Regular Newbie

Posts: 16


Sep 19 08 1:04 AM

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hello again...i was looking at the forum...and my biggest question is..why the heck do u have all these conversations here...ok i understand uncle lewis that he needs it..but u guys...u seemed so.....involved...and for what? To really see how a model thinks or to see why u give all that money...Well u give it because u want tits pussy and ass...cause in real life u don't seem to have those.and if u want so much fun why the heck do u tell us "oh u prostitute u whore...u want just my money" Of course we want ur money cause u want us naked -thats our job...to show...and ur job is to pay us cause we show. Whats so difficult to understand. Do u really believe in all those "friendships"? Those are very but very rare...because for that u need pvt to let the model see that u really are interested because anybody can come in free chat and say :"hey i wanna be ur friend...thats my mail address...take it and lets chat from home...and maybe u show me a tits too from time to time". Why is there so much talking here for nothing? U really have nothing else better to do at home? raise kids, or shopping, cooking, fucking whatever?? Now after seeing this forum...now i understand too why members come there and call us whores bitches or whatever. thats it's a fun site and not charity not begging...something like "if the model had a bad day.and i go in her pvt to help her with pvt. Will she get that all i'm doing is a nice thing even if i wanna see her naked? Actually as i said earlier this is buying and selling again...i show u pay...so which part shall we appreciate? the fact that u thought to see me naked..or the fact that u thought that would be nice to spend the money with the model that had a bad day?
kisses and have good night/ day.
signature : andreea
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#1 [url]

Sep 19 08 2:33 AM

This really deserves a longer comment.. But here's my question for you, Andreea.
None of us really pay you directly, right? We pay the web-pimps who run the website and their affiliated web-masters and then the studio owner... And eventually the model gets paid something - although I just learned that that "something" is half of what it was yesterday - since PF has just slashed its price for privates in half...

But the transaction is not with you.. It's with the web-site that owns your images, your videos and your time...So whom are we really having a relationship with -- besides ofc that little joystick in our hands - you or the men who really run this thing???

I suspect its the later which makes you (and your 'tits and ass), the bait in this carnival show - the "live content" that is this industry's "commercial product," and it's "bread and butter." But None of us here think that you guys are really the producers or the rule makers of your shows. Basically you just do what you are told. So to understand this industry we need to look at the incentives and rules that your bosses impose, and how you are trained to perform in their show-room. So it's the industry that has got our interest here.. and not this or that model's "bad behavior..."

But it seems to me that your bosses have trained you all too well, Andreea. Apparently you have adopted the required "professional attitude" and keep your emotional distance from your clients whose pleasure you serve daily "on command." I guess that's a necessary act of "self-protection" but must it include feeling deep contempt for the men (the wankers, the losers) who are your targets in this online hustle called "Show Me The Money And I Will Show You My Ass?"
But they are also human beings... The reason for all the noise here is that some of those guys are trying to reclaim their feelings and their humanity - by recognizing yours....


P.S. Take a look at some of the Model Handbooks from F4F, Peeks, or private feeds that we posted in the Sexual Tourism area of the reading room to see what I mean about the professional attitude that the web-masters teach their new models to adopt.

P.P.S. Hey Andreea! We have cam models here who are highly valued, senior members of this forum.. Nobody calls them "Sluts and Whores" without having their "heads handed to them on a plate." Look at Delfina's posts if you don't believe me. So don't confuse the contemptuous attitude shown by the Pirate Sniiper Chief in his (few) posts with the attitude shared by most members here. We know that a cam-model's online persona often involves "playing at being naughty, bad girls." But that is mostly a theatrical role that they play..and not who they are in real life. I assume the same is true about you too, Andreea - unless of course, your real self got so caught up in the fictional character that you play for a pay-check that you lost sight of yourself somewhere along the way. (??)

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#2 [url]

Sep 19 08 3:30 AM

I have not seen many people here say bad words against models and if there were some,they are not on here much at all.
What a woman or girl does to make money is her business and if she is working for a porn site,they (the porn site) make it their business to keep a girl working there as long as possible to make more profit.
I stopped going to pf a few years ago when I found out that the site kept taking in money from a stalker of the models that was posting their information on his own webpages to blackmail the girls to stay friends with him and give more info about themselves.
I had come to understand that money was more important to PF than the models.The stalker spent ebough to be able to stay around for a few years until he became too much of a nuisance to them or he scared enough of their top earners away to make them find ways to try to keep him away from the site.
The more you work for them,the more time they can spend out travelling and partying and you'll never see them on cam because they do not want someone using their photos to blackmail them.
You will work the job until you get tired of it and move on to something else,like everyone else has done before you.
There are probably not very many people that come to PF from here.
I copy and paste stories that I might find while on news sites which only takes a few minutes.Typing this takes a little longer but I do not do this every day either.
If I did come to PF.. I sure would not ask for anything sexual and seeing someone on cam for me is more to know who I am talking to..Anyone on the internet can send photos of other people and say it's them.You might be working on a porn site,but you can also be fully clothed while in regular chat if you choose to be.

I work every day and I really do not have time to bullshit anyone,but I do like trying to get people laughing or smiling in person and on the internet.
I could also type alot more but time to sleep.
Have a good a day as you possibly can.

Money is like manure; it's not worth a thing unless it's spread around encouraging young things to grow. Thornton Wilder

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

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#3 [url]

Sep 19 08 3:46 AM

Now as we say the gloves come off(a boxing term).

So let me get this right" this JOB" is for you to rub your pussy and play with your tits for the members entertainment. Because in your view it is that simple.

Do you really think ALL members come there to see you naked? Because we all never have the chance to have a real pussy or to find a real woman?

Wow, Andreea, maybe this is the problem we all are talking about here and you miss the point?You should read deeper and further here, and you will see that you might be wrong.

You know you insult your colleagues with your statement. This is the problem with this all. You put yourselves out there as an object, for all these members to use you as a toy. And you have no sensitivity or care about that.
Then why if I may ask do you bother asking for a members email address or their yahoo id? Is the truth ,because you are taught to ask for it, so you can suck these members deeper into the game so you can make what you say "the buy and sell" of this job.

I can speak only for myself, and say that I loathe,and I am disgusted that you and your colleagues have to work in such a place. Once again I ask, if there was other jobs that paid better than this work would you do it? Would you want to have a normal life? Are you held hostage to the money, the adoration, the attention, are you addicted to it? Because your indifference and the obvious games you play with these other people are just another part of the job, huh.

And as long as you make the money that this job affords to you, it is ok. Screw the fact,that your shows are spread across the planet for all to view by pirates,by your studio and the website you are employed by, screw the fact that you become so desensitized to what is normal, that you seem to think there is nothing wrong with what you do. And you play along with it. And you may say I hate this job, or I hate my situation in my real life, or I care nothing for anyone that takes you private because all these members wish to see you naked. And you just do it anyway.
Like I have said, why dont you just say like some models do say in their chat, "I am not here to chat, I am not here to become your friend, and I am not here to listen to beggers". I am here to make money".Of course, that would lessen the amount of money you can make there. So it is all an illusion, a fantasy, a game, at the expense of who? The answer is quite simple, the only people truly happy it seems are the webpimps, the studios, and your bosses.

Do you really think this forum is the reason why members call you sluts or whores? Maybe you should stop and take a long hard look in the mirror. Because I think that your afraid of what you see in the reflection.

And if I may ask, how long have you been in this job?

And what is with the kisses at the end of your reply? Is that something that fits the conversation or is it just a learned talent from the work you do there?

God help you dear. Its almost as if you are enslaved or addicted to this.

Oh sorry, perhaps you understand this conversation better,"show me your tits bb, or will you cum for me? Or how many minutes do you need to cum? PFFFFT.

Have some respect for yourself dear woman. And I mean this as one human to another human being. Not as a rude and uncaring remark in which some seem to think that is how it is meant to sound.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman

�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."


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Regular Newbie

Posts: 16

#4 [url]

Sep 19 08 9:23 PM

oh my god...I can't believe it...u gave me replies...I saw Trainer ask me since when I'm in this business? ... Well I'm in for over a year and I think I know better than U the things that happens in there. U said something about respect...lol..I think U have respect by buying pvt? Think again...u called me "dear woman" I wonder why?? Because I said some things that some of the guys refuse to accept those? Another guy..Tim I think...said that he wouldn't ask a girl from the site to take her clothes out. Guys like him U see just once in 100. Trainer said something that really bodered me in way...that i insulted my colleagues...hm.mm..Now I wonder Trainer, with how many girl did u really talk about this job? PF is really more than pv'ts and having money for rent. Why don't u look for a real "respectful friend" of urs that works in this industry, to tell u more about this job.
Whom of all the girls that work in this industry, REALLY ever talked about Pf with u guys..and told how the contracts are made..and how the girls really work?1,,,,2,,,,3?? I think ...none.
And another thing,,..u said something about asking for email addresses. As for me for example, I never gave mine...I just got addresses from all the guys..I used just one...and now I swear I'm sorry for doing that.
PF is just a job that helps u pay ur rent and the rest of things that you need. That's all..u dont make a career in that ..I dont learn anything from that...U just make some money beause most of us are students without money.

To be honest I'm sorry I signed up here..I think I'll quit that after this post..but just ask yourself...with whom did u REALLY talk about PF as a friend? U say U make friends in there? How? In pvt? Just ask urself another question...If u're so in love with the models and vice-versa then why models don't want to meet with u?
And trainer...next time when u post something for me...try to be nicer nstead of being rude ..Everybody can be rude...but not so many can be so nice.
Anyway...have a nice night and kisses

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Regular Newbie

Posts: 16

#5 [url]

Sep 19 08 9:35 PM

For uncle lewis..You are thinking how much money we make...If we didn't have anything against that amount of money we wouldn't sign anything with anybody...We don't make even a dollar for a minute of private...and u as member pay 5 dollars per minute. But if we had such a big problem with the pay...we wouldn't work there.
We are students...yes...we need money yes..but in there we earn more money than a minimum wage salary. That way we can pay for our expenses. Usually the people who works there aren't part of such a rich family..Usually we work there to finish school and to maintain ourselves because most of our parents don't have such good jobs.

And u were talking about pirates.. Well nothing is perfect...and we can't stop them from making movies of us...So? This is a risk we assume. Maybe we don't care about these movies...and maybe we will care about them only when we ll have a normal job..and somebody will see them. Until then we live with it.

And abt the feelings..u said something about this...how many model have u seen really falling in love with somebody? Well the love here starts with western union if I can put it that way..or a pvt. A relationship starts with wanting or not wanting a long pvt..because in free chat u can't develop anything just because u see too many beggars per minute. And until u gain some trust in a person..U have to do privates anyway...I don't want to be mean or something..and I apologize if I offended somebody..but this is the truth as I see it.
Anyway...have a good evening and kisses

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#6 [url]

Sep 19 08 11:40 PM

Thanks for levelling with us Andreea....We appreciate the feedback, really.

I will give you a longer response in another post
- but only after I do my first job here..
which is to act as the forum's Lord High Copy Editor...

No disrespect intended.. only a few of us here are native English Speakers...
but if I do a few edits on your posts your strong voice will only be stonger...

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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#7 [url]

Sep 20 08 12:31 AM

Andreea, no need to run away. Please read this carefully I know it is long. What we are doing now is having a normal discussion about your job. We can speak about anything here, about how we feel, about how you feel., and be truthful about it also.

Well what can I say, would you like the honest truth? Because I have nothing to hide. But I will not say names because that would not be a good thing.
And I will answer your questions.....

First I have spoken with many different models about their job.Sometimes I was having such a bad time in my life but I listened to these women as a friend. I may not agree with them sometimes but I was always there no matter what my problems were or theirs, if they needed to talk. I had some friends there as models.And a few members also. One model even sent me xmas card and I sent one to them.She even sent me pictures of her graduation ceremony from university. And I was proud of her to be able to finish school and work in a normal job. But just like in your country the pay is not as good as in this porn chat. And she still works a few times a week to make ends meet. Now would you call this being a friend? I have been invited 4 times to visit 4 different models. And I said no to all of them for different reasons.

I have spoken to many women that work in your job many times about the job.And I have stopped going private for over 1.5 years now. I also met one model that I never took private at the site you work on, but only once to give her my free credits, I had no use for them and I had no show with them being naked.
I have had what we call serious chat away from your work on a personal chat about your job for many hours with different women that work in your job. Would you prefer that I speak in your language here?

Also I never really gave my email address to girls but they did ask for mine.

Now about your job, Andreea, yes it is a way to pay for your bills, your school, to eat and try to live a decent life.To buy things, like clothes, shoes, whatever. And to say to some of us here that we do not understand your work is like saying we are selfish and do not care.

I have been told many things that I have never said here, and I have written way too much on this forum as it is,lol.

And after all this time, I have come to understand this work so well, that I did not care about myself and cared more for some too much that sit on the other side of this internet connection. It became so bad that I seriously did not care for me, but what was important was to just be good company, or listen to some women speak their inner thoughts. And yes I made some very angry.Because they got insulted or hurt because I dare to say how I feel. And I lost some as friends.

And suprisingly, I got an email from one ex model who was trying to contact me for more than a year, because she thinks of me as a friend.And asked me to be her friend. So should I say no to her? I do not want to see her naked. I learned so much about your work, that for me to see a woman naked there turns me off now. I would rather have a good true conversation about reality and not that silly sexual talk anymore.

I realize that all of you women that work there are more than just an object. You have a life, you have sadness, and happiness. You have boyfriends and friends and husbands. You worry about how you will feed yourself sometimes or pay the rent. And believe it or not, I do now also.

And finally, do you think how hard it is to have what you call a friend there, without going private? I became very close with one model, with not one private and I respected her so much and cared for her very much.I tried to give advice and help but too many bad things happened in each of our lives and it just became too much for me and her. And she probably hates me now, but at least I was real, maybe too real and honest and truthful to believe.And yes Andreea, they asked me to visit them and I said no. And the reason is I could not afford to travel and meet them and asked them if they could be patient and wait. And my life now, is very similar to yours in many ways, just that we live on different parts of this planet and have different jobs,lol. But I could not watch her do this work anymore, and it broke my heart to tell her how I felt about things and her work. And I gave up something special with this person, because of all I have heard and seen and learned, and all my past experiences that affect me to this very day.

So if you do not believe that some of us here can know how you feel or understand your situation you should stop and look carefully again. And do not judge all here and even in your porn work that every person there is looking for what you are selling.And I apologize to you if I seem rude, but that is not what it was meant to be. I am a realist-that is someone that looks at the reality of a situationand life, and not listen to all the lies and bullshit(pardon my language) that does happen everywhere.

Love, hmmm..... I ask myself what that really means when it comes to this work.

A simple question for you Andreea, Can you buy love or friendship? Or is it an emotion that goes beyond what occurs on the site you work on?

Oh btw, I kinda do know how your contracts work also. Your boss is a smart and tricky person, would you not say that to be true?

Thank you for your reply Andreea, I mean you no harm, and some here may even be a help to anyone if they need it.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke(1729-1797)
Irish Philosopher,statesman

�With integrity, nothing else counts. Without integrity, nothing else counts.�

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. � Albert Einstein.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle."


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#8 [url]

Sep 20 08 1:00 PM

Andreea, you asked us to whom did we ever talk "REALLY" about their work-experiences in this job?
Well, quite a lot of people actually who can be grouped both by studio and by web-site - web-sites that you may know such as Adultworks, CamContacts, Direct Sex, ImLive, MyFreeCams, Peeks, PF and Secret Friends among others.

Firstly I should point out that most of the information and documents available on this site were provided by our collaborators from inside the industry - that includes our members who are either free-lance or studio cam-models, administrators from four studios from four different countries; studio and model agency owners and studio translators... People who have been talking to each other - and to us - for nearly two and half years, and who haven't spared us the "nitty gritty" details of studio work or the frank expression of their anger, boredom, depression, frustration and/or their occasional rages. And for every post here, there have been dozens of private side conversations that occurred on Yahoo or MSN. In short, Andreea, there has been lots of talk about the real "cam-girl experience"...most of it pretty direct and some of it painfully honest.

The main thing that allowed us to do our "homework" on this industry was that some cam models who found their way here, decided to trust each other enough to compare notes on what they had been through....So it wasn't about trusting us so much as it was a matter of trusting each other - not an easy thing when you are on the same web-site or in the same studio and competing for the same client's virtual affections and his hard cash. But Andreea, thanks to these model members and some of their male friends, we have been able to create a "Committee of Correspondence" that allowed us to look inside the restricted Models Areas of several Web-Sites as well as to hear "the inside story" on studio management and cam life in studios in cities like Bratislava, Brno, Brisbane, Bucharest, Constanta, Dneniprotovsk, Iasi, Kyif, Odessa, Ostrava, Petrozavodsk, Poprad, Prague, Sao Paulo, Seattle, Sibiu, and St. Petersburg. This forum began with looking at the studios in Romania, Slovakia and the Ukraine and then broadened out its focus of interest. This exchange with our Australian member Bailey, traces our itinerary... http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=882

I can't tell you who our correspondents were - they must remain anonymous - but they included a few admins and models who worked in your own studio at one time or another. As you can see from our posts on sniper, we also have created a network of informants inside the pirate forums as well. Of course, this industry is a "revolving door" and models come and go.. and that is true for their participation on this web-forum as well. It has it's ups and downs - especially right now..lol But some of our correspondents have stuck with us for several years and regularly check in to catch up on the news or to chat with old colleagues and friends.

Why don't you take a look at the dozen company documents from Peeks, ImLive or Private Feeds that are posted in the "Sexual Tourism - Virtual and Real" area - especially the models rules and handbooks like this one from F4f.

If you poke around you will also find the DHL Models Release Form and their Model Recruitment Advertisements, and a detailed discussion of their hidden legal implications.

There's a Russian article from Gubernya that explains the legal snares that are hidden from the naive new models when they sign English Language contracts they don't understand...

Needless to say, I have heard quite a bit about the contractual commitments that models have made to your studio management in particular - and what it has cost people who dared to break them. But I stand ready to hear more because the accounts on how that plays out are often contradictory. In the meantime, here's one model's story as it was told in a Student Newspaper in Bucharest last Fall:

Why not also take a look at what our model members had to say about their "Cam Experiences" or their exchanges about their different studios, stalkers and web-sites in Models2Models. We have learned a lot from their testimony, and from our involvement in some very sharp exchanges with our model members over what it meant.

Take a look at Giggle's "Hey Guys Over Here" for just one example.

But as a result of this "learning community" where we were all able to teach each other something, I believe that we have made some progress in exposing some of the hard realities that characterize this virtual form of sexual commerce. As one of the PF Benices said on her personal blog last winter, if an outsider to this industry wanted a tour of the "dark side of the cam world," they could find no better guides than Uncle Lewis and Slider. I was flattered but know that however much that reflects our own online research, it mainly reflects the courage, generosity and honesty of all the models who have shared their experiences and studio information with us; who have done their own research on the studios and web-sites they worked for, and who never failed to challenge us when we were arrogant or self-righteous about our assumptions or our opinions. So Delfina, Gabby, Gigges and Sweet October, aour model moderators, have all pinned my ears to the wall countless times in our exchanges.

Do I need to add Andreea that none of these model members would have really trusted us to treat them as equals, if they had thought that the male admins or senior members here were still sneaking off onto web-sites to take other models private and command a sex show for their own viewing pleasure? There are certain requests that open mental doors and others that close them for good. And telling some cam model to get naked and then to "spread4U" is what I call a permanent "deal breaker." You are quite right to say that you really can't treat someone as your personal sex slave and then turn around and expect that model to respect or trust you afterwards - however much she may want your money. So most of us here simply don't do that kind of private session anymore. As one of our male members Wally, observed here long ago, if you want to have a "non-commercial relationship" with a cam model, then the only way to go is never to begin one.
You can read one of our many exchanges on the theme of "Prv'ts Vs Non Priv't" here: http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=794

Just a sample of the endless debates that have gone here about "feeding the system" versus "feeding the model" and you will see that models and members on this forum have been going over this ground for years.. but I think in the final analysis that "you really can't have your cake and eat it too." You have to choose what it is that you really value about the models you meet.

Anyway Andreea, I hope that you will stick with us a little longer and give us another chance....Clearly you have a lot to say about your country, your studio and about this industry. And we are more than ready to listen, because what we value most about our model members is their intelligence, and their common sense and honesty.

Thanks for listening to this long rant.


I enclose a Photo of the Welcome Desk of a Studio in Iasi - this was taken from a studio web-site advertising this job to cam models.
Click here to view the attachment

"I would no more be a Master than a slave. It does not conform to my idea of Democracy." Abraham Lincoln 1856.

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