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Aug 20 08 11:28 PM

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An addendum to previous post(addendum is more information to a given work).

Members, do you realize that many of these women now work multiple sites at once?
Do you think you alone, or this work, are their main source of income or support?
Do you think that these women do not make contact with others and just with you?
Do you think when these working girls leave a site that they are gone from it for good?
Do you think they do not begin making a list of potential suckers or a list to use so they can make money away from the sites?(I call these models,professionals)
Do you think these women chat only with you, while they work on a site, on yahoo or msn or whatever other program?

Models, Do you believe everything a member says to you?
Do you believe that most of these members care about you. By taking you private to smoke, or chat? Or that you are their love of their life alone?
Come on, admit it, you use these guys as much as they use you. That is called complacency.

Have you ever read a models bio, and seen "what I hate most?-beggers and liars." That hilarious, from someone that lies to a member to expect it in return. Who are you fooling?
Ha, I heard from a few models that they have some health problem, can you come up with some other lie thats not used by others?
One model once told me, "I do this job because I have to support my mum that is ill". Then the next time it is "I have a heart condition".
At least be truthful like some other models and say I need the money, so I can afford luxuries I would never afford other wise.
This may sound mean and disrespectful but it does occur and is said to members.

Could you imagine if these women actually used their intelligence and used it to change the way their government screws them, and make a difference in their world. Or how their own men, or friends screw them as well, in their mistaken trust and idea of true and real friendship.

More to come!!!!

In the game of seduction, there is one rule, never fall in love.

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#1 [url]

Aug 22 08 3:31 PM

As a model who is not being screwed by her government and who actually DID start working online to help her mother pay bills, I take exception to the way you generalise.

I am not using the members, nor are they using me. You wouldn't go to get a haircut without expecting to have to pay for it, would you? Nor would you sit in a bar for hours every evening and never buy a drink. So I ask you, are the barbers and bartenders out there using their customers?

It boils down to business. You pay per minute for a live hardcore show. I am not using you, I am delivering a service. You don't want it, you don't pay. No-one is making you sit in my chatroom for 6 hours a day. No-one is making you take me pvt just to chat. Members have different reasons for wanting to talk in pvt - ever stopped to think that some of them might just be lonely? Prostitutes have always had some lonely customers pay for the company over sex.

No I don't believe everything the members say. If I did, my chatroom at any given time would include at least one A-list celebrity and at least 20 guys with dicks as big as my arm. I do, however, believe that some of them genuinely care about me. As I do for them. Not enough to want to rush off and marry them, nor do I take it seriously when I get 'proposed' to 5 times a day. But I do care and I did miss my fans when I took a longer break from this business. And if they didn't give a shit about me, please tell me how come some of them were still writing to me over a 2 year period enquiring after me?

Seems to me that you've been used by a model and are now full of bitterness. Fair enough, I've seen it happen and I know it's quite common. But please remember the world is not THAT black and white. There are shades of grey. And this isn't a cookie cutter industry, easier though that would be.

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#2 [url]

Aug 22 08 5:21 PM

Bailey, I may come across as bitter or sweet at times. If it seemed general, in my viewpoints, or facts, would you rather me be more specific?That would not be fair to the model friends I talk or have spoken to also for many years or the member friends I have.

Even models have admitted some of these things to me, genuinely. I am not saying all fall into this category. I also may seem like I am attacking the very work that provides you the financial means to do whatever you need to accomplish in your life.I am stating facts dear.
I can think of at least 5 members off the top of my head, that have been vicitmized, and probably many more that won't admit it openly. And I can assure you the same goes for many models too.
Read my reply to dean, I state many factors that come into play in this BUSINESS. You are absolutely correct, it is a business. Your there to make money correct? Otherwise why else would you be there? But for some(at what cost?)Honestly.

Then you admit that some members are lonely perhaps, could that be the same for a model too? Maybe this work takes a toll on them. When they work so many hours, and they attend school, or work another job, or have a family. To be so tired they have no opportunity to lead a normal life(what the hell is a normal life anyway to most people). So you are supplying what people seek, a service, you become connected emotionally, and mentally to them. Correct because you do care!!! And yes members do care also!!!!

Have you ever seen a colleague of yours lose it in a chat room? Or emotionally break down? It goes both ways dear. Are you denying that the things I mentioned never occur, I seriously doubt you would. I also agree with some of your valid points as well. I have model friends that agree with me too, and some that do not. I have had some tell me to go fuck off and some tell me I am absolutely correct.

Everyone is an individual, with their own ideals, thoughts and needs. Members and models alike. If it is a business, then perform and do not get attached.But that is not what this work thrives on, is it? That sounds cold, but it would avoid lots of problems.If this was the case you might be considered a robot.

But your work does promote and rely on having these types of people feel secure and comfy within your chat.Thats how you keep your customer base, isnt it.It provides them with something they are missing or seeking. And even the models eventually find this work as an extension of family or it fulfills the void that is missing in their lives at the moment or in the past. If you want to eliminate the people that linger in free chat and pay for nothing, let the site you work for, or any other site for that matter, eliminate free chat.There are many that do that.

So maybe my views or points are just as valid as are yours. Now try having a relationship away from your work, thats reality. You can see how it affected some here. Models and members alike.

Do I seek emotional,sexual fullfillment, or fill a void missing in my life when I visit a barber or the store clerk in a store? And no one is asking them or you or me for an email addy or yahoo nick either for my hard earned money when I go to the barber or out to eat at a restaurant.
So in your line of work, it is more likely to happen because of the intimate socialization going on. Then what is next Bailey? Do you ask your friends that you chat with online to pay you for the chat? Where do you draw the line? And then factor in the business aspect, and it gets even more complicated. Always an opportunity for good and bad stuff to happen.

I do not expect my employees to fraternize, and flirt, and seek emotional stability while they work for me.That's not good business. But then you admit this is a business too, but quite different in these two comparisons. To me anyone that wants to play head games, whether it is for business or personal pleasure, has no place in my life. I might add I have stopped relationships because of that very fact. It is not the best way for people to treat anyone anywhere, would you not agree?

And to be quite frank with you, I had much in life and lost it and still I find the time and the humanity to be a real friend to most, not a dollar bill to some. I know how it feels to be on top of the mountain and then to be piss broke where you are ashamed of what you do not have in life. So I feel for those who can not afford the things other have.

Exactly my point, it is not black and white.

In the game of seduction, there is one rule, never fall in love.

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#3 [url]

Aug 22 08 7:56 PM

I would also like to add, that I am not talking merely about the work you do, but what goes on behind the scenes. Are you that naive?Maybe you are not involved in that part of the sideshow because you have a significant other in real life.


Sometimes it is like looking for your pot of gold, and when that pot is empty or the gold is tarnished, lets move onto the next better thing. There is always the next best thing. And what happens to the person, I repeat the person, that is tossed aside. Was it alone only their fault because of their weakness, and the need for love, attention and friendship, or do you exaserbate their problem. Although I am sure most do not think of it as a problem. And there lies the battle lines.

The need for money, the need for attention, the need for what is missing in one's life. Think of a drug addict detoxing. Its a horrible sight to witness. But it's your choice. I didn't create this and I can not stop it, until society themselves says enough either way.

I am involved with other things that help models if they need help. I am not greedy or need to be the hero. Would you give away your material things for love,if you had to. Reminds me of that movie with Demi Moore and woody Harrelson and Robert Redford. Rent it. Watch it lol, there are similar parallels to this industry.

I find now in my life that pure sexual lust is not what turns me on. Do not get me wrong, I am attracted to a beautiful woman like any other man. But I am also attracted to their intelligence, wit, humor, etc....

I tend to look at the whole package rather than merely satisfying my immediate gratification of my sexual urges. And I know that many people feel the same. And many are not like that.Makes lovemaking a wonderful act. Makes it something to treasure than me paying someone to perform for me. I think you would agree with me too. But I feel you think of me as an attack on your work and income. I just have different values than you and the next person. Are we both bad or good by how we feel about things? No. Are you a bad person for this, or am I am horrible person as well? No.

Dean said it quite well in his post.

I am not an expert in psychology, or the human sciences, but the models become accustomed to the sense of attention,the adulation, the need to be lusted and wanted. And so do the members. You are both feeding on each others emotions. Almost like a drug, the more pleasure it brings, the more you crave it, the harder to stop or the more it escalates. Until one day you look at yourself in the mirror, and you are either numb, indifferent, or scarred by it.

And think of the members that are left when you are gone for good, then what?

As a real friend, I want it to be genuine and real, not store bought like a pair of boobs.

Sorry for my rant.

In the game of seduction, there is one rule, never fall in love.

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#4 [url]

Aug 22 08 11:18 PM

You make valid points and I am inclined to agree with you - up to a point.

I merely wanted you to admit that it is not ONLY models taking advantage, which you did. I appreciate that. Sometimes, reading posts here does affect me because it seems as though all models are put into two categories: the exploited victim or the greedy whore who uses men and then casts them aside.

I don't feel as though I belong in either of those categories, which is why I find it hard to read and am not surprised that there aren't many models posting on this forum. I appreciate the way the guys here are looking out for models when it comes to piracy etc., but who wants to be called a victim or a whore? No-one that I know, for those labels mean that as a model you're either pitied or despised.

You said something I am curious about - things 'going on behind the scenes'. What are you referring to exactly? I don't believe I'm naive; I'm 28 years old and even though I'm not from Eastern Europe, I have been through some tough times... tougher than most people my age have had to endure. Those things had nothing to do with being a cam performer, however.

Nor is greed my motivation. As I mentioned in a separate post; girls living in Western countries don't earn that much money comparatively. A dollar doesn't stretch that far where I live and my income goes straight back into the bills, the rent and so on. My one luxury is having a manicure once a month - and that is instead of buying clothes, shoes etc. I have been offered a great deal of money for face to face meetings but I adamantly refuse it, as I am NOT a whore. You may disagree with me there but it's my point of view. Entertaining a man while he gets himself off on the other side of the world is one thing, spreading my legs in some hotel room is something quite different and it's a line I will never cross.

You mentioned the film: "Indecent Proposal". I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I could easily find and use a rich man but since love is what's important to me, I have always dated for the emotion, not for the wallet or assets. As a result I have always had partners who earned very little, and still I loved them.

A close friend of mine actually married a 'customer'. They are still happily married to this day, 3 years later. They are poor, but they're very much in love. So you see, it does happen.

I just wanted to answer your original post (seeing as you asked) with a different POV... that you can't possibly throw all members or models into one pot.

I'm glad you feel the same way about that.

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#5 [url]

Aug 23 08 12:34 AM

Excellent Bailey, thank you so so much for being open and honest. And now we see eye to eye in some respects.

Of course not everyone fits into one or two categories. Misunderstandings do occur between people, having the patience and open mindedness to listen to others is key to solving and maybe helping each other also.

I now have you looking at things from a different P.O.V also.

And in the movie, you hit the nail on the head. Poor, or rich, its not what you have or havent got, its the person inside that matters.

Thank god and thank you for not being self centered and shallow as I read you now.

Your not alone in making ends meet, you would be surprised , how things are for some people nowadays.

And you can't possibly throw all models into one pot too.

Thank you Bailley for the exchange, things are not as it seems or appears, like Trainer has mentioned once. You have a passion and a conscience. Thank you again. Now enough about us

In the game of seduction, there is one rule, never fall in love.

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#6 [url]

Aug 23 08 5:18 PM

Hmm Bailey...just two categories "exploited victims" or "manipulative whores?"

I don't think that describes most of the model members who have posted here over the past two years....Who - like you - give better than they got in most exchanges.
Many of them have left this forum, but that's usually because they left the industry and moved on - or had just said their piece....

Now as for most of my own posts.. I am talking a lot about what goes on "behind scenes" in the sense that this is an industry that benefits a lot of people who are not visible in a girls room - studio owners, web-master affiliates, web-content providers, admins and techs.. all of them who are the first in line to get paid.. and who take the 'lions share" for themselves....

Models are usually employees.. and they make the money - lots of it - for others.. and relatively speaking, are paid "nickels and dimes.." My focus is on the global industry and studio network that is supported by the emotional soap operas between models and members. But from the point of view of the "content providers," most of that "personal bullshit" is beside the point. They are keeping their eyes on the "prize."

Of course, I'm not telling you, Bailey, anything you don't already know, and far better than me - as some of your recent posts to the girls testify...

UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#7 [url]

Aug 23 08 10:30 PM

Bittersweet - thank you. cool.gif

UL - I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend. I was merely referring to how I've understood many of the more recent posts around here; although to be fair most of the ones I am talking about were written by guys who have recently had bad experiences with a model or two. So I suppose it shouldn't be surprising that they are bitter and perhaps slightly one-sided viewpoints.

In any case, I do appreciate this forum very much and am aware that not everyone here feels that way about models. I just think it's important to remind people that there are in fact models who do have integrity and a conscience.

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#8 [url]

Oct 30 08 2:06 AM

Reading this exchange I agree with Bailey entirely. On first glance at Bittersweet's post, I think 'Man, you think too much!' This is an incredibly useful site for models and members alike, but I do feel from reading some member's posts that they are using this forum as an outlet to pain in their life, that has nothing to do with the world of camming; but something they have covered up by camming.

Although I am acutely aware of the exploitation and nasty sides to this business, even more so after joining up here and devouring all the posts concerning the 'evils', we all have to remember that the interaction between members and models is a game. Whether you are paying or not, you are playing. The guys who have been 'hurt' by models, you actually 'hurt' yourselves, by expecting something of a sweet, dating experience. No! If these girls lied to you, you were the ones who swallowed it. This is cyber world! Get real!

I am not denying true relationships develop and people grow genuinely close, but sometimes, these encounters will abruptly end! Without warning, bam. Again, this is cyber world. How the hell do you know what happened? I have read a couple of posts about this, along these lines, I cared for her so much, then she disappeared...fucking bitch! Yeah, you care so much you don't even know if she disappeared because she was murdered, or sent to prison, or had a mental breakdown. Yea, it is more than likely she pulled back because she got scared of where it was going, and didn't want to get too deep, but you don't allow for the other reasons. And even if she didn't get turned into sausagemeat, accept that she had her reasons for giving you the slip,and that she had every right to do that!

Granted, we have heard of several marriages and serious relationships taking place from this interaction, but it is a game. Any member who goes to webcam sites specifically seeking a partner is a fool. I accept that may offend some, but we are here to opinionate so I don't deem an apology necessary, if I did, I wouldn't make that comment in the first place.

This is not a generalisation, this an opinion I have formed after reading this site and from my own interaction with members.

I understand some girls, will tell you anything, but you are responsible for yourself, and for the information that you take in. Take a reality check when browsing online. Never believe everything you read...

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#9 [url]

Oct 30 08 2:49 AM

Very good Tiffany, you comprehended my point very well.Why should it not be a place to express someones pain or hurt? I do believe that models may do the same in the restricted section. Then if a member can not express their pain, why would it be fair for a model to express their pain in their free chat or in a private? Wht makes it proper for them to do that and not a member? Takes 2 to tango as they say.

And out of pure coincidence, while doing a google search I came across another forum that would amaze and surprise you. It took me 2 hours to read through all the 100's of posts there. And I showed it to Uncle Lewis here. I hope he uses it to some extent.
But back to what you mentioned here,

And this game as you and I consider it, is just what it is.

Now everyone gets what they deserve. And yet some don't deserve what they get either? If you can not agree with that then you are being hippocritical.

I am here to stop the exploitation of others,members as well as models. Simply.

If it is a game, as you say, then don't you believe that for those models and members that are naive to this aspect, deserve to be forewarned?

Or is there some underlying reason why it should be kept hidden from those unsuspecting people.Would you have no problem telling a member to leave and not return because they will get hurt?

Thinking is what made us what we are today. If I think too much, it is with good reason. Because if I didnt and thought with that other appendage nowadays all I would be is a mindless wanker,would you not agree?

And a model that is a professional at her craft can easily sift through the hundreds that visit her chat. She can read who with some prodding will go private. She can read who is there because they are lonely. She can read who is horny.

That is a professional chat hostess. Yet can you deny the fact that the business is to make it seem like fun and games?

A true professional will simply cut through the BS, and get what both are there for. A show=money. But do not deny the simple fact, that in order to get that, you need to provide a happy, playful environment which satisfies some pleasure center in each others brain so you can obtain what you both are there for. And which in turn, becomes an intimate relationship in some ways.

Without this interaction, you women would be cybersex robots, with no feelings. Just an image on a screen that provides a fantasy for each other sexually.

And you can not deny that you do have feelings for some of your members, even if it is platonic. So what is your point? Its contradictory in a way.

I can provide proof contrary to some of the things you spoke of too. So in simple terms this is playing both sides,and just being open and honest just like you are, and I find that so refeshing, thank you.

And just like you I am not trying to offend others, and simply expressing my views as well. But people tend to get offended, thats what makes this so emotional and human lol. But then it is just a game,right?

In the game of seduction, there is one rule, never fall in love.

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#10 [url]

Oct 30 08 11:43 AM

I also would like to clarify something, as you stated in your post Tiffany, you mention perhaps some bring their outside hurt to the table (a chat porn site).

The countless models that bring that to their work, I can not even count them on all my fingers and toes they are so many.

And if you mean the members, well I assure you everyone on this planet has something that bit them in their ass in reality.

But as we are specifically discussing things that occur in the industry you work in. Perhaps, maybe,out of the blue, per chance,possibly, what some do to others while working there and make it become some reality,outside the workplace of yours.Is another thing people find taboo to discuss. Except a certain moron, from a state in the USA.

If this is a game as you call it, then some have some warped sense of gamesmanship. As you can tell I am being quite delicate in how I choose my words here. The game stays where it should belong, in your work. Moving it outside the assigned borders, it's a dangerous game to play. But then we now move to another dimension, the game of reality. And the results can be far worse that the simple games in a chat place.

Simple, proof I point you, to the Wild Bill thread, and now the countless pirate threads, or hobbyists, or the men that simply can do it,LOL,poor Rukiwi.

Or the stores I have been told by other models, about their realities, oh not to mention the members.

I think I will ask Uncle if I may use what I have read somewhere else as proof to the real facts. But then it is his choice not mine and I will respect his yes or no.

As Rukiwi mentioned I have to go and make money, because that seems the proper thing to do, in this materialistic society we all live in.

Looking forward to chatting more, thanks.

In the game of seduction, there is one rule, never fall in love.

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#11 [url]

Oct 30 08 1:13 PM

Nice exchange guys and gals...I am listening to you all very carefully now..

I think we are getting closer to understanding the elusive GFE that so many members seek from the models they court and then use....

It's what Bernstein was talking about when she coined the term "bounded authenticity" - see the post on "Temporarily Yours" for more on that...

But the bottom line is that models and members can express genuine feelings for both parties to the commercial exchange without those feelings being always "counterfeit emotions." They are just tied to a specific location and kind of transaction that doesn't translate easily elsewhere...The feelings can be authentic but only within fixed boundaries.

Agreed?
UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#12 [url]

Oct 30 08 1:49 PM

Please refresh my memory Uncle, what is GFE?

I might also acknowledge that this can occur without a commercial transaction Uncle.

Now you draw a fine line when it comes to the commercial or business end of it all.

Pardon my pun.

Whether you exchange a prescribed amount of tokens, credits, or real money, there is this status or shall I refer to it as a hierarchy that is produced within a chat room between paying members, their models in question and the non members.

You can watch carefully the game closely when that area of this work is being exhibited.

And there are all kinds of levels of game play if you wish to describe it. I would really enjoy breaking them down into seperate categories because in each level there in itself is another game being played.

But, I might add that some do not play the game or wish to play that game either.

And in that another seperate area emerges.

Finally, some models think of this forum as them becoming some sort of guinea pig for study. Which is not my intentions at all. Perhaps that is the reason Uncle and others are here and doing,but I assure you my knowledge is based on real time and life experiences.

And I have in some sense turned off the emotional aspect of it now so I see it for what it really is......... a game,..... a job...... for some a joke,.....for others another thing yet still. Which in all this removes someones biases towards it all and allows you to simply see everything quite clearly.

Btw, Can a model ever admit that she had such a bad day while working that for them to smile and be happy while plying her trade,is quite tough. But the game is afoot is'nt it. Although I am quite positive that under those circumstances, a private can be controlled by the model as well by the customer. What a fascinating industry this is, isn't it,Uncle.

In the game of seduction, there is one rule, never fall in love.

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#13 [url]

Nov 1 08 5:35 PM

GFE -- Girl Friend Experience ?

or

GFE -- Good Faith Estimate ?

Just kidding ... but I thought the first link from SexWork was interesting.

From the post at SexWork:

Girl Friend Experience - Short definition
What it means to each person is a little different, but to most guys it means a provider that makes the experience seem unrushed, enjoyable, fun, relaxing and more like a "real date than a quick commercial encounter. In practice, though, it seems to depend on chemistry, personality and mutual expectations, as YMMV ("your mileage may vary") for both the provider and client. A general description might be: a session that facilitates the experience, mutual cuddling/foreplay, mutual kissing, mutual oral sex (covered or uncovered--depending), and involves either the illusion or reality of passion on the part of the provider. Most of all its about being a sincere mutually desired human interaction. It is the opposite of the women being treated like a sex toy and the man an ATM machine.

=== excerpt from the post ===

In response Caitlin a Phoenix sexworker said:
"While I have not advertized myself as GFE, that is what many of my clients have experienced. To me it is a question not of what you do, but how you do it. It definitely involves some kind of "connection," as Dave put it.

And, one final link about GFE

Be kind, for [nearly] everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. -- Philo
Curiosity Didn't Kill This Cat. -- Studs Terkel
Simply paying attention allows us to build an emotional connection. Lacking attention, empathy hasn't a chance. --Daniel Goleman

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#14 [url]

Nov 28 08 11:07 PM

On the topic of exploitation.

Do you think it is only the models being exploited?

An exchange can go like this:

One person is a guest, others are premium members.

The premium members ask the guest why are you here?

Guest:For reasons other than you think.

Premium:your a cheapskate.

Guest:Am I?

Premium:When you can buy 20 tokens then you can be somebody.

Guest:Are u sure,does having tokens here make me less or worse than you or the reverse?
That's quite judgemental and demeaning. To say I am less of a person because I choose not to become a premium member.
And what does that prove? And what does that say about others?

So power comes in many forms. Money used to control others to do things to become part of the majority? In fact, that is saying you have power over me. No one has any power over anyone, but themselves. Some members here use signatures to that affect.

So now where is the fun and games? Or is it a form of brainwashing or a skewed view?

Just some more things to think about, about who we are, how we treat others, and how people are so judgemental.

Bounded authenticity or bounded authority, which is worse?

In the game of seduction, there is one rule, never fall in love.

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#15 [url]

Nov 29 08 1:10 AM

Two Comments;

First, I personally object to the idea that any model member has been treated like a "guinea pig" on this forum. All model members here are treated as peers and collaborators, who are equal participants in a group discussion. If anything, male members sometimes defer too much to their point of view - though that's certainly not true of a male member named BitterSweet.

Second on the GFE, it means one thing in the context of escort work - making a guy feel like he's on a fantasy date rather than paying for a commercial transaction.

There's another term that the French students who work part-time in "L'escorting" use - "social time" - which may fit the cam experience better. "Social time" refers to a moment for personal conversation and interaction - perhaps over a drink or dinner - which precedes the main event, the sexual transaction with a client.

The kind of personal chat that sometimes occurs in a model's room - before she's "taken private" or even during a private session- could be considered as a parallel to this "social time" which "humanizes" the commercial transaction.

Final comment. I have said many times here that cam-models are "propaganda agents" for the commercial sex industry. The hierarchy in the rooms that BitterSweet describes so accurately can be considered as part of the "socialization process" whereby web-surfers become clients. Whereby "the pervs and punters" become the norm and the guys who don't pay for sex become the "beggars and losers" in an interesting role reversal.
UL

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#16 [url]

Nov 29 08 1:39 AM

Well, I take it as an affront as a mere human being that some DO say that.

And who has the right to placate a model, whom claims economic sufferage, and the members then, in judging others with contempt for their situations along with the model? I mean wtf.

You want me to feel sorry for one group and not another? Is that right? Be realistic, are we all playing favoritism?

Are we all going to bias ourselves? And just because one person lives in another country and not a PARTICULAR country,that situations are that bad or as bad as anothers. Don't you find that odd? Or are we choosing one side for another. Or is it that we all can't look at everything without any bias towards another? Shame Shame.

And I say this with no condemnation or bias, but merely looking through a clear crystal ball.

Who is the fool and who has been fooled? Honestly. Should I pass on the honesty too? Or what?

In the game of seduction, there is one rule, never fall in love.

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