creates homebodies. They sometimes begin to avoid dealing with men outside their work. 
I am sure more models who earn a lot do not have to work as much or as long and they have more free time to pursue interests away from their work.
From what I glean now, she most likely likes you for your ability to stand out from the rest of the crowd.

Have you thought that perhaps the male gene pool in her area is less than desirable as well.

You have a lot to learn about the ins and outs regarding the life of a cam model. 

As far as your explanation to the man up thing, I believe she is testing you. She obviously is interested in you, but you hide behind a protective cloud of emotionless committal or perhaps romance. Yet you are still interested in her as a friend, I suppose. I think she wants more than that, and of course you are a customer. Being a customer and linking friendship or romance to that, in my eyes, is not genuine in the sense of the real world.

Your humility is confusing her, or your lack of self esteem or confidence that a beautiful lady would be interested in an average joe, perhaps. She finds you interesting and special or unique. And wants to get to know you better and you deny or dismiss her own feelings it seems. But as you say it might be a game or just a way to hook you. The only way to know is to dive in the water with protective gear or stop visiting her and leading yourself and her on. Eventually she will get annoyed or just give up on you. There are plenty of fish in the sea.

What is wrong with a long distance relationship at first. Never rush things. 4 months is not a lifetime.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

Quote    Reply   

#31 [url]

Sep 29 13 6:03 AM

Two years as a popular model is certainly enough time for her to learn the tricks of the trade and save enough money to travel.  If she wanted to travel, she should have had the financial ability last summer.  On the other hand, she showed you her passport risking her job and placing a great deal of trust in you.  No model has ever shown me her passport before.  Based on your descriptions, she is applying extraordinary effort to convince you of her sincerity.  I have noticed that when I set my age a few years older, state that I am single, show some interest, behave gentlemanly and make myself unavailable (not looking for a wife), that some models act like they are genuinely interested in a romantic relationship.  Every one of them has lost interest when I assert that I do not have enough money for a wife and children, no job and no prospects for a job.  Were they looking to marry their way out of their countries?  Some models, who are not trying to get to know me, have asked me to go visit them (not sincere).  Others have tried to convince me to purchase their address so I could go visit them (not sincere).  One model asked me to marry her, and the day I answered, "no," was the last day she worked at the camsite (probably sincere).  How do you determine what your model really wants?

DonQuixote wrote:
 I haven't AT ALL seen only her good side either. Crying and fighting is not my idea of her good side.

I have had episodes of crying and arguing with more than one model.  The crying is usually an attempt to divert attention and/or evoke sympathy.  Arguing is merely a disagreement over something.  I have had arguments with several models who were clearly not interested in me.  I do not think crying and arguing is a good measure of sincerity.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

DonQuixote

Regular Newbie

Posts: 16

#32 [url]

Sep 29 13 7:45 AM

PolarBearTwo years as a popular model is certainly enough time for her to learn the tricks of the trade and save enough money to travel.  If she wanted to travel, she should have had the financial ability last summer.  On the other hand, she showed you her passport risking her job and placing a great deal of trust in you.  No model has ever shown me her passport before.  Based on your descriptions, she is applying extraordinary effort to convince you of her sincerity.  I have noticed that when I set my age a few years older, state that I am single, show some interest, behave gentlemanly and make myself unavailable (not looking for a wife), that some models act like they are genuinely interested in a romantic relationship.  Every one of them has lost interest when I assert that I do not have enough money for a wife and children, no job and no prospects for a job.  Were they looking to marry their way out of their countries?  Some models, who are not trying to get to know me, have asked me
to go visit them (not sincere).  Others have tried to convince
me to purchase their address so I could go visit them (not
sincere).  One model asked me to marry her, and the day I
answered, "no," was the last day she worked at the camsite (probably
sincere).  How do you determine what your model really wants?
DonQuixote wrote: I haven't AT ALL seen only her good side either. Crying and fighting is not my idea of her good side.
 

I have had episodes of crying and arguing with more than one model.  The crying is usually an attempt to divert attention and/or evoke sympathy.  Arguing is merely a disagreement over something.  I have had arguments with several models who were clearly not interested in me.  I do not think crying and arguing is a good measure of sincerity.

Oh yeah I don't think crying is a good sign of sincerity. I was just saying that I don't think that's her showing me only her good side as someone said in the link provided by Lewis.

She generally doesn't try too hard to convince me (as I said, she gets annoyed/exasperated but doesn't take take offence and she doesn't get upset if I don't believe those are her real feelings). But when it came to her name and her grandpa, she was quite upset and shocked I didn't believe her and took it almost for granted that I had believed her at first (as though I had no reason to doubt her).

Yes I know that the travel bit sounded magnificently fishy (she is interested in travelling though).On the other hand, she says she's the one supporting her parents and she's saving money to get away. Maybe not enough are left for travel but it's highly unlikely. AFAIK, an average family there can live ok on $1000 a month (roughly x2.5 the average salary). She probably makes that in a few days though I should say she didn't work very much at all before (she worked a few days every week). She is working far more now (6h/day or so).
 

Last Edited By: DonQuixote Sep 29 13 8:13 AM. Edited 1 time.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

DonQuixote

Regular Newbie

Posts: 16

#33 [url]

Oct 29 13 11:56 AM

For anyone interested on an update:

She did agree to exchange personal contact info. It felt like I was extorting her because I went to tell her a final goodbye. I asked her many times to admit that we're talking mainly because I pay but she refused to admit it because she says it's not true at all. So I told her if she does really like me,, we can talk elsewhere. She said something about website rules (I told her that's a bad excuse) and soemthing about being hurt in the past and being very cautious about mixing her life online and real life. So I told her, ok, just admit your interest is financial since you don't want me in your life. She said that she does and that she really wants to meet so finally she asked me for my mail in a piece of paper. I did feel like I had cornered her and that's why she agreed...

She was somewhat tearful when I later showed her what I had written after our first meeting 5 months ago (I write down how I feel sometimes - I'm on therapy too). She said it was the nicest thing a guy had done for her.

I think I am more confident that she's not fucking wtih me. She is unlikely to ask me for money since she already knows I know she makes good money (we have discussed it) and she knows I dislike girls who do that. I don't know what else she might want. Maybe I have underestimated how low my self-esteem is and I have to think of the worst case scenario...and maybe you guys were right that I had a crush on her but didn't want to admit it.

Only time will tell. Thanks for the support.

Quote    Reply   

#36 [url]

Apr 9 15 3:11 PM

Welcome to the "HeartBreak Hospice/Cafe Remorse," wasted years. You wouldn't be the first and you won't be the last, so don't beat up on yourself.
UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

Quote    Reply   

#37 [url]

Apr 10 15 2:08 AM

You are only duped if you allow yourself to be duped.


I won't comment on anything much regarding your posts which you posted the same thing in two separate threads but this one:

I sent the money via PayPal to what she said was her cousins old account (RED FLAG CENTRAL!), but when I asked why she doesn't have her own she said that she has a card to withdraw the money from that PayPal account and it's much easier for her, she didn't want to do Western Union because of commission or something?! I can't help but feeling that her male cousin's paypal account is actually her boyfriends and that I've been taken for a complete chump!

The above statement from her regarding Western Union is incorrect. The only person who pays any fees are the sender of the money, the receiver does not pay any commission or fees. All the receiver has to do is simply prove to the Western Union agent that they are the real person the money is sent to by using their ID.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman


�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."
Confucius

STAY THE F..K OUT OF CAMLAND...YOU ARE ALL FODDER

Quote    Reply   

#38 [url]

Feb 9 16 10:14 PM

I am just going to share my own story here, I don't think there is anything too notable. Another line on the wall.

I also met a girl on a cam site and now it's almost the 3rd "anniversary" of our regular chats. At first we chatted a couple of times a month, and step by step a little more often. For the first year or so I was just treating her like a friend. We talked about how our days have been, our past and future dreams, and we showed pictures to each other, and a very rare playtime. I liked the time but I never asked for anything more than the occassional time together. But then eventually she started to have small joke suggestions about how she would like to have a coffee with me. I took it as a nice complimentary joke and treated it as such. But she kept repeating it and eventually asking if I would like to visit her sometime. I knew about the chances and tried to tell myself "don't even think about it", but as time passed I did some research and heard some relationships work and decided I might just as well give it a try. Oh, and she was the one who made me buy my first webcam because she kept insisting she wants to see me.

So then the word "love" came into the picture. I hadn't really cared about where we chat this far so even now I presented just a single question about outside contacts that she evaded well by talking about the rules. She sent me lots of messages though. The story about her sick mom came up among other cliches, but as I was still busy with my own things also I didn't care at first. So the 2nd year of relationship went by like that and I felt great to exchange messages with her during days and then talk with her at evenings. There were short moments when something suspicious was happening, her flights to NY cancelled and mom being sick for months and months, but nothing I'd grab to as there was nothing urgent going on with us. I didn't even spend record minutes so I didn't worry. And I offered to help her outside of site, but she rejected.

With time however I started to get jealous about her chats with other people and I was wondering why the dreams and plans aren't developing in her life. She told me she still need the job and that other members must like her, which was true ofc. I started to pressure her a bit, and she replied by positioning herself as the victim of a hard life and shedding tears, which ofc seemed so sincere and made me back off. But after some time passed I notice things still aren't developing and try asking about it again in subtle and straighter ways with the same teary results blaming me. My plans were going according to schedule and I started to ask her about possible meeting to which she replied she is too busy right now but would love to have me at the right time. She also had less and less contact with me which made me worried. Somewhere around that point I was really starting to lose my faith even if my heart couldn't let go before I knew for sure whether she is lying or I'm just being too hard on the lovely angel. So then one day when we talked and she was giving me sort of ok "might be able to have time for you" I decided to buy the tickets and hotels and later told her I'm coming to which she replied in the most insulting and alarming reply "Why?" but saying she try to have time for me. So I went to her alledged country and city, I wasn't able to contact her, and when I came back and talked with her she said "Sorry I didn't have time for you". At that point I realized what had happend but I still tried to spend some time with her just to understand. I try to ask her why she hinted at things and told me those things when I only wanted an honest friend, but again she put herself in the position of the victim like I'm a total idiot. I never wanted or asked for anything more than the minutes on site, but she decided she wants that extra bit of money and lied to me. In retrospect I can't be sure what parts even from the very beginning were lies, if she really even has mom anymore. Heck, I can't even be sure if she was honest about everything and truly loved me, but was just completely incapable of taking the necessary steps and treated me in ways I didn't deserve.

Saying I hate her now would be wrong because I had some great times with her, but I do hope karma gets back to these kind of "professionals". On the other hand another reason I can't be mad is that I still know many models who I can honestly call friends. They ask me how I am on other platforms and they haven't given a single empty promise or lead me on with ridicilous ideas. They have been very straightforward telling me that site is only their job or that they want to have friendly contact outside site with me but nothing romantic. And I am going to help them however I can also.

The lesson here is that some of these ladies truly are cold-hearted bitches who will tell you anything and put any ideas in your head, statistically it's likely some are even sociopaths incapable of feeling any empathy no matter how much you try to poke at their conscience, but in the end the warm feelings I had with her were real and the numerous amount of nice supportive models helped me get through the crisis as well. The one thing I regret about the whole scandal is that I made one very good friend angry and lost her because I chose to defend and side with "my love". But then there's also the teeny-tiny chance that the girl I'm talking about had real feelings atleast at some point, but then something happened like she hooked up with someone one night in a bar or she learned about my dark sides or who knows. Relationships even in a man's own town are often complicated.

Last Edited By: hornyrichbigfinn Feb 9 16 10:59 PM. Edited 3 times.

Quote    Reply   

#39 [url]

Sep 14 16 12:59 PM

Why feel moraly superior? You wanted an honest friend and decide to pay for time. In all honesty you just paid for what you get. To tell after you deserve better is just hilarious.

Quote    Reply   
Add Reply

Quick Reply

bbcode help